'The Third Intifada has already begun'

[trustbutverify]

One thing kind of odd about the latest Palestinian Stabbing spree is that it might actually change some Israeli minds and Hearts so-to-speak. I mean, Israel might be able to steal land from the Palestinians while treating them with contempt, but actually enjoying the fruits of a conquest might impossible for them in light of what's happening. Because I think for a long tome a lot of Israelis are going to worry every time they go to the store, or out to eat , or are just walking down the street - they are going to worry about some suicidal maniac coming out of nowhere and ramming a knife into them. I couldn't imagine living like that and would want to do most anything to change the situation!

It might change Israeli minds and hearts (so-to-speak). But perhaps not in the way you think. Maybe even in an opposite way.

 

[Jules Galen]

It might change Israeli minds and hearts (so-to-speak). But perhaps not in the way you think. Maybe even in an opposite way.

Well...please give me an idea as to how the Israeli Government might try to cure its Zombie Problem. It seems like this Israeli Woman believe that the Israeli Government doesn't have a clue as to what to do about the Zombies:

http://972mag.com/the-only-thing-scarier-than-terror-is-leadership-vacuum/112753/

 

[Jules Galen]

Here's a link to a very informative discussion about Israeli Atrocities against Palestinians that is hosted by the venerable Chris hedges:

http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/ite...and_max_bumenthal_on_israel_gaza_and_20151014

I urge people to watch it and see a different perspective that is utterly ignored by most American Press.

 

[Ziggurat]

It's a nice cycle the Israelis got going with the Palestinians: steal their land, wall then in, drive them crazy - and then blame them for the pathology - and then repeat the cycle.

Seriously, quit blaming the victims! The added insult to injury only makes it worse.

Wow. Rarely do I get to see a more perfect example of DARVO in action. You're telling me to quit blaming the victims, but this entire post is basically just blaming victims. The killer in that video was driven crazy, he didn't simply murder two innocent people. And it's somehow wrong of me to blame him for killing two people, when I should obviously be blaming the people he just killed.

Of all the ways that you could have responded, this is about the most dishonest and reprehensible approach available.

Also, please quit claiming that there is no solution - BS!

I never claimed there is no solution. Of course there's a solution: the Palestinians should stop trying to kill Jews. You just don't have any more interest in that solution than the Palestinians apparently do.

And, if Israel would move back to the 1967 Borders and use UN Peacekeepers - then, problem solved with the Palestinians, too!

Why the 1967 borders? What's magical about them? And do you know why those borders aren't still the borders of Israel? Hint: it's not because Israel decided it needed to go oppress some Palestinians. The 1967 borders didn't bring peace in 1967, why would they bring peace now?

Furthermore, Egypt and Jordan don't actually want to go back to the 1967 borders either.

But Israel won't do that - because they don't have to negotiate with the Palestinians, because the Palestinians are weak and can be kicked around with impunity.

The problem has never been Israel's unwillingness to negotiate. And yes, the Palestinians are weak. It's about time that they accepted this reality.

And this is the really sad part. When you compare the respect that the Israelis have for Hezbollah to the impunity with which they brutalize the Palestinians, then one constant quickly comes to the foreground: Israel doesn't understand anything but force.

And here we see the explicit attempt to justify terrorism and murder.

The Israelis have pretty-much gutted the ability of the Palestinians to wage an armed conflict, and the Palestinians are now so hopeless - so crazed with despair - that they can't figure out how to really wage war any other way.

Seriously, Jules? The Palestinians are murdering Jews with knives, and you think the problem is that they can't do it with tanks? And you blame the Israelis for not letting them do it with tanks?

Never go full retard, Jules.

As a result, it looks like it could be an endless cycle of stealing and stomping that the Palestinians have in store for themselves broken only by the short periods where the Palestinians are made to take the blame for their suffering.

Your argument only makes sense if you take it as axiomatically true that they aren't to blame for anything. But once that assumption is lifted, once you actually look at what they've done to themselves, then it's pretty clear that yeah, actually, they are to blame for most of their own suffering, because they keep screwing themselves over with useless violence and corruption. They could have had peace and prosperity decades ago. Ghandi showed them the way. But a culture where it makes sense to kill your own daughter for being seen with the wrong boy because it brings shame to the family apparently couldn't handle the humiliation of accepting defeat, and would rather accept "martyrdom" in its quest to kill its enemy than peace and prosperity granted to it by the enemy.

 

[Jules Galen]

Seriously, Jules? The Palestinians are murdering Jews with knives, and you think the problem is that they can't do it with tanks? And you blame the Israelis for not letting them do it with tanks?

