Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[Stacyhs]

And how would Guede even know the cottage doors were lockable, given it was probably originally designed for one family.

Because they had LOCKS. You know, those things that have a keyhole that a lock fits in. But, maybe Guede, only having lived the majority of his life in Italy didn't know what an Italian lock looked like.
Locks aren't 'designed for one family'. Please stop making up your own (ludicrous) facts.

If you look at the door, there is flap [?] over the lock which you WOULD need to face as you need to (a) peer downwards in the dimmed light (b) require both hands to insert the key whilst holding the flap to one side and (c) shutting the door firmly, first.

WHAT 'flap'? There is NO flap. Therefore, the rest of your comment is irrelevant.

Only one person present had the key anyway or knew where it was kept. It is hardly a detail a fleeing criminal is going to consider.

Oh, good lord. Again, you're just making up your own facts. Kercher had to have her keys with her when she returned home to open the front door. They were likely in her purse, pocket, or hand.

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The idea Guede twisted his body to do this whilst facing towards the exit is laughable and shows your desperation to spin a lie.

Desperation is spinning your own lies like I've addressed above. If you think someone can't pull a door shut and lock it by turning one foot one way and the other toward the door, then I suggest you try and see if it's plausible yourself. I did. It is.
Guede's right shoe could have been facing more toward the door but since no right shoeprints were found, we can't know. But for you to claim a person's feet must face the door and not just turn at the waist is just another "fact" you've made up. Is the man below directly facing the door or not?

Amanda Knox locked Mez' door. She had the key. Which was never found.

Why would she need to lock Meredith's door?
What the PGP always conveniently ignore is that Knox had no reason to lock the door in the first place just as she had no need to stage a burglary. All they had to do was come home, say the front door was open, Meredith's door was open, saw the body and start screaming. Then Raffaele calls 112. The sexual assault and murder would have sufficed. There was no need to invent taking a shower, going into the other bathroom, finding feces, going back to get Raffaele, etc. Why make up such a detailed and convoluted story unless that's what actually happened. As the saying goes, when lying "Keep it simple".

 

[SpitfireIX]

So, now, I'll re-pose the direct question that you dodged, Vixen, along with the one you should have addressed along with it.

First, why did you claim that I had a "smug certainty" when I used the word "likely"?

Second, why did you state that I "claim you once read it somewhere in a mainstream magazine article" when I in fact stated that the information was from a reputable journal and discussed in Slate, and I linked to the Slate article, which links to the journal article?

Kindly answer both questions.

 

[Vixen]

Because they had LOCKS. You know, those things that have a keyhole that a lock fits in. But, maybe Guede, only having lived the majority of his life in Italy didn't know what an Italian lock looked like.
Locks aren't 'designed for one family'. Please stop making up your own (ludicrous) facts.


WHAT 'flap'? There is NO flap. Therefore, the rest of your comment is irrelevant.


Oh, good lord. Again, you're just making up your own facts. Kercher had to have her keys with her when she returned home to open the front door. They were likely in her purse, pocket, or hand.

Desperation is spinning your own lies like I've addressed above. If you think someone can't pull a door shut and lock it by turning one foot one way and the other toward the door, then I suggest you try and see if it's plausible yourself. I did. It is.
Guede's right shoe could have been facing more toward the door but since no right shoeprints were found, we can't know. But for you to claim a person's feet must face the door and not just turn at the waist is just another "fact" you've made up. Is the man below directly facing the door or not?

View attachment 60632

Why would she need to lock Meredith's door?
What the PGP always conveniently ignore is that Knox had no reason to lock the door in the first place just as she had no need to stage a burglary. All they had to do was come home, say the front door was open, Meredith's door was open, saw the body and start screaming. Then Raffaele calls 112. The sexual assault and murder would have sufficed. There was no need to invent taking a shower, going into the other bathroom, finding feces, going back to get Raffaele, etc. Why make up such a detailed and convoluted story unless that's what actually happened. As the saying goes, when lying "Keep it simple".

No, a murderer committing a murder - or any crime - doesn't call the police to his own crime scene.

As for the key it was dark at night so yes, any stranger finding a key would need to fumble about to insert the key the correct way round assuming they knew what the key was for at all.




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[Numbers]

Oh, dear. Wrong yet again:



Guede was arrested Nov. 18, the same day. So what was the news reporting on Nov. 18, 2007?



Knox's first mention of Guede by name to her father was two days later, on Nov. 20, 2007:



The media was reporting Guede by name on Nov. 20,2007:



Guede's name was in the English media by Nov. 20 as reported in The Guardian.

So, either pony up and quote and cite the prison interception where "Knox knew it was Guede who had been arrested BEFORE the police announced it to the media," or admit you are wrong.

