The Thomas Gilbert case

[anglolawyer]

This might prove to be interesting:

The son of a US hedge fund founder who was shot dead over the weekend has been charged with his murder, which police describe as a staged suicide.
The body of 70-year-old Thomas Gilbert Snr was found by his wife on Sunday at their New York home with a single bullet wound to the head. His son, Thomas Gilbert Jr, 30, has now been arrested on charges of murder and criminal possession. Police said the two had been arguing over Gilbert Jnr's allowance. Gilbert Jnr visited his parents on Sunday afternoon, and asked his mother to get him some food, according to New York Chief of Detectives Robert Boyce.

'Staged crime scene'
But while out, Detective Boyce said the woman got a "bad feeling" and decided to return. There she found her husband shot in the head with a gun resting on his chest. Police were unconvinced it was suicide, describing it as a "staged crime scene". The younger Gilbert was arrested at his apartment, where officers discovered ammunition matching the gun found at the scene.

Thomas Gilbert Snr founded the hedge fund Wainscott in 2011. It focuses on the biotech and healthcare industries.

May well be nothing in it, just a spoiled kid who wanted his inheritance sooner than later. On the other hand, it is one strange murder. How was he expecting to get away with it? The story doesn't tell us about the gun. Did he fire his own gun and just leave it on pop's chest? Nor is there anything about what exactly made the cops think the scene looked suspicious.

Was the father depressed, maybe in money trouble or because of his relationship with Thomas or for some unknown reason. Why did the missus have a bad feeling and what did she feel bad about?

 

[casebro]

I suppose 'staging' would be obvious to some one who has seen lots of suicides. Like where do people do it- sitting in a favorite chair? Standing in the middle of a room? in bed? Then where does the gun land afterwards? Shot in the back of the head would look suspicious too.

 

[MG1962]

I suppose 'staging' would be obvious to some one who has seen lots of suicides. Like where do people do it- sitting in a favorite chair? Standing in the middle of a room? in bed? Then where does the gun land afterwards? Shot in the back of the head would look suspicious too.

Also if shows like CSI are to be believed there are chemical tests that will indicate roughly how close the muzzle was to the victim when the gun was fired

 

[anglolawyer]

I suppose 'staging' would be obvious to some one who has seen lots of suicides. Like where do people do it- sitting in a favorite chair? Standing in the middle of a room? in bed? Then where does the gun land afterwards? Shot in the back of the head would look suspicious too.

Don't you believe it! If there is something obvious, like a bullet in the back of the head, fine. Otherwise, I would be highly skeptical of the existence of some specialised realm of science in which one can simply tell. We need to know the entry point. If it was the mouth, say, how did the perp get pop to open up? Did he take him by surprise and maybe shoot him behind the ear without being noticed?

 

[Samson]

I suppose 'staging' would be obvious to some one who has seen lots of suicides. Like where do people do it- sitting in a favorite chair? Standing in the middle of a room? in bed? Then where does the gun land afterwards? Shot in the back of the head would look suspicious too.

It is still debated 20 years on in the David/Robin Bain case.
Forensics should immediately solve this one, but the question of expecting to get away with it is fascinating in many wrongful convictions. It's more than the cookie jar after all.

 

[anglolawyer]

Also if shows like CSI are to be believed there are chemical tests that will indicate roughly how close the muzzle was to the victim when the gun was fired

Yes, I think if he were shot from the other side of the room they could tell that. Im assuming he was shot close up but hopefully the news reports will tell us that. It's America so pretty soon we'll know everything I should think.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Details are lacking, but I'm sure will come out soon enough. As mentioned earlier, I suspect an experienced detective who has investigated lots of suicides would notice things right away that might set off alarm bells.

 

[FromBelgiumWithLove]

On the other hand, it is one strange murder. How was he expecting to get away with it? The story doesn't tell us about the gun.

This one does.

Did he fire his own gun and just leave it on pop's chest?

The police found ammunition and empty shell casings matching the gun at his apartment, as well as an empty box for that type of Glock, but not the gun itself. Unless his dad happened to own an identical pistol, and he has an explanation for where his own gun disappeared to, I'd say this is pretty much an open-and-shut case.

Nor is there anything about what exactly made the cops think the scene looked suspicious.

Shooting someone and then trying to make it look like a suicide isn't easy, especially if the victim isn't cooperative, and would require considerable planning beforehand. Leaving the ammunition and the box for the pistol at his apartment, as well as other signs of criminal activity such as a skimmer and blank credit cards, doesn't suggest this guy did much pre-planning. And committing suicide with a handgun isn't that easy either, and can only be done in a limited amount of ways. If the crime scene looks like none of those ways has been used, it's suspicious.

How was he expecting to get away with it?

Most murderers aren't very clever.

 

[marplots]

Details are lacking, but I'm sure will come out soon enough. As mentioned earlier, I suspect an experienced detective who has investigated lots of suicides would notice things right away that might set off alarm bells.

Yes, like a suicide note that says, "That bastard son of mine shot me!"

 

[Tiktaalik]

GSR tests on the hands, too.

 

[anglolawyer]

This one does.

Two empty shell casings, huh? Do you figure he wanted people to think his dad shot himself through the head twice?

The police found ammunition and empty shell casings matching the gun at his apartment, as well as an empty box for that type of Glock, but not the gun itself. Unless his dad happened to own an identical pistol, and he has an explanation for where his own gun disappeared to, I'd say this is pretty much an open-and-shut case.

Yes, I agree, but then we have be talking about some crackhead who couldn't possibly have expected to get away with such a hare-brained scheme.

