The VFF Test is On!

Again, what is paranormal about guessing which person in a group of six, is missing a kidney, when you know up front that one of them is missing a kidney ?


Yes. Once upon a time I suggested that the test subjects for each round be drawn randomly from a pool of candidates, some with two kidneys and some with only one, and that in each round there might be zero or more people with a kidney missing. But Anita rejected every such rational, sane suggestion. She never really did want to find out that her claims were bogus. Don't forget, we're talking about someone who said, in all seriousness...

I won't agree to test conditions under which my claim fails.
 
I do see what you mean. However, it does seem as if something would have been at least worth following up on if, say, more subjects were involved (maybe enough so that there were 10 trials instead of 3), and Anita had then correctly identified every person who was missing a kidney without necessarily picking all the correct sides.

Why would that be worth following up on?

Choosing which person is missing a kidney without being able to identify which side does not support her claim.

Are you suggesting there is some other paranormal power going on? She has never claimed another power--one that lets her determine a person is missing a kidney without her being able to see which kidney is missing.

As I mentioned, the test also wasn't designed to see if Anita could levitate, so do you now think it worthwhile to investigate whether she has the power to levitate even though she has never made that claim either?
 


Oh psychic day! I wonder how we'll split the million bucks. Many of us predicted that she would be full of excuses and rationalizations. Many of us predicted that she'd continue to cling to her delusion that she actually can see missing kidneys and all sorts of other crap. And we were right! That Randi prize is ours. :)
 
Perhaps they DID check everyone's kidney count ahead of time.
No, they didn't.Why am I so certain? Because they stated that nobody who was selected knew what organ was supposed to be missing. Therefore not only did they not physically check, they also did not find out verbally from each person if they were missing a kidney - as I earlier assumed they had.

They must have known it was a possibility that one of the subjects might be unaware that they were born without a kidney.
So they should have allowed for it in the protocol and covered it.

Maybe they decided it wasn't worth the hassle to check,
Poor protocol design.

but they would have given her a hit if she found it. At that point, the odds would have been recalculated since she had two targets in that particular group.
but for now it appears that we will never knnow what her actual odds actually were. If you don;t find that a problem, fair enough.I thinkn it's shoddy at best.

This is a group of volunteers, not a multi-million dollar research facility, right? When I think of the volunteer groups that I know of, I can't think of many that could pull something like this off.
So? Shouldn't they still have done it correctly? It would have cost them nothing to allow a few selected members here to review and coment on the protocol. They already had the equipment there to test up to 6 people at the test - why not check everyone else even if after the event is over? Why leave a gaping hole in the statisticals analysis of what they tried to achieve?
 

Surprise! She doesn't admit that she has no paranormal power, as she had promised. She also doesn't accept that her claim was falsified.

She also claims that she knew the accuracy of her answers before hand. Not only is that irrelevant to her claim (she never claimed that she would only be right some of the time and be able to say which times those were--remember, that's why she agreed that she shouldn't be allowed to "pass"), it's also a lie.

She said things like "round 2 went well" or better than round 1, and that she was tired on round 3, but she never did state that she would be right on 1 round of the 3. In fact, she has repeatedly claimed that she is accurate all the time.

Yup--she's clearly a fraud and a liar.
 

From Anita's web page:

I do find it interesting and highly worthy of mention, that when ever I make a medical perception that is based on something that I feel or see that I am confident in, it has a very high if not perfect accuracy. I do not recall a single case where I would have reported an answer with full confidence and it would have been incorrect. Similarly, when I am wrong, I know that I am wrong. And this confidence comes in advance, before I find out the correct answer, and so any suggestions that this might be the case of false memory is in vain. I thoroughly shared my confidence with three very credible persons, Karen, James Underdown, and Mark Edwards.
Does the fact that I was perfect at knowing the accuracy of my answers beforehand, or as I gave them, grant me any kind of incentive to proceed with this investigation? Of course it does. I have already known that I am unable to perceive every health information that is known to exist in a person. For instance, of course everyone has at least one kidney, but in several of the subjects in this demonstration, it still took me a long time to perceive either of theirs.