I don't think the Pals should be killing Israeli Civilians, and I don't think they should be engaging in firefights with the IDF. But...this doesn't mean that they can't wage war - and even escalate the fighting - and they don't need rocket launchers, or tanks, or F-16s to do it.

I think Vietnam did a beautiful demonstration of how to win a war without military engagement last year when they ran the Chinese and their drilling Rigs out of Vietnamese Territorial Waters. Perhaps the Pals could learn a lesson or two from that...but I doubt it. Likewise, the PIRA defeated the UK in such a slick way that it wasn't until the war had long been declared over that the UK Warhawks realized they had been defeated as Sinn Fein was being entertained by UK Royalty - and that's a particular example the Pals could apply directly to this conflict - but I doubt they will.

The Israelis and the Pals seem to think that this war can be won by direct military conflict....with lots of Propaganda Streaming from both sides - especialy the Israelis and their Hasbara. But...I don't remember the PIRA or the Vietnamese relying on either - they just knew who/what to hit. And that's the difference between guys who really understand war, and blockheads like the IDF and Hamas.

I've always said that if Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Cong had been plopped down in Gaza in place of the Palestinians, a Buddist Temple and not a Mosque would now be standing on the Temple Mount, and the Israelies would be speaking Vietnamese. And after watching the IDF constantly blow it against those blockhead Hamas, I believe it more than ever.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

That's because Israel is playing nice. Seriously, SOP in the ME when it comes to ethnic disputes is Nerve Gas, and then leaving the survivors in torture pits.

 

[Jules Galen]

That's because Israel is playing nice. Seriously, SOP in the ME when it comes to ethnic disputes is Nerve Gas, and then leaving the survivors in torture pits.

Israel is playing nice? Well...I guess they are compared to 19th century Britain during the Boer Wars, or the Unites States in Vietnam. And...there are a lot of good Jewish people in Israel and all over the world that keep an eye on Israel and admonish it when they start committing War Crimes. And then there are Messrs Sony and Panasonic who are always nearby to insure that atrocities get documented - and posted on Youtube within hours. And I think these factors keep the atrocities down a bit - a lot, in fact. And I think this benefits Israel.

Think about it: If Israel went all HAM on the Pals like the Israeli Hawks keep suggesting, do you think that would be good for Israel? Do you think that would project an Image of Israel that would encourage monetary and political support from people around the world? I don't think it would.

Nevertheless, I agree with you and I think Israel could end their Palestinian Problem quickly and Forever by using Military Force. But then they would have created a whole set of other problems for themselves that are even worse.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

I'm thinking more "outright *********** saints compared to Bashir-Al-Assad and Saddam Hussein". You have to remember who Israel has been neighbours with for the past 66-odd years (The sort of countries where anybody who the government didn't like were fed into woodchippers feet first or tortured to death in the likes of Abu Ghraib). And besides, any country could just EMP the area/cut off internet where cameras are being used. No point using a glorified brick after all.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Here's a link to a very informative discussion about Israeli Atrocities against Palestinians that is hosted by the venerable Chris hedges:

http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/ite...and_max_bumenthal_on_israel_gaza_and_20151014

I urge people to watch it and see a different perspective that is utterly ignored by most American Press.

Excellent stuff, Jules, thanks. Embedded:

 

[trustbutverify]

Well...please give me an idea as to how the Israeli Government might try to cure its Zombie Problem. It seems like this Israeli Woman believe that the Israeli Government doesn't have a clue as to what to do about the Zombies:

http://972mag.com/the-only-thing-scarier-than-terror-is-leadership-vacuum/112753/

I'm well acquainted with your Israeli woman and her "beliefs". I've read most of what she's written, and I agree with some of it. However, she has a well defined political agenda... and your zombie friends happen to serve that particular agenda well. I'm not sure if Zonszein isn't currently more gratified than terrified.

As far as an idea as to how Israel can counter the stabbing- Zombie freedom fighters; she can start by honoring the 1967 de facto agreement to leave the temple mount/al aqsa mosque to the Palestinian Muslims. That might be a good start.

 

[WildCat]

So what? When you don't give back something that isn't your, it's called "stealing"! So...Israel should give it back. Then, if the Pals get uppity, they can just bomb the snot out of them like they always have done.

Just tell the Pals:

1. Here's your homeland - 1967 Borders.
2. Some UN Peace Keepers are also included to keep an eye on you.
3. If you get nasty, we are going to bomb the snot out of you.
4. Have a nice day. Build a nice country.

That was already tried once, and yet here you are complaining when Israel does far less than "bombing the snot" out of them.

So why should anyone believe you when you say that would satisfy you, let alone the rest of world opinion which is driven in no small part by raging anti-semitism?

