The US shadow govt., a massive conspiracy

Hans said:
Yes Saggy view of the world is cartoonish at best.
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Which is grossly unfair to cartoons.

It has been my observation that most people expressing views similar to Saggy's have a very poor understanding of history. They rarely to even reach a level of understanding equal to that of a grade school student, preferring to stick with the equivalent of a TV sound bite - and ignoring all the context and background around whatever is causing them to wet themselves in fear.

It's sad really. People needing to blame their own failings on an other.
 
Border Reiver said:
Which is grossly unfair to cartoons.

It has been my observation that most people expressing views similar to Saggy's have a very poor understanding of history. They rarely to even reach a level of understanding equal to that of a grade school student, preferring to stick with the equivalent of a TV sound bite - and ignoring all the context and background around whatever is causing them to wet themselves in fear.

It's sad really. People needing to blame their own failings on an other.
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You may well be right, and are undoubtedly right about the visible result, but I think it excessively charitable to attribute this to "poor understanding," as ignorance may be impermanent.
 
Axxman300 said:
The first 12 years after Fort Ord closed it was a daily circus of digging up stuff that was either toxic, or went boom. The explosives were expected on the impact ranges, but they hadn't counted on the fact that those impact ranges changed in 92 years from the time the Great White Fleet used to sail into the bay and shell the place. I'd find 50 gallon drums of god-knows-what at the bottom of gullies, and had to be careful not to step on 75mm anti-tank rounds in a place that was used extensively by the 7thID in the 80's, years after they stopped using that round.

They actually removed the old base's dump site contents, and soil down to almost 30 feet to some other landfill. And the Army Corps of Engineers is tracking an underground bloom of a lubricant used in helicopter engines where they can't track the origin - meaning there's a dump they have yet to find.

Maybe I should sue the government too.:D
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Along the way, every live fire range becomes a EOD nightmare.

In San Francisco it wasn't anything to do with ordnance, it was toxics at both the Hunter's Point shipyards - this report is from this year:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investiga...ollowing-NBC-Bay-Area-Reports--413247033.html

And at Mare Isand:

http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/MareIslandlandfillSuccessStory.cfm

And Treasure Island:

http://thebulletin.org/treasure-island-cleanup-exposes-navy’s-mishandling-its-nuclear-past

Some of the facts of what is toxic and how toxic it is gets lost quickly in the alternative press race to establish that environmental racism is the root of all evil hereabouts, but there is enough lead paint, asbestos and mold in the old structures that they all need to go in a way that minimizes the release of those materials.

What is buried at those sites is a nightmare from the mundane (used motor oil) to FSM only knows what.
 
One of the bases set up for the nascent Canadian Army (then the Permanent Active Militia) was Woolsley Barracks in London Ontario in 1871. By the 1990s the RCR had long outgrown the base and in the spirit of "let's divest this old place on the locals" started to prep the land for sale and then found that "ordnance disposal" meant something very different over a century ago... Locating thousands of rounds of ammunition for Sniders, martini-Henry's, .303 British, 12pdr solid shot, grenades, flares, and if memory serves , a Colt machine gun.

It was a big case of "What's the easiest way to get rid of this stuff so I can get to the Mess for a pint?"
 
Saggy said:
I'm only 30 minutes in, it lists the numerous secret agencies in the govt, and describes their influence on US policy, politicians, and the 'deep state'. I can't do a good job of summarizing it. There is a lot of real info here...
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This is my favorite part right here. ''Hey guys, watch a video I found. It speaks truth to power. I haven't actually watched it all or fact checked, but I take everything on face value and trust me, it's real!!''
:jaw-dropp
 
If the proponents of this type of nonsense really believed it, would they be so eager to reveal these secrets in public? If real these types of conspiracies must permeate every level of our society and involve huge numbers of extraordinarily powerful people. Assassinations, world wars, and vast manipulations of wealth and of populations have been attributed to these conspiracies. And yet the Internet whistle blowers, typically people with no political power themselves or even powerful friends, are eager to reveal "the truth" publicly to all who can call up their web pages or posts.

That is not logical- if they really believed in what they claim they must realize that they are making themselves targets for the most immoral, most powerful, most lawless conspiracy on the planet, a conspiracy with the means and motivation to track them down and disappear them, or frame them for a crime, or simply have them "meet with an accident." I could accept it if someone believed in such a conspiracy and then quietly and carefully went to work to secretly undermine it. But to shout it into the vacuum of cyberspace achieves little and certainly (given the magnitude of the conspiracy) would allow the "truther" to be tracked down (do you really believe that the NSA cannot identify members of ISF if sufficiently motivated?).

Obviously I do not believe any of this crap, but I suspect neither do the advocates who profess it. So the good news is that we are both safe.
 
MikeG said:
Some people will believe absolutely any damn thing except the truth. The truth is almost always cock-up rather than conspiracy.
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Sometimes there's a conspiracy to cover up the cock-up. Contrary to what most conspiracists think about skeptics, I do not believe everything the government tells me, nor do I believe the government always has my bet interests at heart, but I think most of the bad stuff can be explained by incompetence or petty corruption (politicians or bureaucrats favoring corporate interests over public interest) rather than some grand evil conspiracy.

Believing that everything the government says is a lie is even dumber than believing it's all true. Weather forecasts are frequently wrong, but that's down to the extreme complexity of weather and imperfect data collection, not some grand conspiracy to promote (or hide) global warming.
 
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Watched it now. Great lecture cutting right to the basic core of the problem, circumventing all the disinformation the very apparatus described, which counts on operating outside of the awareness of the average American, loves to put out. The very disinformation pseudo-skeptical douchebags (or worse) love to hide behind when they attack people who refuse to take the easy way out like their cowardly selves. Recommended. Time to rock the boat.

Embedded for convenience, 900 thousand views by now:

 
Seeing as how in Joint Professional Military Education they teach about the bureaucratic state and the existence and power of career public servants, the "Deep State" is not really a conspiracy, and as I have learned it is as much a feature,as a bug: positions in the government are in large part not under political sway. Their filling is not governed by some Boss Tweed and not turning over every 2-4 years.
 
Yet all of the data Snowden stole has no mention of this shadowy ruling organization, so how would he know?

The guy was a private contractor, someone who fixed computers and equipment. He never sat in on strategy meetings or briefings, and thus doesn't know jack about the big picture. He doesn't even know what he stole, he just loaded everything that wasn't nailed down onto thumbdrives.

The fact is that Snowden held his beliefs long before he tried to work in intelligence.
 
The new Apple iPhones will use facial recognition technology to unlock them.

So, I predict that within six years some idiot will post a CT thread, outraged that the FBI/CIA/NSA/EIEIO aped this technology for their own dastardly deeds.

How can any reasonable human not see this coming?
 
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