Now Anita wants an elephant stamp for being able to predict when she is right and when she is wrong.

Norm
 
Surprise! She doesn't admit that she has no paranormal power, as she had promised. She also doesn't accept that her claim was falsified.

She also claims that she knew the accuracy of her answers before hand. Not only is that irrelevant to her claim (she never claimed that she would only be right some of the time and be able to say which times those were--remember, that's why she agreed that she shouldn't be allowed to "pass"), it's also a lie.

She said things like "round 2 went well" or better than round 1, and that she was tired on round 3, but she never did state that she would be right on 1 round of the 3. In fact, she has repeatedly claimed that she is accurate all the time.

Yup--she's clearly a fraud and a liar.


Yes. She's even titled that article, "Preliminary Demonstration of November 2009 - attempting to detect which of persons is missing a kidney".

That is a flat out lie.
 
From http://www.visionfromfeeling.com/paranormaltest.html:
Does the fact that I was perfect at knowing the accuracy of my answers beforehand, or as I gave them, grant me any kind of incentive to proceed with this investigation? Of course it does.

Dang! I had such high hopes for that girl. Just once shouldn't there be someone who looks at the results and understands what they mean? Can't we have just one little psychic who doesn't immediately turn around and insult the people who were kind enough to take them seriously? Just once? How about half a time? They can get the right answer (No super-powers) but the wrong reason.

Not that I am entirely surprised. What I saw on that stage was a girl who is so wrapped up in her own nonsense that she hasn't got anything else. It will take a long dark night of the soul for her to let go of VFF and embrace the person who is merely Anita Ikonen.
 
having been through it myself I can attest that it is not an easy process, and certainly can't happen overight. It is painful and embarrassing... cripplingly so at times.

However ... coming out the other side makes the entire thing worthwhile and I honestly hope for her sake that Anita gives decent consideration to the words of people here and realises the truth of the matter.
 
bookitty said:
What I saw on that stage was a girl who is so wrapped up in her own nonsense that she hasn't got anything else.

Same here.

It will take a long dark night of the soul for her to let go of VFF and embrace the person who is merely Anita Ikonen.
having been through it myself I can attest that it is not an easy process, and certainly can't happen overight. It is painful and embarrassing... cripplingly so at times.

Yes.

However ... coming out the other side makes the entire thing worthwhile and I honestly hope for her sake that Anita gives decent consideration to the words of people here and realises the truth of the matter.
I hope that as well. I don't expect it, but I hope it.
 
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Surprise! She doesn't admit that she has no paranormal power, as she had promised. She also doesn't accept that her claim was falsified.

She also claims that she knew the accuracy of her answers before hand. Not only is that irrelevant to her claim (she never claimed that she would only be right some of the time and be able to say which times those were--remember, that's why she agreed that she shouldn't be allowed to "pass"), it's also a lie.

She said things like "round 2 went well" or better than round 1, and that she was tired on round 3, but she never did state that she would be right on 1 round of the 3. In fact, she has repeatedly claimed that she is accurate all the time.

Yup--she's clearly a fraud and a liar.

QFT (bolding mine)
 
having been through it myself I can attest that it is not an easy process, and certainly can't happen overight. It is painful and embarrassing... cripplingly so at times.

However ... coming out the other side makes the entire thing worthwhile and I honestly hope for her sake that Anita gives decent consideration to the words of people here and realises the truth of the matter.

Well said. I can only add that nothing is set in stone. It is still possible for her to discuss these results with the people here and come to a different conclusion.

Her thoughts on the matter seem to be "It was very nice being the center of attention and I would quite like to do it again sometime." Perhaps after she realizes that there is zero possibility of a rematch, she will be more open to examining the experience critically.
 