 

[WildCat]

In short, Palestinians can not travel into or out of GAZA without Israel's Permission.

Sure they can, they can leave via the border with Egypt. Why should Israel allow them to enter Israel? Does needing Canada's permission to enter Canada mean the USA is occupied by Canada?

 

[WildCat]

Evidence? The Evidence is the 2006 War with Hezbollah where Israel was only too happy to let the UN help Keep Peace with an enemy (Hezbollah) that they could not defeat with impunity. And Hezbollah is a nightmare enemy - an enemy with a world-wide reputation for being the baddest dudes since the Viet Cong.

They could easily defeat Hezbollah, they chose not to in order to spare Lebanon the destruction.

Hezbollah can't even prop up Assad's forces fighting other militias.

 

[WildCat]

In America, the gun-nut crowd has this mythical foe known as "Zombies" (which many of them substitute for blacks and Mexicans and such in their twisted little minds).

Uh, no. Zombies are a running joke not anything anybody believes in and certainly not a code word for blacks and Mexicans.

I see your understanding of US "gun nuts" is about equal to your understanding of the Israel-Palestine saga.

 

[WildCat]

I've always said that if Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Cong had been plopped down in Gaza in place of the Palestinians, a Buddist Temple and not a Mosque would now be standing on the Temple Mount, and the Israelies would be speaking Vietnamese.

The Viet Cong was destroyed during the Tet Offensive and never again were a viable fighting force. The NVA won the war, and only after the US pulled out.

 

[Jules Galen]

The Viet Cong was destroyed during the Tet Offensive and never again were a viable fighting force. The NVA won the war, and only after the US pulled out.

Hmmm...you write that so confidently, that I can't resist taking you down a peg, or two. Really. ya' got to quit believing all the lies about what happened in Vietnam - most often written by the same ilk that told General Westmorland that the Viet Cong were essentially defeated as the eve of Tet approached (http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1864.html):

In September 1967, the Vietcong launched a series of attacks on U.S. combat units. That was what Westmoreland had hoped for. Now, at last, the NLF was engaging in open warfare.

By the end of 1967, Westmoreland reported that the rebels had lost 90,000 men. He told President Lyndon B. Johnson that the Vietcong would be unable to replenish those kinds of numbers and that the end of the war was near.

Then Tet happened. And this...take a look at this map: http://www.history.army.mil/books/AMH-V2/AMH V2/map17b.jpg

The Viet Cong simultaneously hit more than 100 towns and cities, including 36 of 44 provincial capitals. The US asserts that the Viet Cong lost about 40,000 guys, and that they were crippled. BS!

Do you realize what is so wrong about the assertion that a loss of 40,000 guys is going to cripple the Viet Cong given the scope of what they did during Tet? Seriously...look at that Map: it mocks the assertion that killing 40,000 Viet Cong somehow crippled the ability of the Viet Cong Organization to wage war.

Seriously...think how many people it took to arm those supposed 40,000 Viet Cong - and to keep them in communications so that they could launch a combined attack - and to train them - and to feed them - and to transport them - and to provide them fake credentials so that they could get into the cities - and to do the scouting of targets - and to hide them in safe houses before they made the attack - and to make sure nosey neighbors didn't report anything suspicious - and to pay off the police so they would look the other way, etc., etc. etc..

Anyways, however large the Viet Cong were, they were many times larger than the number of men they lost in the Tet Offensive.

And so...suppose the last of the old Viet Cong Fighters were killed off in the Tet Offensive - you still have to contend with the rest of the Viet Cong Organization that is going to replace those fighters with Northerners and New Recruits. In other words, just because the Viet Cong shot a big wad during Tet didn't mean the Viet Cong disappeared - they just reloaded.

And this story should be a lesson for you. I mean, just because you can wipe out an organizations fighters, does not mean that organization can not remain essentially intact and get more fighters. And I believe that this is what we are seeing in the Mideast where we see a lot of terrorists dying, but the networks that support them remain intact and keep pumping out replacements.

Depressing, isn't it?

 

[WildCat]

Hmmm...you write that so confidently, that I can't resist taking you down a peg, or two. Really. ya' got to quit believing all the lies about what happened in Vietnam - most often written by the same ilk that told General Westmorland that the Viet Cong were essentially defeated as the eve of Tet approached (http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1864.html):

In September 1967, the Vietcong launched a series of attacks on U.S. combat units. That was what Westmoreland had hoped for. Now, at last, the NLF was engaging in open warfare.

By the end of 1967, Westmoreland reported that the rebels had lost 90,000 men. He told President Lyndon B. Johnson that the Vietcong would be unable to replenish those kinds of numbers and that the end of the war was near.

