The Swinging Lifestyle

[Clancie]

Posted by SteveW

In our opinion, this is just recreational sex and is no different than water skiing. Why is it that some people find this so perverted?

Well, SteveW, to each his own.

But, since you asked, personally, I don't know of anything sexier than two people who share and express a total emotional and physical commitment to each other every chance they get!

 

[epepke]

Thank you for bringing the topic up.

I got involved with the lifestyle about seven years ago, mostly as a single male, though I did bring several female friends at times. I find it very emotionally healthy. The only problem is that my area suffers from a lack of party houses, and these days I do not have the means to go down to my favorites, which are mostly in the Orlando-Daytona corridor.

I think people are down on it because people just freak out about anything having to do with sex. I've found it safer, cleaner, and way the hell less pathological than going to bars or trying to meet people at random. Almost everyone in swinging seems to be respectful, careful, clean, and decent. I've only seen two females with Borderline Personality Disorder in swinging, and I have an unusually sensitive BPD detector.

Swinging also provides a check on jealousy, a totally stupid and destructive emotion. Maybe many people like jealousy because they like the things that it usually leads to: resentment, hatred, murder, rape, and so forth.

I think it would please most of the detractors if swingers were more like they imagined, evil, satanic insatiably sex-crazed people. Unfortunately for them, we aren't. We're mostly just ordinary people who like to be in an environment where acknowedging our sexuality is not considered crass. We think that, everywhere, there should be no reason for a polite, respectful sexual invitation to be met with a physical assault, and we like to be around people who feel similarly. In the swinging world, there is no shame, nor is there coercion, nor codependence, nor rape. Perhaps people outside swinging like this sort of thing and therefore think that a swinging environment is bad.

The swinging environment is also quite accepting. I've seen people from their 20's to their 70's, people with missing limbs, people of every possible ethnic background, people in wheelchairs, businesspeople and bikers alike, enjoying the environment. Perhaps this bothers people. Perhaps they think such people should just up and die. This is not a nice thing to be said, but it has to be said. If swinging were abolished, and pornography were abolished, there would really be no place for people who were different from some Ben Affleck/Christine Agulerra norm to express themselves as sexual. Maybe that's what people want. Maybe this is too harch, but for all the quasi-liberal hooplah about it, I don't see many people outside of swinging creating environments where non-Hollywood-compliant people can express their sexuality. They just want to bitch and moan.

It isn't even necessarily about having sex with other people. (I'm talking about the clubs now, which perhaps may be different from your experiences with advertisements.) It's mostly to be in an environment where it's OK to be sexual. I've seen many women in swinging who have no interest in having sex but like to show off. That's OK. There are those who consider it just an ordinary social gathering. That's OK, too. The point is that an invitation for sex, honorably and politely given, is going to get an honorable and polite response, whether yes or no.

Ironically, in swing clubs, the atmosphere is actually less sexual because of this. In any bar or other social gathering, people also think about sex, but they can't admit it, so their attempts to express it develop exaggerated, almost comic overtones. Swing clubs are far more relaxed than bars.

I've thought of writing an ethnographic monograph about this, but I can't imagine who would publish it.

 

[epepke]

My eternal non-rhetorical question.

Why being married if you want to have such a life-style?

There's a difference.

Which you wouldn't know about or care to know about because you've already decided, and so that's that.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

You're the judgemental one epeke. Just because I don't like swinging doesn't mean I judge swingers to be evil, satanic, etc.

The green eyed monster doesn't always lead to death, rape, etc. either. Otherwise 90% of us would be dead.

Most of us merely stated that it isn't for us, and if a person is all for it, then don't make it isn't one sided, and don't expect a relationship to survive it.

Yes I am scared of STD's, but the most clean looking person can have an STD. It doesn't have to do with 'cleanliness'.

Clubs? I never dated anyone I just met there. People who hang out at clubs are strangers to me, and I only go there with friends if ever (I don't remember the last time I went to a club).

Sex crazed? Who said only swingers were sex crazed? I'm sex crazed, and I'm monogamous.

One is very defensive for one who loves their lifestyle so much. I don't remember any of us non-swingers being so harshly judgemental to have you put up such a post chastising us so much. I'm sure you've met with judging, but I don't remember any harsh judgement in any posts here.

 

[epepke]

You're the judgemental one epeke. Just because I don't like swinging doesn't mean I judge swingers to be evil, satanic, etc.

I apologize for the tone of that posting; I did go over the top and brought resentments here that probably don't belong here, which are based on general observations of swinging I've heard over the years.

At the same time, why are you taking it so personally? I didn't name you, and I'm perfectly capable ot naming people. If the shoe doesn't fit, you don't have to wear it.

 

[uneasy]

A little story...

