The VFF Test is On!

But just so happens I detected the missing kidney! What am I supposed to do about that?


Well, since you ask, maybe you should take a legitimately scientific approach for once? You've been offered much help, great suggestions from many members of this forum, and you've been quick to reject pretty much every suggestion that rigorously applies the scientific method. Back your lame arguments with a heavy dose of reality instead of repetition.

What should you do? Do what an actual honest science student would do. Acknowledge rather than deny the mundane, common explanations for why you believe you have some kind of supernatural powers. Then work vigorously to eliminate them as causes for your belief that those magical powers are real.
 
Maybe I should take a break from you all until after the IIG Preliminary? I don't think we have anything else to talk about until then. Would everyone be ok with that? I also need to start preparing. I am already practicing by looking at people's kidneys a lot more.
 
Third time for this post.
VisionFromFeeling asked me a question which I answered.
Originally Posted by pakeha
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionFromFeeling

...As for the attempted migraine healing, why are you arguing when I want to test that claim? And of course I am going to find out whether California laws permit me to do this. How else can I falsify that claim if not by attempting the treatment with a Skeptic who has migraines? Tell me how.


First and most importantly, all legal implications should have been thoroughly investigated even before making the offer. I write this in all seriousness.
Secondly, in my opinion, any att. treatments should be done under the supervision of a licensed physician. Plan on long-term study, over years.
Thirdly, centre on the IIG informal demonstration 21 November. Leave the att. treatments for another occasion; remember the lesson of the Ogilvie third 'test'. Then check out the man's home page and fanclub to see why
the alarm bells ring when a similar pattern seems to be forming.

All the best on the 21st!

A wise call on the part of VisionFromFeeling to stop posting here, since it's becoming very clear how the lady reacts to any questioning of her chosen path.
All so similar to mr Ogilvie, it's astonishing, in my opinion, the resemblances between the two of them.
 
Farencue, I chose not to write down that I detected the missing left kidney.
My goodness.
A comment like this almost makes it seem like you tried to cheat - but surely not!
I mean, detecting it, then making a concious decision not to declare it would make some people feel that had Dr Carlson not been missing any kidney, that you'd have stood by what you choseto write down. And that what you wrote down, was playing the odds.

What if he had not been missing a kidney? Would you have called the test a success?
 
I would also like to express my skepticism that the test will never taken place. In the very least, on the off chance that it does, Anita will make up excuses when she fails.
 
Maybe I should take a break from you all until after the IIG Preliminary? I don't think we have anything else to talk about until then. Would everyone be ok with that? I also need to start preparing. I am already practicing by looking at people's kidneys a lot more.


The thread was started by Sezme.

You have contributed 54 posts, of questionable value, out of the total 284.

We, being the other 2,923 active members of the Forum, do, indeed, have things to talk about that we can manage on our own.


Yes, we'll be OK, thanks.


The arrogance of your post above is blinding.
 
My claim is not magical x-ray vision, but that when I look at people I see images in my mind that depict internal organs and health . . .


Errr... do you want to rephrase that?!


But just so happens I detected the missing kidney! What am I supposed to do about that? Only 20 days until the Preliminary.


What you are supposed to do is consider rephrasing what you said, which was basically:

"I'm not claiming magical x-ray vision, just ordinary, everyday x-ray vision."​

Which is EXACTLY what you've been doing since day 1.
 
Don't be sorry. Be scientific. I'll remind you again that this is a skeptics' forum, and your argument appears, for all practical purposes, to be completely bogus. Until you get that professional assessment, done by someone with the necessary expertise to make a proper determination, your claim that you have a clear and true memory of the incident carries virtually no weight.

Just to interject: I'm not sure a 'professional assessment' would be all that useful in this matter. It is my understanding that there is simply no way, other than external verification, to tell a false or confabulated memory from a true one.
 
Maybe I should take a break from you all until after the IIG Preliminary? I don't think we have anything else to talk about until then. Would everyone be ok with that? I also need to start preparing. I am already practicing by looking at people's kidneys a lot more.

I think we have lots to talk about. I'd like to talk about the scientific research that shows beyond a doubt that just because someone "really, really" believes something happened, their memories can still be false. And the research that shows that this is more likely to be true if the individual has an emotional / egotistical connection to the memory at hand.

Why don't you want to talk about that? I've posted plenty of links. Did you read them? How do you think they reflect on your claim that you are "certain" your memories are not confabulated?

In terms of the IIG test, I think you will be wasting your time if, should it fail, you continue to assert that you "really really" can see kidneys inside people. However you spin it, that is "magical x-ray vision", and if the IIG test is not sufficient to dissuade you that you have magic powers, either it is not a good test, or you are not an objectively-minded subject (or both, of course).
 
Here's the youtube for the first part of mr Ogilvie's testing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziUN1jAm3Jg

Part two illustrates how well the man's gift functioned when allowed, in the third test, to give his undoubted talents for cold reading any scope whatsoever.