Originally Posted by wardenclyffe:
Perhaps they DID check everyone's kidney count ahead of time.

No, they didn't.Why am I so certain? Because they stated that nobody who was selected knew what organ was supposed to be missing. Therefore not only did they not physically check, they also did not find out verbally from each person if they were missing a kidney - as I earlier assumed they had.

They could easily have found out from each person verbally simply by asking if they'd had any organs removed at all ever.

If they were to physically check with the machine, that might reveal too much information to the subjects.

Depending on how they did this, they might have weighed the advantages of blinding the test-subjects against that one in seven hundred whatever chance that someone was born without a kidney and didn't know it.

Ward
 
From her website:

Before beginning the demonstration, I was backstage behind the screen with James Underdown, and I told him that I had decided that if I were unable to form a conclusion as to who is missing a kidney, that I would rather pass on that trial than to guess, so that I would thereby be depicting what the perceptions are, rather than taking part in a guessing competition. However, I ended up not honoring that decision.

Gee, that sounds familiar......
 
Before the test:

I have also been looking more into people's backs, confirming to myself whether I feel their kidneys and how quickly and how.

After the test:

Steve of course asked me why would an ability not work always. I said that I believe it is because each body is different. In some people, I have very easy to find their kidneys right away, and in others, it is more difficult.
 
IIG Preliminary

Hi everyone, I have not been able to read all of the posts here since my Preliminary demonstration, and I apologize if I won't answer to all of the questions and comments immediately. I have also promised to dear Jim Newman of the IIG that I won't post as many wall of texts, because this poor man, believe it or not, has actually read through everything I have written for the past year on the internet as VisionFromFeeling! I told the IIG that that in itself should qualify as a paranormal claim.

For those that enjoy an added perspective to the Preliminary, I will be typing up information about all of the things that took place backstage and behind screen and in between trials during the breaks.

I had a wonderful visit in Hollywood, Los Angeles, although I was there purely for the demonstration and did not have the chance for much touristing. All of the IIG members were very nice and it was wonderful to finally meet everyone.

Let me give you all just a few glimpses of some of the things I'd like to type up later on about the Preliminary. Things that were not seen on camera, or that perhaps haven't been revealed yet.

I was picked up about an hour late. I called Steve Muscarella and he said that the reason was they were having a problem with one of the clocks. What you shouldn't know, is that at one point while I was waiting I dropped all of the test papers that were in my hand and they spread all across the hotel lobby floor, and I was picking them up very quickly and worried that they would pull up and film me just as I was on the floor picking up papers. But luckily I still had longer to wait so no one would have known unless I wouldn't have just told you.

When they pulled up, I got in the car and James Underdown was driving. Steve Muscarella was sitting next to James and was filming, and IIG member Karen, who would be my follower throughout the test was in the back seat with me. They welcomed me to Los Angeles and were really nice. The arrival was filmed by Steve and will be made into some film later on.

We spent some time backstage at the theater and James Underdown checked me for any devices with a metal detector and even had to check my ears. Of course I had nothing such on me. I left my high heeled shoes backstage to be more comfortable, but didn't think anyone would notice, but people did.

Steve arrived again with the camera and we actually had to stage the metal detector process again for show, so what you will see on camera is actually a repeat since we already did that once.

I was very nervous backstage and I almost asked someone to give me a hug. I signed all the paperwork there, and asked that we review the procedure on stage and behind the screen, so we did that.

They had the hardest time fitting the microphone box on my dress. It kept falling off. James tried to attach it at first and then Mark Edwards figured it out and they had to attach it to the back of my dress with paperclips.

I did not know who Mark Edwards really was (a famous and talented mentalist and good skeptical observer) until at the very end of the test backstage again.

I told James that I had decided that if I were unable to conclude on an answer in a trial, that I would make that trial a pass, rather than to guess, so to better represent what my predictions are and not make it into a guessing game. He said I could do either way. I later turned out not honoring that decision.