This might not technically be about swinging, because I think it's a term for couples, so what would I know?


I was doing a 50 mile group bicycling ride, and it when I got to the top of a big hill in the middle, I stopped to rest. It was a bad idea because it was a warm day, and as soon as the breeze of my motion was gone, sweat began pouring down into my eyes. I stopped next to couple other bicyclists who I think were a man and a wife.

"Do you swing?", he asked. I was rubbing my eyes, and that only made it worse. I could hardly see. "What?", I asked. "Do you swing?", he asked again. I was trying to open my eyes to look at him, and now I was trying to look at his wife too.

Then he explained what he meant, and he was actually saying "spin". He meant "spinning", a term for bicycling on stationary bicycles. I think people organize clubs to do it.

So I always wonder, was I just just going to keep saying "What?" or was I about to say, "I can't see, give me a minute, and I'll decide."

 

[kittynh]

well, and I think that everyone has said, "hey, it might be fine for you, I just don't see it working in my life" or "hey, it works for me". I think the pro swingers who might say, "If you don't swing, you have no chance for having no jelousy and someone is going to cheat, so only those that swing can have a happy marriage" - well, I don't agree with that.

Comfort, security, and an openess that comes with familiarity can lead to an interesting sexual life for many people. For others, not so. For many people emotions are tied into sexuality, and for others not. The world has many types of people, thank Ed.

 

[Roadtoad]

Just found this thread, so please forgive me if I repeat unnecessarily...

I realize there's a deep seated desire for variety in human beings, and there's certainly a great drive to "sow one's seed" as broadly as possible. But at some point, we kind of have to let the big head do the thinking for the little one.

And, no, I don't think I'd care to walk in on my wife getting banged by anyone else, regardless of gender.

This is the sort of thing you read about in Nancy Friday's books.

 

[Phaycops]

And, no, I don't think I'd care to walk in on my wife getting banged by anyone else, regardless of gender.

Again, "cheating" and "swinging" are NOT the same thing. If you unexpectedly walked in on your wife having sex with someone else, without telling you, then she's cheating. If you have an open relationship, OTOH, you would (ideally) know in advance when she'd be banging other people, and you would be prepared in advance for it. I'm not saying the two situations don't have similar motivations, but to equate cheating and open relationships or swinging is extremely disrespectful, not to mention disingenuous. In order to understand the lifestyle, you have to get out of the jealous, cheating frame of mind when thinking of it.

 

[Roadtoad]

Again, "cheating" and "swinging" are NOT the same thing. If you unexpectedly walked in on your wife having sex with someone else, without telling you, then she's cheating. If you have an open relationship, OTOH, you would (ideally) know in advance when she'd be banging other people, and you would be prepared in advance for it. I'm not saying the two situations don't have similar motivations, but to equate cheating and open relationships or swinging is extremely disrespectful, not to mention disingenuous. In order to understand the lifestyle, you have to get out of the jealous, cheating frame of mind when thinking of it.

I should have been a little clearer, I suspect. My intended statement was that I would not want to see my wife having sex with anyone else, whether I was aware of the relationsihp or not. An "open" relationship as described here is not something I would go for. Sure, there's a fantasy that many have of enjoying multiple partners, or swapping, or engaging in sex with people you've met only moments before.

On the other hand, as I've gotten older, I have grown to appreciate certain fidelities in my life. Marriage, to me, should be one of them.

If an open relationship works for you, great. It doesn't for the rest of us, I suspect.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

I apologize for the tone of that posting; I did go over the top and brought resentments here that probably don't belong here, which are based on general observations of swinging I've heard over the years.

At the same time, why are you taking it so personally? I didn't name you, and I'm perfectly capable ot naming people. If the shoe doesn't fit, you don't have to wear it.

I would say "we", but I can't speak for everyone. So I speak my opinion of the post.

The apology is nice, thank you

Now I'm all curious about your swinging experiences

 

[epepke]

well, and I think that everyone has said, "hey, it might be fine for you, I just don't see it working in my life" or "hey, it works for me". I think the pro swingers who might say, "If you don't swing, you have no chance for having no jelousy and someone is going to cheat, so only those that swing can have a happy marriage" - well, I don't agree with that.

As, I suppose, a "pro-swinger," I wouldn't say that. I would just point out that many swinging marriages work just fine. That doesn't mean that many non-swinging marriages don't work fine.

As far as jealousy goes, I think that swinging is a challenge to remove jealousy from one's makeup. Many people live happy lives without doing it. Many also lack jealousy without swinging. But swinging does test and check jealousy.

 

[epepke]

I would say "we", but I can't speak for everyone. So I speak my opinion of the post.

The apology is nice, thank you

Now I'm all curious about your swinging experiences

You're welcome.

