The Trump/Putin summit predictions thread

[Horatius]

I'm telling you now, the fact that the Russians are anxious to implement the agreement tells us what they think about it. They are loving it!

Meanwhile, grownups in the White House are asking, "What did you do?"

What amazes me is how the Russians are apparently ready to implement this agreement before the US military has even had time to read it. That tells me that the Russians knew what the agreement would be ahead of time, which means that Putin just told Trump what they'd be doing. This "agreement" was entirely written by the Russians, mark my words. When the details come out, we'll see exactly how bad it is for the US and NATO.

 

[bobdroege7]

I am not a big fan of Ronald Reagan, but I do think that Reagan is turning over in his grave at a lot of what Trump is doing.

Come on, his movies were pretty good.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Why wouldn't it? They're white and not communist. They're practically the good guys!

They like forcing religion on people and take properly antigay policies like concentration camps, what isn't for the republicans to like?

Russia is exactly what the want america to look like.

 

[ponderingturtle]

It is sort of sad. Like you I'm not a huge fan of Reagan but given how the Bushes have responded to Trump I doubt he would be any more forgiving.

To a broader sense even at my still relatively young age while I can't remember a time when I would have supported the Republicans as my primary preferred party I can remember a time when they weren't crazy. When they at least were an understandable counter to the Democrats, someone I didn't agree with but at least could look at and go "Okay I at least sorta see where you are coming from."

Hell Governor Romney didn't seem bad, though he had seriously disagreements with Candidate Romney.

 

[The Don]

What amazes me is how the Russians are apparently ready to implement this agreement before the US military has even had time to read it. That tells me that the Russians knew what the agreement would be ahead of time, which means that Putin just told Trump what they'd be doing. This "agreement" was entirely written by the Russians, mark my words. When the details come out, we'll see exactly how bad it is for the US and NATO.

I'm not entirely sure how we'll find out. As I understand it, no record was made of the meeting and President Trump, despite having the GMOAT, is often rather hazy on details.

Do we have to rely on the interpreter to provide the only record of what was "agreed" ?

 

[pgwenthold]

What amazes me is how the Russians are apparently ready to implement this agreement before the US military has even had time to read it. That tells me that the Russians knew what the agreement would be ahead of time, which means that Putin just told Trump what they'd be doing. This "agreement" was entirely written by the Russians, mark my words. When the details come out, we'll see exactly how bad it is for the US and NATO.

There was a scene in The West Wing kind of like this. Someone on the staff (probably Sam Seburg) was talking with an ambassador of some hostile nation and mentioned some suggestion in passing as a possibility. The foreign country immediately put out a press release saying it accepted the offer, and made the administration look bad.

It was treated as an example of how dicey international negotiations can be, and how you can fail if you aren't careful.

I don't think trump saw that episode.

 

[The Big Dog]

Democrat Rep. Adam Schiff interrupts House Intel hearing on China in failed attempt to subpoena Trump-Putin interpreter.

What a complete joker this guy is. Grandstanding doomed to fail stunt that directly violates the separation of powers doctrine and would have created a chilling effect on a frank exchange of views in private diplomatic meetings.

 

[aleCcowaN]

Democrat Rep. Adam Schiff interrupts House Intel hearing on China in failed attempt to subpoena Trump-Putin interpreter.

What a complete joker this guy is. Grandstanding doomed to fail stunt that directly violates the separation of powers doctrine and would have created a chilling effect on a frank exchange of views in private diplomatic meetings.

Doesn't the client-attorney privileges also apply to interpreters?

I mean, you can't meddle in a private meeting by ambushing the interpreter unless you can prove, without resourcing to the interpreters themselves, that something illegal happened there.

 

[Darat]

I'm not entirely sure how we'll find out. As I understand it, no record was made of the meeting and President Trump, despite having the GMOAT, is often rather hazy on details.

Do we have to rely on the interpreter to provide the only record of what was "agreed" ?

We can only hope Putin will share his recordings of the meeting.

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

Jeebus. I disliked Bush with a passion, and I'd rather have him then this clown. He clearly doesn't like Americans, throws tantrums like a child, yet people still adore him. What is it? He isn't handsome, he isn't articulate. He can't finish a sentence. He always goes off on tangents and then stops.

ETA: Yes, I see the irony in my post.

People want to be told everything is going well and it's all going to be ok and some people are especially susceptible to nationalistic jingoism.

It's why 'alternative' medicine is still around. The real Doctor tells you there's nothing he can do about your condition (bad back, whatever) and the chiropractor, reikiist, acupuncturist, homeopath, whatever says 'I can make you better'. It's what they want to hear.

See also, religion (it'll all be fine in the afterlife, honest!).

The truth sometimes stinks: the jobs are gone - replaced by machines or cheaper foreign labour; your back is buggered, you just need to learn to manage the pain; when you die, that's it - there's nothing special about you, the universe doesn't care and will carry on without you.

Personally the latter one doesn't bother me and they're all just facts you have to suck up and / or do something real about - train for a different job; work out ways to manage the pain, adjust your posture whatever...but some people just don't want to accept / deal with reality and would rather listen to someone telling them it'll all be fine or even great. It's gonna be great folks!