Then Tet happened. And this...take a look at this map: http://www.history.army.mil/books/AMH-V2/AMH V2/map17b.jpg

The Viet Cong simultaneously hit more than 100 towns and cities, including 36 of 44 provincial capitals. The US asserts that the Viet Cong lost about 40,000 guys, and that they were crippled. BS!

Do you realize what is so wrong about the assertion that a loss of 40,000 guys is going to cripple the Viet Cong given the scope of what they did during Tet? Seriously...look at that Map: it mocks the assertion that killing 40,000 Viet Cong somehow crippled the ability of the Viet Cong Organization to wage war.

Seriously...think how many people it took to arm those supposed 40,000 Viet Cong - and to keep them in communications so that they could launch a combined attack - and to train them - and to feed them - and to transport them - and to provide them fake credentials so that they could get into the cities - and to do the scouting of targets - and to hide them in safe houses before they made the attack - and to make sure nosey neighbors didn't report anything suspicious - and to pay off the police so they would look the other way, etc., etc. etc..

Anyways, however large the Viet Cong were, they were many times larger than the number of men they lost in the Tet Offensive.

And so...suppose the last of the old Viet Cong Fighters were killed off in the Tet Offensive - you still have to contend with the rest of the Viet Cong Organization that is going to replace those fighters with Northerners and New Recruits. In other words, just because the Viet Cong shot a big wad during Tet didn't mean the Viet Cong disappeared - they just reloaded.

And this story should be a lesson for you. I mean, just because you can wipe out an organizations fighters, does not mean that organization can not remain essentially intact and get more fighters. And I believe that this is what we are seeing in the Mideast where we see a lot of terrorists dying, but the networks that support them remain intact and keep pumping out replacements.

Depressing, isn't it?

Did you forget to post the part about how they remained a viable fighting force after Tet in order to "take me down a peg"?

eta:

The offensive was undertaken in the hope of triggering a general uprising, but urban Vietnamese did not respond as the Viet Cong anticipated. About 75,000 communist soldiers were killed or wounded, according to Trần Văn Trà, commander of the "B-2" district, which consisted of southern South Vietnam.[62] "We did not base ourselves on scientific calculation or a careful weighing of all factors, but...on an illusion based on our subjective desires", Trà concluded.[63] Earle G. Wheeler, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, estimated that Tet resulted in 40,000 communist dead[64] (compared to about 10,600 U.S. and South Vietnamese dead). "It is a major irony of the Vietnam War that our propaganda transformed this debacle into a brilliant victory. The truth was that Tet cost us half our forces. Our losses were so immense that we were unable to replace them with new recruits", said PRG Justice Minister Trương Như Tạng.[64] Tet had a profound psychological impact because South Vietnamese cities were otherwise safe areas during the war.[65] U.S. President Lyndon Johnson and Westmoreland argued that panicky news coverage gave the public the unfair perception that America had been defeated.[66]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_Cong

But what does he know, he was only a ranking member of the VC. I'm sure you are much more knowledgeable of the subject than he is.

 

[Jules Galen]

Did you forget to post the part about how they remained a viable fighting force after Tet in order to "take me down a peg"?

eta:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_Cong

But what does he know, he was only a ranking member of the VC. I'm sure you are much more knowledgeable of the subject than he is.

Yeah...according to the War Hawks we kept wiping out the Viet Cong over and over. But somehow, the Viet Cong were magical Zombies who could always return and start major offensives: http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/vc-launch-new-offensive

I don't drink that War-Hawk Kool-Aide.

 

[The Fool]

VC in Gaza?


The VC were quite ordinary. Part timers with old weapons who ran at the first chance. After Tet they were not much different. If you read about Vietnamese forces fighting Hard they were Regular NVA infiltrators who were first class troops..... and not local VC.

 

[Aridas]

Israel is playing nice? Well...I guess they are compared to 19th century Britain during the Boer Wars, or the Unites States in Vietnam.

Or a lot of other cases, for that matter. That certainly doesn't justify many actions done by the Israelis, of course, but it's evidently easy for a lot of people to lose sight of the larger picture or simply not care about it.

Think about it: If Israel went all HAM on the Pals like the Israeli Hawks keep suggesting, do you think that would be good for Israel? Do you think that would project an Image of Israel that would encourage monetary and political support from people around the world? I don't think it would.

World opinion, no. At least in the short term. Such things tend to die down relatively quickly, though, quite frankly. People care more about the living than the dead and gone, certainly. Had the Palestinian Arabs actually been slaughtered en masse back when Israel was engaging in ethnic cleansing, for example, we almost certainly wouldn't be having this discussion or similar ones.