There's one thing about your posting that I think was a misunderstanding. In the swinging lifestyle, "clean" means "recently tested for STDs and able to demonstrate it." I guess that you might have thought it had something to do with soap and water or wearing nice clothes or something like that. Swinging is full of autonyms, and it's sometimes hard for me to remember which ones I'm using. But the majority of swingers I know are very careful about STDs.

I have, of course, also had some lovers that I met outside of swinging. This experience is probably no different from what the majority of people experience in their lives. My experience, however, is that all the women I have been with outisde of swinging, whether long-term lovers or not, have been completely freaked out that I carry special polyurethane condoms and lubricants and single-use spermicidal applicators with Nonoxynol-9. It's like, to them, actually being prepared and careful is unromantic or somthing. It is strange to think that twenty years after AIDS women have not adapted, but it seems to me that they haven't. I should add that this applies no matter how long the onset of the relationship. I could and have courted a woman for six months without sex, and when the time comes, inevitably, smoke comes out of her ears when she finds out that I am carrying condoms.

On the other hand, nobody in swinging freaks out, although some of them find the polyurethane condoms a novelty.

But what are you curious about?

There are a couple of anecdotes that stand out for me. One was in a more formal swing club, the kind that are set up much like the Elks club. A guy had a birthday. They sat him in a chair on a stage, and a somewhat older woman did a striptease for him. It was way tamer than any strip club; she didn't even take off her panties. But it was a gentle sort of appreciation, and very nice, I thought.

Another was an affirmation of wedding vows. The bride dressed up in an admittedly sexy version of a bride's outfit. Neither of them swung (swang? swinged?) with anybody else (the autonym is "partied"). It wasn't entirely serious. The "preacher" (who was the owner of the party house) asked, "Do you vow to do unto others as you do to him?" She replied, "Wait a minute, I don't know about that!" It was definitely a party atmosphere, and people were laughing and cheering. There was a band that night, too.

Or are you asking about the sexual experiences?

They were mostly the same as sexual experiences everywhere, except that condoms and lubricants are always readily available, courtesy of the house. A few orgies, but mostly one on one.

I don't know that it is the sexual experiences that attract me so much to swinging. I went into swinging when I was combatting my shyness, and it helped a lot. What I appreciated most was the environment, where sexuality was taken for granted and therefore relaxed.

Not that I mean to say that I did not have sex with a fair number of women in swing clubs, as I did. I missed out on sleeping around in high school and college, and it has been enjoyable to make up for lost time. Not that I decry being monogamous; I have done that, too, and it has its own special qualities. Swinging is not superior nor inferior; simply different.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Good post, and I appreciate the opportunity for the insight. I really don't understand the non-swingers seeing that you are ready for anything as being a thing to be freaked out about. I always appreciated that sort of thing. I find being scared to be intimate because of not having those things onhand as unromantic.

I never pictured swinging as unresponsible, but I thought there was more group stuff-4 people, not two in a room. Is that my biggest misconception?

I have been with my partner with others (another couple) around, but there was no intermingling or switching. I don't like anyone but my partner touching me for some odd reason. I'm weird that way though, I don't even like hugs from other women-I'm not touchy feely unless it's my partner or my kids.

You can thus see why swinging just doesn't appeal to me. It would be different if I were more of a people person for sure. Are you more of a people person now that you are less shy?

 

[epepke]

Good post, and I appreciate the opportunity for the insight. I really don't understand the non-swingers seeing that you are ready for anything as being a thing to be freaked out about. I always appreciated that sort of thing. I find being scared to be intimate because of not having those things onhand as unromantic.

I don't understand it either, but it seems to be the case. Even in fairly long-onset relationships, which a courting period of months, I've found the majority of women to get freaked out. Even women who also carry condoms and offer them to me are taken aback to find that I have my own.

There was a period of two years of my adult life during which I had no sex at all. I still managed to keep fresh condoms in ready supply at all times. It was kind of depressing going back to the drug store when they had expired and buying new ones, but I did it.

I think there is a schizm between what people say they find acceptable and what they actually do find acceptable. Well, at least for women. I don't know about men, as I don't have sex with men, so I'm not in a position to know.

I never pictured swinging as unresponsible, but I thought there was more group stuff-4 people, not two in a room. Is that my biggest misconception?

It varies. I'd say a good half of the encounters are two people. Most of the rest are two or more couples in the same room. Or one person will serially take on several others. Actual orgies are relatively infrequent. They are kind of fun, but as you might expect, they're also fairly comic.

You can thus see why swinging just doesn't appeal to me. It would be different if I were more of a people person for sure. Are you more of a people person now that you are less shy?

De gustibus non disputandum est.