At first when I saw the audience, there were very few people sitting there. I said that I had been nervous but the audience was small after all, but then was told that most of the audience was in fact still waiting to be let in.

I ended up actually not being nervous about the setting or the cameras or the people watching me. There were several persons watching me very carefully from every angle. Joe, and others, were sitting against the far wall facing the subjects on the other side, and Mark Edwards was actually watching me very closely and I did not realize who he was or why he was watching so carefully until afterwards when he told me who he was.

I knew that my answer from trial 1 would be incorrect, and after the trial was over and the subjects had left, and the microphones were off, I told Karen, James Underdown, and Mark Edwards all about that.

Similarly, I also knew that trial 2 would be correct, and that trial 3 would be incorrect, and shared that with IIG members.

I was very close to raising my hand at the beginning of trial 3, to announce that I was unable to complete this trial. I was feeling very exhausted and had the notorious "headache and nausea" that I've been talking about in the past, however, I just leaned back and took a deep breath and decided to continue and do my best.

I confided a lot in Karen in between trials. I would have wanted to have all of our conversation recorded and regretted that it wouldn't be. Just because it is better protocol to do so, because that way I can't claim to have said anything that I didn't say, or there be other issues with what I might have said.

I knew that people at home on the internet would be making rude comments about my weight. Call it psychic intuition, or just plain intuition. And I honestly don't mind, I agree that I am a bit chubby, but it's all the good food in the United States. I am not insulted by it one bit. I just think it is unnecessary and irrelevant to the test.

Before beginning the ultrasound section, the ultrasound technician Michele Ray was showing me her kidney and that is what we were discussing.

I would have asked to see my kidneys, only that I would have had to pull up my dress, and so I regretted that. I was very tempted to get to see my kidneys on the screen.

I knew that I was going to fail the test. My body language is very clear about that just before the ultrasound is about to begin.

Ever since I had submitted my answers, James Underdown would not speak another word to me or look at me again for the rest of the day and thereafter. I can understand that, from a skeptical point of view. I am the woo.

I was not sad to be incorrect in trials 1 and 3. I was happy that the test had been conducted to a standard that was well beyond my expectations and that the results were credible and reliable.

Several IIG members let me know that they had given me every chance to succeed and that they would have wanted me to succeed if I had such an ability. So much for all those woos who think the tests are set up for claimants to fail, since that is definitely not the case. I failed entirely by my own means, and the IIG was not responsible for my results one way or the other, and it is a good feeling knowing that.

When the man from the audience started talking about how when you feel you are about to have a hole-in-one in golf that is when it happens, I was actually disagreeing with him, and I actually agreed with what James Underdown was saying about it. So much for being an unskeptical woo.

I was happy to hear that Dr. Carlson was in the internet audience and said hello to him when I found out.

I had a feeling that the IIG were filtering out to search for only some of the most positive of the comments and questions for me.

I was highly surprised that no one who was present in the theatre made a big deal about either of the results, whether I was correct or incorrect, IIG members were fully impersonal toward the results. I was trying to do the same.

I only brought a bottle of water with me and other than breakfast, I had nothing at all to eat or drink besides water for the whole time. The test ended at about 5:00pm. As the ultrasound section was being set up, I actually popped backstage behind the audience and met some more IIG members that I recognized. I was offered food, but declined because I was anticipating the results section.

As soon as I had explained that my thoughts on the results were inconclusive and that I did not know how to conclude, the mood of several IIG members dropped. Especially James and Steve. But understandably.

Joe in the audience said that based on his observations on the fidgeting of subjects, he would have guessed the right person in trials 1 and 2, but not in trial 3, even though he would not have known how to guess between left and right kidney. I took this comment to be the most valuable experience I have taken with me from the test. However afterwards I found out that he was actually sitting some two feet from the row of subjects, behind the subjects, facing them and having access to plenty more cold reading than I and at a closer distance.

