The Trump Presidency (Act V - The One Where Everybody Dies)

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I think there was probable cause - by the time Mueller was appointed there had been numerous reports from numerous intelligence agencies from many different countries that there had been coordination between the Trump team and the Kremlin, not to mention information from inside the Kremlin itself. Not to mention the stuff surrounding Carter Page, George Papadopoulos, et. al.

Although, of course, IANAL, but I think that counts for "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true"

 

[uke2se]

I think there was probable cause - by the time Mueller was appointed there had been numerous reports from numerous intelligence agencies from many different countries that there had been coordination between the Trump team and the Kremlin, not to mention information from inside the Kremlin itself. Not to mention the stuff surrounding Carter Page, George Papadopoulos, et. al.

Although, of course, IANAL, but I think that counts for "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true"

Hell yes. I wonder if Dershowitz's quibble is semantic in nature, that no judge ever determined that there was probable cause. I wonder if he thinks that's how special counsels are appointed.

Or he's picked his side and will support it come hell or high water.

 

[BobTheCoward]

I think there was probable cause - by the time Mueller was appointed there had been numerous reports from numerous intelligence agencies from many different countries that there had been coordination between the Trump team and the Kremlin, not to mention information from inside the Kremlin itself. Not to mention the stuff surrounding Carter Page, George Papadopoulos, et. al.

Although, of course, IANAL, but I think that counts for "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true"

I guess the best part of this conversation is that the requirements for an FBI investigation is below probable cause.

 

[Stacko]

What's Dershowitz been smoking? I mean, I know he's a wingnut, but "no probable cause"?

IMO, he's figured out that being on TV and saying wingnutty things in defense of Trump is how you apply for a job with the administration.

 

[acbytesla]

What's Dershowitz been smoking? I mean, I know he's a wingnut, but "no probable cause"?

I really think Dershowitz is an idiot who will say or do anything to be on TV. His analysis of the Amanda Knox case showed he didn't know the evidence at all. Yet he blathered on.

 

[acbytesla]

Well, there isn't probable cause.

Do you have any idea of what probable cause is? There are mountains of probable cause starting with Trump's guilty and suspicious behavior. The evidence that Trump obstructed justice is significant. There are Manafort's, Fkynn's, even Sessions lying about their contacts with the Russians.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Because there's always a tweet:

 

[alfaniner]

I have the feeling that the word "collusion" is soon to become "conspiracy".

 

[Foolmewunz]

IMO, he's figured out that being on TV and saying wingnutty things in defense of Trump is how you apply for a job with the administration.

Admin? No. My guess is that he wants to be Trump's lead defense attorney and probably thinks it's going that route so he might as well nitpick with something irrelevant like "probable cause". (ETA: 'cuz, as you said, nothing warms up the orange turdblossom like loyalty and people who rush to his defense.)

 

[a_unique_person]

Because there's always a tweet:

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/1IWDw4D.jpg[/qimg]

The White House on Monday congratulated the “Venezuelan people” for the peaceful, democratic election that gave President Hugo Chavez win his third six-year term.

According to pool reports, White House spokesman Jay Carney said the administration offered its support to Venezuelan voters, “while noting the U.S. has its differences with Chavez.”

A more nuanced comment by TWH than Trump implies.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Do you have any idea of what probable cause is? There are mountains of probable cause starting with Trump's guilty and suspicious behavior. The evidence that Trump obstructed justice is significant. There are Manafort's, Fkynn's, even Sessions lying about their contacts with the Russians.

I would describe that as an articulable factual basis.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Probable Cause simply means enough evidence that a crime was probably committed, and that the person or persons in question probably did it.

Threshold is 51% probability.

It’s enough justification to effect an arrest. It’s certainly enough to justify an investigation.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Probable Cause simply means enough evidence that a crime was probably committed, and that the person or persons in question probably did it.

Threshold is 51% probability.

It’s enough justification to effect an arrest. It’s certainly enough to justify an investigation.

And I listed what Is the requirements for an investigation. It is lower than probable cause.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I have the feeling that the word "collusion" is soon to become "conspiracy".

It should have done a long time ago. It has no legally-applicable definition here.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

And I listed what Is the requirements for an investigation. It is lower than probable cause.

You also said, incorrectly, that there wasn't probable cause.

 

[acbytesla]

I would describe that as an articulable factual basis.

Huh?

 

[acbytesla]

Probable Cause
DEFINITION
Probable cause is a requirement found in the Fourth Amendment that must usually be met before police make an arrest, conduct a search, or receive a warrant. Courts usually find probable cause when there is a reasonable basis for believing that a crime may have been committed (for an arrest) or when evidence of the crime is present in the place to be searched (for a search)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/probable_cause

 

[Belz...]

Yeah but that depends what your definition of "is" is.

 

[BobTheCoward]

You also said, incorrectly, that there wasn't probable cause.

We would have to be specific on what crime and who, but I don't think there is.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

We would have to be specific on what crime and who, but I don't think there is.

You're free to ignore as much evidence as you want.