The Terry Pratchett Thread

[Pipirr]

It's a reference to Chekhov's plays. For questions like this one, you can always look through the Annotated Pratchett File. It's a great resource for any Pratchett fan.

Thanks - I am greatly enlightened! And now have a new and diverting waste of time with the APF

 

[Spektator]

It hasn't showed up yet, but the Atlanta Radio Theatre Company has said that in the next week or so its adaptation of Guards! Guards! will show up on its podcast site, http://artcpodcast.org/.

 

[kiwimac]

You might well be interested to know that the Morpork and Ankh first turn up in "Feet of Clay" as part of the Vimes(original) coat of arms.

 

[Gaspode]

Making Money is out next week!

Does anyone know if Gaspode is definitely in the new book? Haven't seem him for a while. He's one of my favourite characters - as if you hadn't already guessed!

 

[Yllanes]

Well, there is a dog (as you can see in the cover). He is called Mr. Fusspot and is the chairman of the bank.

 

[Hawk one]

Well, I have now read the first two Tiffany books, as well as "The Last Hero".

And they are both good, but in a way, I sort of feel that in a way, "The Last Hero" was more of a "for younger readers" book.

Now, mind you, this isn't about the content, but about the style. The books about Tiffany are simply very, very much like the normal witch books. And Pratchett, while a very, very good writer, makes out Tiffany more mature than I suspect of a real 9-year old. But that's something pretty much any writer has a problem with, because frankly, our brains are working so differently when we've finally grown up, we can't really see it through the eyes of a kid anymore. Our memories of what we did back then - well, at least my memories - feel more and more skewed and "adjusted" to that I sort of insert what I thought about the situation (though the actions remain the same).

And the thing about "The Last Hero" was that it felt like it jumped from one place to the other, all the time. It was a good story, but a bit more fragmented. And while the illustrations were marvellous, they also helped breaking up the flow of story, thus making it appear a bit more like a book for younger readers...

But rereading it is pretty nice. That's when you're expecting all the illustrations, and can focus more on the story itself. Which is a typical Pratchett story.

 

[Gaspode]

Well, there is a dog (as you can see in the cover). He is called Mr. Fusspot and is the chairman of the bank.

Didn't you say he was in it earlier in the thread? Or was it a case of mistaken identity?

Oh well, we'll find out next week anyway.

 

[Yllanes]

Didn't you say he was in it earlier in the thread? Or was it a case of mistaken identity?

Oh well, we'll find out next week anyway.

I probably did. I misremembered a comment by someone who had read a proof copy.

I have not read the book, the new information comes from a review at Discworld Monthly. The important bit for me is that there is a lot of Vetinari and that Moist comes back with a new challenge.

And they are both good, but in a way, I sort of feel that in a way, "The Last Hero" was more of a "for younger readers" book.
[...]
And the thing about "The Last Hero" was that it felt like it jumped from one place to the other, all the time. It was a good story, but a bit more fragmented. And while the illustrations were marvellous, they also helped breaking up the flow of story, thus making it appear a bit more like a book for younger readers...

But rereading it is pretty nice. That's when you're expecting all the illustrations, and can focus more on the story itself. Which is a typical Pratchett story.

Really? I didn't get that impression. If anything, I noticed the illustrations more the second time I read it. Of course TLH doesn't have as complex a story as the mainstream books and I wouldn't like all of them to be like it, but it is a nice change. If we see it as a collection of scenes it is much better than The Colour of Magic/The Light Fantastic, even without illustrations. Speaking of illustrations, have you read The Art of Discworld? There are some very nice insights about the characters by Pratchett in that book.

I'm not convinced by the Tiffany books, probably becasue I don't find her interesting enough. Maybe they'll grow on me after a reread.

 

[eir_de_scania]

And while waiting I'm enjoying the Discworld almanac (even if some of the artists have taken, let's call it artistic license) and the Discworld Yearbook.

 

[Hawk one]

Really? I didn't get that impression. If anything, I noticed the illustrations more the second time I read it. Of course TLH doesn't have as complex a story as the mainstream books and I wouldn't like all of them to be like it, but it is a nice change. If we see it as a collection of scenes it is much better than The Colour of Magic/The Light Fantastic, even without illustrations. Speaking of illustrations, have you read The Art of Discworld? There are some very nice insights about the characters by Pratchett in that book.

Yeah, at least the cut-up scenes in TLH add up to a whole, eventually. And I think I noticed the illustrations differently the second time, not less. Hard to explain...