Shooting someone and then trying to make it look like a suicide isn't easy, especially if the victim isn't cooperative, and would require considerable planning beforehand.

Why? You hold up the victim with the gun, put it against temple and when he's not expecting it, you fire. Then place gun in victim's hand and let it drop to the floor, all natural like. The problem is lack of gun shot residue on victim's hand. Don't know how you get round that. Probably placing gun neatly on chest is not recommended.

Leaving the ammunition and the box for the pistol at his apartment, as well as other signs of criminal activity such as a skimmer and blank credit cards, doesn't suggest this guy did much pre-planning.

Well, he went armed to his parents' place, sent mum out and bumped off pop within minutes so it looks as though there was premeditation and if there was then he must have given some thought to how he would get away with it. And since his precautions seem to have been wholly inadequate one is left with two possibilities:

• he is off his rocker, or
• suicide

And committing suicide with a handgun isn't that easy either, and can only be done in a limited amount of ways. If the crime scene looks like none of those ways has been used, it's suspicious.

What's so difficult? Point gun at head and shoot.

 

[Bikewer]

As has been suggested, the forensics on such things are pretty definitive. It's possible to tell within inches how far the weapon was from the target when fired, and also the exact angle of bullet entry (by using simple rods inserted into the bullet track....).
If these are inconsistent with how a weapon would be held by someone shooting themselves...Well...

Also...Two shell casings? It's not impossible for a head-shot individual to pull the trigger again as part of a spasm, or to miss entirely with a first shot... Much like "hesitation marks" on people trying wrist-cutting.
But unusual.
Normally, a head-shot individual just collapses...having the gun lying on the fellow's chest would be a bit unusual.

 

[Brian-M]

The problem is lack of gun shot residue on victim's hand. Don't know how you get round that.

I saw the solution to that on an episode of Columbo. The killer took a round apart with a pair of pliers, dumping the powder onto a piece of foil and lit it. He then (after it stopped burning) folded up the foil and put it in his pocket. Later, after committing the murder, he took the foil out and blew the residue onto the victim's hand.

 

[anglolawyer]

As has been suggested, the forensics on such things are pretty definitive. It's possible to tell within inches how far the weapon was from the target when fired, and also the exact angle of bullet entry (by using simple rods inserted into the bullet track....).
If these are inconsistent with how a weapon would be held by someone shooting themselves...Well...

Also...Two shell casings? It's not impossible for a head-shot individual to pull the trigger again as part of a spasm, or to miss entirely with a first shot... Much like "hesitation marks" on people trying wrist-cutting.
But unusual.
Normally, a head-shot individual just collapses...having the gun lying on the fellow's chest would be a bit unusual.

If two shots were fired there would be two bullet tracks, one being possibly in the wall somewhere. Why would he pick up the casings (I am a gun ignoramus so that may be a stupid question)? Do they fall out of the gun when it is fired or stay with it? Either way, what's he doing with them? I am assuming these casings have nothing to do with the crime.

 

[anglolawyer]

I saw the solution to that on an episode of Columbo. The killer took a round apart with a pair of pliers, dumping the powder onto a piece of foil and lit it. He then (after it stopped burning) folded up the foil and put it in his pocket. Later, after committing the murder, he took the foil out and blew the residue onto the victim's hand.

I think I know that one. I am a major Columbo fan. Somehow, I don't think we''l find this Gilbert kid figured all that out.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

As has been suggested, the forensics on such things are pretty definitive. It's possible to tell within inches how far the weapon was from the target when fired, and also the exact angle of bullet entry (by using simple rods inserted into the bullet track....).
If these are inconsistent with how a weapon would be held by someone shooting themselves...Well...

Also...Two shell casings? It's not impossible for a head-shot individual to pull the trigger again as part of a spasm, or to miss entirely with a first shot... Much like "hesitation marks" on people trying wrist-cutting.
But unusual.
Normally, a head-shot individual just collapses...having the gun lying on the fellow's chest would be a bit unusual.

ISTR, having read that one of the things that happens when you shoot yourself, is that your arm and hand will reflexively jerk and the gun be propelled away from you. Thus finding a dead body with gun in hand is a rather positive indication the the suicide has been staged. (And. No. I am not Googling this. )

 

[Dan O.]

What a stupid kid. He should have done this years ago when the inheritance tax rate hit zero. Now he'll get nothing of his dad's wealth after the taxes are taken out. At least the state will be providing his room and board for the next several decades so it won't be a total loss.

 

[anglolawyer]

What a stupid kid. He should have done this years ago when the inheritance tax rate hit zero. Now he'll get nothing of his dad's wealth after the taxes are taken out. At least the state will be providing his room and board for the next several decades so it won't be a total loss.

Getting back to Columbo, maybe the kid saw that one where the perp framed himself. He made a drunken threat to kill at party which was witnessed by numerous people then went off drinking somewhere. He somehow managed to kill the victim, screwing around with his watch or something to make the timing work, and came into shot as the main suspect right away. He had no alibi and it was his gun that was used. But, he had cunningly involved himself in a bunch of drunken incidents around town which he had pretended to forget so the police could find out about them independently. The idea was they would first suspect him and then slowly come to realise he had been framed. Of course, he reckoned without Columbo.

So maybe that's the kids idea here only he didn't quite figure out the part where the death is timed when he's not around. Or the mother did it. Or the mother and the kid in a conspiracy.

 

[TragicMonkey]

The killer was the ghost of Darwin, who wanted to punish the father for producing such a son.

 

[Cain]

Clearly this was about early inheritance. The wife framed her kid.
#casesolved