 

[The Big Dog]

Doesn't the client-attorney privileges also apply to interpreters?

I mean, you can't meddle in a private meeting by ambushing the interpreter unless you can prove, without resourcing to the interpreters themselves, that something illegal happened there.

I do not believe that attorney client privilege attaches here.

 

[timhau]

I'm not entirely sure how we'll find out. As I understand it, no record was made of the meeting and President Trump, despite having the GMOAT, is often rather hazy on details.

Which wouldn't be so bad, if the big picture wasn't missing completely.

 

[theprestige]

Trump is probably not at as good at image management as Putin. Donald Trump has a certain schtick that plays to a certain demographic, and he's currently riding high on a public mood that inflates his appeal. But I doubt he could present the appearance of no collusion even if there were no collusion.

Putin, on the other hand, I'm pretty sure could make collusion appear real, even when it wasn't. Especially to people who are already convinced that the collusion is real, and are already looking for signs of its existence.

Take this, for example:

What amazes me is how the Russians are apparently ready to implement this agreement before the US military has even had time to read it. That tells me that the Russians knew what the agreement would be ahead of time, which means that Putin just told Trump what they'd be doing. This "agreement" was entirely written by the Russians, mark my words. When the details come out, we'll see exactly how bad it is for the US and NATO.

You think that Vladimir isn't creating this impression on purpose?

 

[P.J. Denyer]

We can only hope Putin will share his recordings of the meeting.

"I'm sure he'll generously agree,very generously, to do that. Great guy, great guy. We got on very well. No one ever got on as well as we did, some very smart people are saying that."

 

[Stacyhs]

There was a scene in The West Wing kind of like this. Someone on the staff (probably Sam Seburg) was talking with an ambassador of some hostile nation and mentioned some suggestion in passing as a possibility. The foreign country immediately put out a press release saying it accepted the offer, and made the administration look bad.

It was treated as an example of how dicey international negotiations can be, and how you can fail if you aren't careful.

I don't think trump saw that episode.

That's because it wasn't on FOX.

 

[phiwum]

Doesn't the client-attorney privileges also apply to interpreters?

I mean, you can't meddle in a private meeting by ambushing the interpreter unless you can prove, without resourcing to the interpreters themselves, that something illegal happened there.

Not sure that there's the same privilege, but it does seem that the executive privilege would likely preclude subpeonaing the interpreter.

That said, the notion that we should all be okay with a one-on-one meeting with the leader of a nation involved in shenanigans with our last election is nonsense. Would be nice if a few more Republicans spoke up. This ain't normal.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Trump was working on having a 'back channel' to Putin since before he was elected:

WA Monthly: Flynn’s Job Was to Set Up Back Channel Access Between Putin and Trump

The conversations between Flynn and Kislyak were therefore about more than lifting the sanctions on Russia. They were about setting up a back channel of communication between Trump and Putin “that could bypass the U.S. national security bureaucracy.”

In case that sounds familiar, a couple of months ago the Washington Post reported that Erik Prince, founder of Blackwater and brother of Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, held a secret meeting in the Seychelles islands with a Russian close to President Vladi*mir Putin “as part of an apparent effort to establish a back-channel line of communication between Moscow and President-elect Donald Trump.”

Kushner discussed using Russian embassy phones or something for said back channel.

Given he took this opportunity to have that 'back channel' in plain sight, I think we can look at what he wanted that back channel for in the first place to guess what was discussed.

Politifact: Claim 5: Trump associates are pushing for a backchannel deal between Ukraine and Russia.

So Trump's been trying for secret communications with Putin and discussing quid pro quos is the likely reason.

 

[Stacyhs]

Not sure that there's the same privilege, but it does seem that the executive privilege would likely preclude subpeonaing the interpreter.

That said, the notion that we should all be okay with a one-on-one meeting with the leader of a nation involved in shenanigans with our last election is nonsense. Would be nice if a few more Republicans spoke up. This ain't normal.

This bothers me tremendously. These cowards are more concerned with getting re-elected and/or scared of bringing down the Orange Bully's ire on themselves. The GOP are scared s***less of him. That alone should tell them something about the character of the man.

 

[Horatius]

You think that Vladimir isn't creating this impression on purpose?

If this were politics as usual, with a normal President, I would agree with you. But it isn't.

This goes beyond just this meeting with Putin. Taking a look at the entirety of Trump's Presidency so far, virtually every action he's taken on the International stage has acted to decrease the power and influence of the US, and often directly benefits Russia. This has become so obvious that the only people who deny it are the insanely loyal Trumpists, and those who still seek to benefit from Trump remaining in the White House.

So, now we're seeing the gloves come off. With the recent indictments of the Russian operatives behind the election tampering, Putin knows it will all be in the open soon anyways, so now he's telling the world: "I own this punk. Don't bother asking him to help you against us, because he'll say no. Deal with us directly, and by that, I mean do exactly what we want or else."

 

[aleCcowaN]

This bothers me tremendously. These cowards are more concerned with getting re-elected and/or scared of bringing down the Orange Bully's ire on themselves. The GOP are scared s***less of him. That alone should tell them something about the character of the man.

McCain, who is a gentleman and a patriot, spoke loud and clear about this travesty of a summit. Many others also did so. I hope many more will follow their example.