When Knox told her father she had heard Guede's name on TV, she was in an Italian prison, with access for her and other inmates to Italian TV. So it makes perfect sense that there would have been a TV announcement of the arrest on Italian TV on 18 November that Knox would know about. I suggest that she would largely understand the key language terms of the announcement and/or others could have helped her understand. So I don't see the problem with Knox telling her father about the arrest when he visited her in prison on 20 November.

I don't understand why you or Vixen would be concerned about when the news was available on English-language TV or news media. How is that relevant? Did Knox have daily access to English-language TV or news media?

 

[Vixen]

So, now, I'll re-pose the direct question that you dodged, Vixen, along with the one you should have addressed along with it.

First, why did you claim that I had a "smug certainty" when I used the word "likely"?

Second, why did you state that I "claim you once read it somewhere in a mainstream magazine article" when I in fact stated that the information was from a reputable journal and discussed in Slate, and I linked to the Slate article, which links to the journal article?

Kindly answer both questions.

Please can you concentrate on the topic of the thread. Thanks.

If you want to espouse your views on the merits or otherwise of eugenics (a topic I am not interested in) please start a different thread.

As I said, I am only interested in the objective facts of the case.



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[Stacyhs]

Not until 18:30 CET.

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Has it occurred to you that's when this reporter filed his story? That others could have reported it earlier?

Not until 18:30 CET.

View attachment 60631


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[Vixen]

When Knox told her father she had heard Guede's name on TV, she was in an Italian prison, with access for her and other inmates to Italian TV. So it makes perfect sense that there would have been a TV announcement of the arrest on Italian TV on 18 November that Knox would know about. I suggest that she would largely understand the key language terms of the announcement and/or others could have helped her understand. So I don't see the problem with Knox telling her father about the arrest when he visited her in prison on 20 November.

I don't understand why you or Vixen would be concerned about when the news was available on English-language TV or news media. How is that relevant? Did Knox have daily access to English-language TV or news media?

The point is, although the arrest of the 'fourth man' was known about on the 18th Nov 2007, his name was not made public until 20 Nov 2007, at 'lunchtime' - where Guede's father saw it on tv - and at 11:45 byline in the ANSA Italian papers, 18:32 in the GUARDIAN citing 'agencies', probably ANSA. Curt Knox was visiting Knox circa 9:00am 20 Nov 2007.



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[SpitfireIX]

I would expect you to explain why you thought he was innocent.

Yet you stated that if you told me you believed Rose West or Ted Bundy were innocent, I would just dismiss your belief by pointing to the fact of their conviction. Kindly explain this apparent contradiction.

If your belief is based on some romantic sentimental tosh as with this case . . .

Assumes facts not in evidence.

I wouldn't want to waste time discussing it because as I said, I am not interested in blind faith stuff.

Damn! That's two in one day. I'd better order some more.

 

[Stacyhs]

.Guede was arrested 6:00am in Rhine, Germany. Curt Knox visited his daughter, 'three hours after the arrest', so that would have been 9:00a.m. It wasn't on the news until lunch time, which tallies with the Italian paper, above, 11:45. So Knox saw it on the news at lunchtime earliest but she had mentioned the name 'Rudy' to her dad earlier.

Nope. Mignini revoked the news blackout on Nov. 19, the day before Knox mentions Rudy to her dad between 9:30 and 10:30 (visitation time on transcript previously provided).

noted that ANSA of Rome and other journalistic sources have published the name and photo of Guede and that the need to track him down requires the knowledge of the revocation of the secrecy of the registration

Note that it says ANSA and other media had already published Guede's name and photo by Nov. 19. Here is that report:

Turetta arrestato in Germania come accadde con Rudy Guede​

L'unico condannato per omicidio Kercher fu fermato in treno
PERUGIA, 19 novembre 2023, 11:45

Do you want to claim that the rest of the media wasn't reporting it until after noon the next day?

 

[Stacyhs]

The point is, although the arrest of the 'fourth man' was known about on the 18th Nov 2007, his name was not made public until 20 Nov 2007, at 'lunchtime' - where Guede's father saw it on tv - and at 11:45 byline in the ANSA Italian papers, 18:32 in the GUARDIAN citing 'agencies', probably ANSA. Curt Knox was visiting Knox circa 9:00am 20 Nov 2007.



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Nope. The point is that Guede's arrest and name were in the news the day before Knox mentioned him to her father as I've provided in another post.

 

[Stacyhs]

No, a murderer committing a murder - or any crime - doesn't call the police to his own crime scene.

Which is exactly what you claim Sollecito did when he called 112! And please, don't claim he called them after the postales arrived. We've already shown that didn't happen.
My point was that there was NO NEED for Knox to stage a burglary or to lock the bedroom door.