That said, I'm glad the test is very nearly upon us.
Is there any chance of live streaming?

This is a fascinating video. The parallels are interesting. They really, really are.

I expect that the IIG experience might be very similar. They will probably be polite, but it might feel cold. That certainly made Mr. Ogilvie jittery. It might make me nervous even if I were absolutely sure of whatever my claimed power was. I don't know how one prepares for that experience.

Ward
 
Maybe I should take a break from you all until after the IIG Preliminary? I don't think we have anything else to talk about until then. Would everyone be ok with that? I also need to start preparing. I am already practicing by looking at people's kidneys a lot more.
I, for one, will be impressed if you are willing to post here after the test and address all these issues. Most paranormal claimants simply dissappear, or make a brief post to deliver their excuses.
 
I, for one, will be impressed if you are willing to post here after the test and address all these issues. Most paranormal claimants simply disappear, or make a brief post to deliver their excuses.


You aren't alone in speculating about what will happen after the big event.


Unca Yimmy @ SVfF said:
What is Your Concession Speech?

So, Anita, you've said several times that you don't expect to pass the informal demonstration (strange attitude to have, but whatever), so you must be working on your concession speech. You say it will "falsify" your medical perception claims. Besides the fact that they are already false (unproven), what does that really mean?

For example, you have told us countless times that you "really did" detect Dr. Carlson's missing kidney. What will you say about it now? Will you said that you really, really, did NOT detect his missing kidney? Will you say that you THOUGHT you did, but you were wrong?

What other specific claims will be falsified? How about the induced information tests? Seeing bacteria and concocting cures? Since you used Vibrational Algebra to do it, will you then admit that there is no such thing?

What about curing migraines? After all, part of the process involves seeing dark areas in someone's brain to see where to apply the treatment. If you're not seeing the ailment (it's a "falsified medical claim", then the cure must be bunk as well.

Once you fail (and you will), how will you go about explaining the "apparent accuracy" you have experienced? If they are not lies, then what was at work? The reason we consider your odyssey to be so ridiculous is that you have failed to investigate the ordinary explanations first and proceeded right to the least likely and most incredibly unscientific explanation. Will you proceed to examine those anecdotes with a skeptical eye and look for the mundane explanations we have given you?

Link
 
This is a fascinating video. The parallels are interesting. They really, really are.

I expect that the IIG experience might be very similar. They will probably be polite, but it might feel cold. That certainly made Mr. Ogilvie jittery. It might make me nervous even if I were absolutely sure of whatever my claimed power was. I don't know how one prepares for that experience.

Ward

Then it gets interesting when you read the different analyses on the 'Ogilvie' experience.
The phrase "I'm a failure, not a fraud" is taken apart at UK Skeptics, BadPsychics and so on. Even mainstream media had a field day with mr Ogilvie.

However, this has't prevented mr Ogilvie from having a career which continues to this day. Have you seen the man's fanclub?

Along the same lines, I followed the career of a UK 'medium' who was debunked by the Amazing on UK tele some years back. As of this last summer (2009) the woman was apparently giving readings and classes and workshops. :eye-poppi

Why does this relate to VisionFromFeeling and the upcoming 21 November event?
Because the lady also claims to have seen and communicated with ghosts. Claim which has been debunked, meticulously.
As I consider the matter, even the supposed dr Carlson 'missing kidney' sighting reads more like a psychic's explanation of a miss in a cold reading than anything else.

And then there are those tell-tale att. treatments which the lady has tried to tie into the IIG demonstration. Sin comentario. Except to ask, how you can take seriously a person who hasn't investigated the legality of a treatment, even an att. treatment, before proposing it to an unknown person?
And especially choosing migraines for att. treatment.

In any case, 19 days to go.
 
Thank you for raising your concerns, although I feel that they are mostly based on prejudice from how other paranormal claimants have behaved in the past and do not apply to me personally. You are speculating about what kind of person I am and what I will do with my claims. Paranormal claims can be harmful when used carelessly or to exploit people, but if they are in the hands of a responsible person there is no need for concern. As a chemistry student I can safely handle dangerous chemicals, but someone else might cause harm to themselves or others. It all depends on who you are and how you handle what you have.

I am prepared to fail the IIG Preliminary because that way if or when I do fail, it will not come as a surprise or even a disappointment. Also because in the end I do believe in science and what I have done should not be possible. Even though I did it. If the media or Skeptics decide to have a field day with that then I grant you that. It is fun to see science and skepticism triumph and I am sure that's always a reason for celebration. I hope I make it to The Soup. They know how to make fun of people.