It's probably a bad time to ask me, as I'm pretty antisocial these days. There are other factors, such as poverty, right now. I find it difficult to keep a healthy self-image in the absence of the regular reminder of value of a paycheck, so I have a bit of a pissy attitude.

I think I've always wanted to be around people; it's just been very difficult to manage. Certaily I don't mind hugs, from men or women.

 

[Boo]

One of the best guidelines I ever saw about 'alternative lifestyles' was Safe, Sane and Consentual (for all parties involve including non present spouses or significant others). Nothing is ever done, said, or inferred in the presence of a minor or someone that was not already involved or had consented to whatever 'event' was to take place.

Seems to me that what happens behind closed doors should stay there. 'Don't ask, don't tell' kinda makes sense.


Boo

 

[epepke]

One of the best guidelines I ever saw about 'alternative lifestyles' was Safe, Sane and Consentual (for all parties involve including non present spouses or significant others). Nothing is ever done, said, or inferred in the presence of a minor or someone that was not already involved or had consented to whatever 'event' was to take place.

There's also, usually, a safe word. That's a word that means, whatever you're doing, stop immediately. Some party houses have a safe word in the rules; for one I used to go to, the safe word was "Uncle."

 

[Evolving_ant]

I just wondered what most people's opinion is about sex outside of, or perhaps in addition to, marriage. We have been "swinging" for a number of years now. We tend to like playing with other couples and single females for adult fun. In our opinion, this is just recreational sex and is no different than water skiing. Why is it that some people find this so perverted?

Much to the upset of my some of my best and closest friends, I have not been able to reach a very positive view of the whole swinging deal. Swingers tend to find people like myself judgemental, prudish and narrow-minded whereas I believe I make them feel uncomfortable merely because my understanding of love and intimacy is different to theirs. I don't say 'gosh you're bad' when I am informed of their swinging forays, I don't even think that. I simply just _don't get it_ . I could not...COULD NOT...profess to love someone and then want to have sex with someone else. If I could have sex with someone else, that is a sure sign for me, that I do not love the person I'm with. For me, the relationship would take on the proportions of a public swimming pool and that would just kill it. I have also never been able to disconnect sex from meaningful contact with another person. I have walked that path, thinking that perhaps I would learn something and become a more liberated human being but it just made me a more and more miserable human being. I simply dont see the point of having sex with people I dont care for on a very deep level. I could never see sex as being something 'recreational'. I don't think there is something wrong with me. This is just the way I am. I don't judge others for having a different view from me, I just get peeved when _I_ am the one being judged as somehow intimately incompetent because sex necessarily goes with love for me and I mean love which is very different from being great mates but not uninclusive of that ( sorry, I probably just made the word uninclusive up...but you know what I mean). Prudish as it sounds, loveless sex makes me feel tainted and very disconnected from myself and other.

As I said, a very personal understanding, and I add, experience.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

I just get peeved when _I_ am the one being judged as somehow intimately incompetent because sex necessarily goes with love for me and I mean love which is very different from being great mates but not uninclusive of that ( sorry, I probably just made the word uninclusive up...but you know what I mean). Prudish as it sounds, loveless sex makes me feel tainted and very disconnected from myself and other.

I hear ya.

They say there are two evolutionary paths when it comes to relationships.

The one is where men go about impregnating many women to get lots of offspring. This results in offspring that have no support from their father, and thus may not survive. Even with stepfathers, the children don't have as good a chance if both biological parents actively raised them.

The other path is to have fewer children with one partner, but increase the chances that all of the children will thrive.

One is obviously not monogamous, and could result in women that have less of a drive for monogamy should they survive growing up in a one parent situation.

Thus, I can certainly see how there could be quite a few swingers that don't share the monogamous drive that quite a few posters here have.

With birth control there will be less illegitimate children born to swingers, and could result in less and less people with a swinging type outlook. But there are still folks who get married and have kids, and then break up because of cheating or whatever.

I just simply look at it as there are definitely two types of people out there. It would be difficult to live one way, but feel another.

This is one reason why people need to be honest with each other. Maybe a swinger could commit to one person if it is the right person? Who knows. I just didn't want to marry someone that didn't have my monogamous outlook. It's hard to find a guy who you know for sure would have a better chance of being the monogamous type. Women certainly do better in monogamy, so you can see why women would have the 'monogamous drive'.

 

[epepke]

They say there are two evolutionary paths when it comes to relationships.

In the interests of completeness, there's a third.

It is a two-tiered approach where a woman has children with a dangerous man, possibly a brutal sociopath, and then later looks for a gentle man to help raise them.

This seems to be, by a fairly large margin, the majority way to do things in the American South. I cannot speak for other areas; possibly in the Midwest this is rarer. It may be a largely modern phenomenon, but then again, it may have gone on for a long time in different forms.