Backstage again I thanked him for his comment. I thought it was valuable information for my investigation.

After the test and the filming had stopped, SezMe came up toward the stage and talked to James and the others. I actually thanked SezMe for being nice to me on the JREF Forums and reached over and gave him a hug. He is adorable.

If I remember correctly, no one else at the IIG received a hug from me. But Spencer gave me a hug. Spencer wore a shirt with the text Wrangler written on it. He was in charge of getting together all the subjects to and from each trial. He did not get to meet me until after the test was concluded on. He said he had put over 100 working hours into getting all the people together. I apologized and thanked him, and he said he didn't mind the work and that he had chosen to do it.

Mark Edwards was really nice to me throughout. He is the one who listened to me the very most, although I did not know at the time that he was paying attention to what I was doing for a reason.

Everyone at the IIG put in a great deal of work into putting together the Preliminary. I apologized a lot, and thanked them, but they said they did not mind and that no one had done any work that they hadn't chosen to do. They had to say it a few times before I could stop feeling guilty about it.

When we were backstage again, I had to ask them what Wrangler meant when I saw it written on Spencer's shirt and Jim Newman said it had to do with herding cows.

Mark Edwards then revealed to me that he is a mentalist, and what he works with and that he was the only one who got to interview Connie Sonne after her test. I of course asked Mr. Edwards to demonstrate a trick for me. He asked me to think of a number between 1 and 1000, and then he wrote a number down on a businesscard. He then asked me to say the number, and turned his card over, and it was the same number as I had said. At first I was amazed, and I asked IIG members how he had done that. No one wanted to tell me his trick, but I actually figured it out in a while. I figured that he had only pretended to write down the number the first time, and had then quickly written it down when I said it, without appearing to move his hand, which is evident by that the numbers were sloppy written. I still have that businesscard from him with the number written on the back. My number was 256.

Jim Newman admitted that he has read everything I have written on the internet as VFF. All the threads on JREF, on the British Skeptic Forum, on stopvisionfromfeeling, and my website. I apologized to him and promised that I would write fewer walls of texts, and explained that they come about when there are 20 people asking me questions, and only one of me.

Before entering the stage to have the test, I was interviewed by IIG member psychologist John Suarez. I then had a follow-up interview with him after the test, which is on the video. After the test again, backstage, Steve made his own interview with me. Steve basically asked the same question three or four times: "will I become a practicing psychic?" I answered to that same question from a different perspective every time, and eventually reminded him that he had already asked the question already.

Jim Newman is concerned for my mental well-being, even though my perceptions do not come with a sense of reality. And Steve Muscarella later called me the day after and raised hell on the phone for two hours about how I would become the next practicing psychic and for allegedly offering healing treatments to people. It was awkward and a bit uncomfortable, because these concerns are based on misunderstanding of what I am doing with this investigation and they are acting on their worst expectations that become real in their minds. Now is that delusional?

Overall the IIG was very nice, and I do not understand paranormal claimants who have nothing but complaints about their test process. I don't have a single complaint, and am very grateful for all the work that was put in by everyone.

Unfortunately, I knew that trials 1 and 3 were incorrect when I reported those answers, and that trial 2 was correct, and I think that my performance was good enough to warrant more testing. This time, I would require more elaborate screens, so that no one can try to explain accurate "guesses" on tattoos on arms, clothing, hair, etc. and also so that I can better concentrate on the kidney area. I do not need the promise of being verified as a psychic, or being awarded a cash prize, all I am interested in is having more experience with it and learning more about it.

I do not expect there to be any paranormal explanation. I do think that I might be doing unintentional and automatic cold reading of some external symptoms, that translate on their own through synesthesia into corresponding feeling and images, and that that is nothing paranormal at all.

I would love to hear from the audience, how many correct guesses (correct person and correct kidney) you had, and also why you would have made those choices. Of course you did not have the advantage of being as close to the subjects as I was, but I would still like to hear your thoughts.