Nope, haven't read that one.

 

[Hawk one]

Oh, and I finally realised why the Tiffany series seems to be more grown-up than the other books, but eventually is about making it for younger readers.

It's about death.

Not Death, of course, but just death. It's treated very, very differently from your average Discworld book. Especially in "Wee Free Men", where the most important character (apart from Tiffany) is Granny Achings, who passed away two years before the story started. Rereading those passages, I realised that this book touches upon death in a much more serious way. In your average Discworld book, death isn't really all that worrisome (at least not for us readers). To paraphrase from several of them, you're over the worst, so might as well get on with your life. But in "The Wee Free Men", that Granny is gone is treated as something final (with a possible exception near the end, which is ambigiously written - deliberately so, I bet - in that it might all be in Tiffany's head). Especially since it's someone who the main character loved so much who had passed away.

And that is, in the end, something that makes it more suitable for younger readers. After all, we get plenty of opportunities to laugh at death (not to mention Death) in the other Discworld books (and most other current entertainment, for that matter). But before that time comes, maybe it's good to read about something many children tend to go through, and will relate to.

 

[H3LL]

I ordered the two new books on a discount from amazon and avoided the postage.

Will have to wait untill October to get them though.

Anyone posting visible spoilers on the new books will join the mimes.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks.
Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites

.
​

 

[MetalSeagull]

I just finished Making Money today. It was quite good. It had large doses of Vetinari, which is always a plus for me.

You can read the first chapter here:
http://www.harpercollins.com/features/pratchettbooks/excerpt.aspx?isbn=9780061161643

 

[Hawk one]

This isn't really spoiling anything, but putting in the tags nonetheless (Aren't I nice, H3ll?):

"Making Money" was mostly good, but I felt the ending was rather... confusing. Not just that things were resolved differently than what we'd expect, especially from Moist von Lipvig's part, but all the small threads that had been made throughout the book sort of culminated in a big mess... It seems very clear now that Pratchett is having some sort of overall plan for Discworld that wasn't visible in the past books. He might have had that vision for a while, but if he had, you wouldn't notice it (well, now that you start thinking about it, I'm sure you'll be able to spot all the clues. I know I'm starting to do it as I write this sentence.). And frankly, that sort of feels a bit annoying to me. I'm not sure why... Possibly because I want a "what matters is the here and now" feeling out of the Discworld books.

But overall, it wasn't a bad book as such. Just extra confusing, and with a bit too many distractions from the main plot. I'll see in a few days how it holds up rereading.

 

[Gaspode]

This isn't really spoiling anything, but putting in the tags nonetheless (Aren't I nice, H3ll?):

"Making Money" was mostly good, but I felt the ending was rather... confusing. Not just that things were resolved differently than what we'd expect, especially from Moist von Lipvig's part, but all the small threads that had been made throughout the book sort of culminated in a big mess... It seems very clear now that Pratchett is having some sort of overall plan for Discworld that wasn't visible in the past books. He might have had that vision for a while, but if he had, you wouldn't notice it (well, now that you start thinking about it, I'm sure you'll be able to spot all the clues. I know I'm starting to do it as I write this sentence.). And frankly, that sort of feels a bit annoying to me. I'm not sure why... Possibly because I want a "what matters is the here and now" feeling out of the Discworld books.

But overall, it wasn't a bad book as such. Just extra confusing, and with a bit too many distractions from the main plot. I'll see in a few days how it holds up rereading.

I haven't read Making Money yet but I've found that to be a theme in most of the Discworld books, in particular those involving Vimes and the City Watch. Lots of story threads with seemingly isolated events which all come together at the end. I find it frustrating because I can't remember every single one of these events. And Pratchett seems to have difficulty ending a book - they usually do end up in a mess.

It does detract from my enjoyment of the books. But only a little.

 

[Hawk one]

I haven't read Making Money yet but I've found that to be a theme in most of the Discworld books, in particular those involving Vimes and the City Watch. Lots of story threads with seemingly isolated events which all come together at the end. I find it frustrating because I can't remember every single one of these events. And Pratchett seems to have difficulty ending a book - they usually do end up in a mess.

It does detract from my enjoyment of the books. But only a little.

Well, I think MM is quite different from a Vimes book. I mean, first of all, they are supposed to be crime books (at least loosely), so naturally they can't reveal it all and will have to sneak in distractions to make you keep guessing who-dunnit. But in f.ex. Night Watch there was hardly any point of view in the entire book except Vimes' own.