I will not have a career in woo. I am a science student and headed toward a career in science. I maintain a clear distinction between what are my personal experiences, and what is practice of science. Science is based on objective, mutually agreeable fact, and has no place for my personal experiences of colors, shapes, medical perceptions, or emotions. Some of you like to say that my paranormal investigation might have ruined my reputation and future career, but I doubt that. The claims are all based on personal experiences and I have investigated those in the name of scientific curiosity. It has also been an interesting social experiment to observe what is involved in a paranormal claim and its investigation.

I have no fan club of any sort. Sometimes a woo will write to me to engage in talk about how bad Skeptics are or how wonderful us woos are, but I always explain that I consider myself a Skeptic and that my claims have not been verified and are likely to be falsified, and that takes the fun out of it for them and I do not hear from them again. I don't need a fan club, what I am doing is intended to be a contribution to Skepticism, not to the paranormal.

Unfortunately I did detect the missing kidney but I chose to not write it down. That is the truth of it, and it is not a false memory. I strongly dislike the accusations of mental illness or being called a liar and I would never fabricate this story to endure all of this. I am honestly describing an experience that should not have been possible and that is why this is a paranormal claim.

You fail to see what the migraine treatment claim is, where it comes from, or what I am doing with it. The claim is made by the man whom I attempted to treat. He claims a dramatic improvement, and so I am interested in investigating that claim this time with a Skeptic. The goal is to falsify that claim and to provide a documented example of a falsified healing claim.

The fact that some of you expect me to be a typical woo and you make false accusations that you hold full belief in, takes something away from you as Skeptics, because your personal expectations are clouding your ability to be objective and to see the truth. So, in a sense, you are merely expressing what are your personal opinions and hoping that by calling yourselves Skeptics you gain exclusive rights to have your opinions regarded more highly. That is just like being a woo, you are making claims that are not true and that have not been proven. You make predictions on my character and my behavior, and that, in itself, is a paranormal claim and I urge you all to apply to the JREF MDC with that claim.

Only 17 days left!
 
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The fact that some of you expect me to be a typical woo and you make false accusations that you hold full belief in, takes something away from you as Skeptics, because your personal expectations are clouding your ability to be objective and to see the truth. So, in a sense, you are merely expressing what are your personal opinions and hoping that by calling yourselves Skeptics you gain exclusive rights to have your opinions regarded more highly. That is just like being a woo, you are making claims that are not true and that have not been proven. You make predictions on my character and my behavior, and that, in itself, is a paranormal claim and I urge you all to apply to the JREF MDC.

Only 17 days left!

Woo SOP: "Skeptics are good skeptics for not believing in woo...until they don't believe in my woo, and that's because they are bad skeptics."

We expect you to be a "typical woo" because you are one.

Yawn. Next paranormal claimant, please.
 
Unfortunately I did detect the missing kidney but I chose to not write it down. That is the truth of it, and it is not a false memory.

How on Earth do you know? Serious question, posed to you already, but never answered. As the literature I linked to shows, the sincerity, clarity or vividness of the memory has no correlation with its veracity.

Please acknowledge you have read and understood the links I posted regarding how the human memory works. Please also acknowledge that a failure in the IIG test will strongly suggest that your previous "certain memory" of having detected the kidney is false.
 
Thank you for raising your concerns, although I feel that they are mostly based on prejudice from how other paranormal claimants have behaved in the past and do not apply to me personally. You are speculating about what kind of person I am and what I will do with my claims. Paranormal claims can be harmful when used carelessly or to exploit people, but if they are in the hands of a responsible person there is no need for concern. As a chemistry student I can safely handle dangerous chemicals, but someone else might cause harm to themselves or others. It all depends on who you are and how you handle what you have.


All speculation as to your possible responses when you fail the demonstration, or speculation on whether you will even carry through with the demonstration, come from your 1000+ postings right here on the JREF forum, your own comments at your web site, and comments you've posted at the stopvisionfromfeeling.com forum. It has nothing to do with other frauds, liars, and paranormal claimants who have come before you. Any concern for your blatant disregard for responsibility and normal safety concerns when engaging in scientific studies of a medical nature is due to your own history. Your argument above is a bunch of crap.

The fact that some of you expect me to be a typical woo and you make false accusations that you hold full belief in, takes something away from you as Skeptics, because your personal expectations are clouding your ability to be objective and to see the truth. So, in a sense, you are merely expressing what are your personal opinions and hoping that by calling yourselves Skeptics you gain exclusive rights to have your opinions regarded more highly. That is just like being a woo, you are making claims that are not true and that have not been proven. You make predictions on my character and my behavior, and that, in itself, is a paranormal claim and I urge you all to apply to the JREF MDC with that claim.


Again your argument above is a bunch of crap. At your own request we have applied our skepticism...

Feel free to apply skepticism and call me a liar and a fraud.


Seems a little disingenuous of you to invite us to apply our skepticism, then to get all bent out of shape about it when we come to a consensus conclusion that you're a liar and a fraud.
 

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