Do look out for another test of kidney detection up ahead, but do not worry, I will not bother the IIG, the JREF, or the local FACT Skeptics with this. There are plenty of one-kidney subjects in the world, and something less formal, and with an actually even stricter testing protocol, can be arranged. I do not expect it to pass me as a psychic, or to entitle me to any cash prize, I only want to experience more cases and more data.

I do feel that my results from the IIG Preliminary first of all obviously did not qualify me to proceed to their formal test, but meanwhile I am unable to conclude the claim as entirely falsified or meaningless just yet. If I encounter more cases of inaccuracy, I will be better able to conclude that way. I would honestly rather have had three incorrect trials and to falsify the claim, than something like what we have that is somewhere in between and it is difficult to know what to make of it. Especially since I knew 1 and 3 would be wrong, and 2 would be correct.

I embrace the incorrect results from trial 1 and 3 just as well as I do the accuracy of trial 2. And I still maintain that I detected Dr. Carlson's missing kidney and that it is the same as what trial 2 was in the Preliminary.

You will never see me becoming a practicing psychic. I will never share what are my personal, subjective impressions of health to other people outside of this investigation. I might still investigate the migraine healing claim, if I can find volunteers for it and if it is legal to conduct such a study, mainly only to falsify the claim made by the man whom I attempted to treat.

I have done none of this for attention to myself. I do not mind attention to the topics of paranormal claims and paranormal investigation, because those are fascinating topics and few who make those claims fully allow insight into what it is all about. I regret that that has opened me up for a lot of criticism and personal attack, but I feel that I made the right choice anyway.

No matter how strongly some of you suspect that my goals are to become a practicing woo, my motives have actually been to investigate an experience that I was unable to explain on my own or to dismiss simply as false memories, lies, or delusion. I think I have showed on the Preliminary some of what is going on, by having the right person in two out of three trials. And I hope that my work will be a contribution to skepticism.

Look out for another kidney detection test up ahead, but no time soon.

Thank you for putting up with my claims, and I am sorry that I truly was not the paranormal claimant you all expected me to be, because that has lead to a lot of the frustration and impatience that we have seen.

VisionFromFeeling
 
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<snip for length>

I do not expect there to be any paranormal explanation. I do think that I might be doing unintentional and automatic cold reading of some external symptoms, that translate on their own through synesthesia into corresponding feeling and images, and that that is nothing paranormal at all.

Thank you for putting up with my claims, and I am sorry that I truly was not the paranormal claimant you all expected me to be.

VisionFromFeeling

Oh good show! Bravo! (OK, the synesthesia thing needs some work but right now that is not important.) As I said at the time, regardless of the outcome, this was very brave of you. It's wonderful to see that you are also brave enough to take that first, so very important step towards actually understanding what is going on.

I would have loved for your "ability" to have been proven, it would have opened up some very interesting avenues of speculation. However, since that is not the case, I am even more thrilled that you are willing to look at this rationally. That was not an easy thing to do. Honestly, when I read that you were willing to admit to unintentional cold reading, I got a bit misty around the eyes because I was so proud of you. Keep up the good work! Just think how valuable your insight will be in proving/disproving other people's claims.
 
[*look at me*look at me!!!* snipped]


From a posting at www.stopvisionfromfeeling.com...

Anita at stopvisionfromfeeling.com... said:
I am tremendously pleased with the test protocol. From my perspective it is absolutely perfect, and it contains no elements that I worry could reduce my performance. I have confidence in my single past experience of detecting that a left kidney was missing, and am willing to let this specific claim represent the entirety of the medical perceptions claim. And so if I fail this Preliminary test with the IIG, I will be happy to announce my paranormal claim as falsified.


Yeah, yeah. Okay. Post your announcement that the failed test falsifies the entirety of your medical perceptions claims already.

ETA: Or were you lying again?
 
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