As for the key it was dark at night so yes, any stranger finding a key would need to fumble about to insert the key the correct way round assuming they knew what the key was for at all.

LOL! It was dark so he couldn't lock the door! That wasn't your point earlier when you claimed Guede's shoeprint not facing the door is evidence he didn't lock it.
"assuming they knew what the key was for at all."
Riiiiiiiight. What keys would Kercher carry around with her? Front door, bedroom door... and her keys to her vacation cottage, her car, her boyfriend's door? LOL!!!

 

[TruthCalls]

Well, she was set to go to Gubbio, just waiting for Filomena to arrive, but then a surprise appearance by the postal police, completely unexpected.

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Of course, if she was guilty she wouldn't have been waiting for Filomena, she never would have called Filomena, and instead, she'd be in Gubbio. But you are correct in saying the Postal Police arrival was totally unexpected - they were waiting for the Carabinieri.

 

[Stacyhs]

When Knox told her father she had heard Guede's name on TV, she was in an Italian prison, with access for her and other inmates to Italian TV. So it makes perfect sense that there would have been a TV announcement of the arrest on Italian TV on 18 November

Nov. 19 not 18.

that Knox would know about. I suggest that she would largely understand the key language terms of the announcement and/or others could have helped her understand. So I don't see the problem with Knox telling her father about the arrest when he visited her in prison on 20 November.

Nor do I, except Vixen is claiming she mentioned his name to her father before it was in the media

I don't understand why you or Vixen would be concerned about when the news was available on English-language TV or news media. How is that relevant? Did Knox have daily access to English-language TV or news media?

Vixen is claiming Knox had knowledge of Guede being involved BEFORE it was in the media. I've proven that is not true by quoting and citing Mignini's revocation of the news blackout and ANSA's reporting of Guede on Nov. 19.
's

 

[Numbers]

Nope. Mignini revoked the news blackout on Nov. 19, the day before Knox mentions Rudy to her dad between 9:30 and 10:30 (visitation time on transcript previously provided).

Note that it says ANSA and other media had already published Guede's name and photo by Nov. 19. Here is that report:



Do you want to claim that the rest of the media wasn't reporting it until after noon the next day?

Looks as though there is a conflict in dates between the official publication release date (19 November 2007) for publication of Guede's name and photo, and the 19 November 2023 ANSA article that states that Guede was stopped or arrested on a train on 20 November 2007. The official document date is consistent with Guede having been stopped/arrested on 18 November 2007.

It seems clear to me that Guede's photo and name would have been published in the media and on TV as soon as 18 or19 November 2007 since the official document, signed by Mignini on 19 November, states as a reason for releasing the publication hold that ANSA and other journalists had already published Guede's name and photo.

 

[Numbers]

Nov. 19 not 18.


Nor do I, except Vixen is claiming she mentioned his name to her father before it was in the media


Vixen is claiming Knox had knowledge of Guede being involved BEFORE it was in the media. I've proven that is not true by quoting and citing Mignini's revocation of the news blackout and ANSA's reporting of Guede on Nov. 19.
's

Yes, I see it now. Vixen is wrong about when Guede's name and photo were published by the media such as ANSA. It would certainly have been reported on TV as well. Thanks for clearing that up with Mignini's official document.

 

[Stacyhs]

Could you please advise which wiretap it was when Amanda told her father about Guede? IIRC, there was no incriminating information collected from the thousands of taps put in place. Surely if Amanda knew about Guede before the police did, that would have been something that came up in trial, no?

You're using logic and common sense. Those are confusing to most PGP.

 

[Stacyhs]

Well, she was set to go to Gubbio, just waiting for Filomena to arrive, but then a surprise appearance by the postal police, completely unexpected.

Why would she still be planning on going to Gubbio after what she'd discovered? Why not just GO to Gubbio and let someone else discover the murder from the get-go?

Oh, please....Raffaele had already called the carabinieri. Stop with this rubbish about them sneaking off and making FIVE phone calls that the postales somehow missed during the time they claimed they were there. You can't explain that which is why you avoid answering any question about that. "Ignore it; it will go away," should be your motto.

 

[Stacyhs]

I used a lower case 'm' because that is what I meant.

LOL. Oh, brother....

 

[Stacyhs]

Please can you concentrate on the topic of the thread. Thanks.

If you want to espouse your views on the merits or otherwise of eugenics (a topic I am not interested in) please start a different thread.

Another example of you ignoring anything you can't address with a plausible, logical answer!

As I said, I am only interested in the objective facts of the case.

 

[Stacyhs]

Yes, I see it now. Vixen is wrong about when Guede's name and photo were published by the media such as ANSA. It would certainly have been reported on TV as well. Thanks for clearing that up with Mignini's official document.

Someone will be along any time now to explain that was just a "typo" or "clerical error".