And in Going Postal, there was pretty much no confusion, because I could feel in advance a general feeling of how this would be important later on (not specifically -how- it would be important, though). And when it was revealed, it made perfect sense. But some of the stuff in Making Money seemed to be in there for no real reason at all.

And in Thud!, to mention another example, the threads are more gradually resolved into the main story. Brick, for example, is resolved a bit over halfway into the book. And then comes Mr. Diamond. And then it's resolved who murdered Hamcrusher. And then it's resolved why they did it, along with resolving the whole Summoning Dark process. Whereas in MM, like I said, it was felt that all the resolutions were trying to squeeze into as few pages as physically possible, fighting over each precious word to give them the attention like people would fight over a sudden shower of hundred dollar bills.

But hey, that's just me. Of course, I happen to have a good memory (for things I find interesting) and being a fairly quick reader, so that might account for the different experiences we seem to have reading the books.

 

[Hawk one]

Oh, and I'm currently reading "Wintersmith". It's OK so far, but a good thing about it, is that it has one of those simply brilliant sentences that just leaps out of nowhere and attacks your brain swiftly and mercilessly, and making you keep giggling for a good while (not to mention making you write a run-on sentence to describe it). And it's so playful and delightful both in and out of context. And best of all, it's so simple, you'd think someone else would have written it by now:

No one likes an unexpected Morris dancer.

Really, even if the rest of the book stinks, I'm still satisfied simply from that sentence right there.

 

[Gaspode]

Well, I think MM is quite different from a Vimes book. I mean, first of all, they are supposed to be crime books (at least loosely), so naturally they can't reveal it all and will have to sneak in distractions to make you keep guessing who-dunnit. But in f.ex. Night Watch there was hardly any point of view in the entire book except Vimes' own.

And in Going Postal, there was pretty much no confusion, because I could feel in advance a general feeling of how this would be important later on (not specifically -how- it would be important, though). And when it was revealed, it made perfect sense. But some of the stuff in Making Money seemed to be in there for no real reason at all.

And in Thud!, to mention another example, the threads are more gradually resolved into the main story. Brick, for example, is resolved a bit over halfway into the book. And then comes Mr. Diamond. And then it's resolved who murdered Hamcrusher. And then it's resolved why they did it, along with resolving the whole Summoning Dark process. Whereas in MM, like I said, it was felt that all the resolutions were trying to squeeze into as few pages as physically possible, fighting over each precious word to give them the attention like people would fight over a sudden shower of hundred dollar bills.

But hey, that's just me. Of course, I happen to have a good memory (for things I find interesting) and being a fairly quick reader, so that might account for the different experiences we seem to have reading the books.

Actually, thinking about it, it is almost exclusively in the Vimes books that I find this many-threads-merging-into-one happening. But The Truth was also very like that which is not strictly a Vimes book. I do have trouble with this approach but that may be just me. And as much as I liked Thud it was again like that - even if it did resolve earlier in the book than usual.

Going Postal is a recent favourite of mine so I'm looking forward to Making Money on that basis alone. It's one of the few recent Discworld books that I've felt like rereading. And thanks for your review. After I've read it we can compare notes.

 

[Meri]

This isn't really spoiling anything, but putting in the tags nonetheless (Aren't I nice, H3ll?):

"Making Money" was mostly good, but I felt the ending was rather... confusing. Not just that things were resolved differently than what we'd expect, especially from Moist von Lipvig's part, but all the small threads that had been made throughout the book sort of culminated in a big mess... It seems very clear now that Pratchett is having some sort of overall plan for Discworld that wasn't visible in the past books. He might have had that vision for a while, but if he had, you wouldn't notice it (well, now that you start thinking about it, I'm sure you'll be able to spot all the clues. I know I'm starting to do it as I write this sentence.). And frankly, that sort of feels a bit annoying to me. I'm not sure why... Possibly because I want a "what matters is the here and now" feeling out of the Discworld books.

But overall, it wasn't a bad book as such. Just extra confusing, and with a bit too many distractions from the main plot. I'll see in a few days how it holds up rereading.

I know what you mean. After I finished the book, I was having so much trouble figuring out how everything had fit together, I decided to go ahead a re-read it. I just re-started it, so I'll see if that helps. Still I enjoyed the book, if only because it contained so much Moist and Vetinari. And besides, it was the most exciting book about banking and accountancy I've ever read.

 

[Hawk one]

Well, can't argue with you there, Meri. Another reason I have to marry you, I guess.