The supernatural

[heydarian saeed]

Heydarian, never mind all your pseudo scientific claims for the Quran, what about the fact the Quran says the heaven and earth were created in six days?

If you go to your mind. And your memory works properly. I described evolution in 16 messages. Evolution in the Qur'an is not just about living things and humans. Evolution has begun since the beginning of the universe's expansion, about 14 billion years ago. Nuclear evolution - the chemical evolution and eventual creation of life that began about 3.5 billion years ago on Earth. These fourteen billion years have been different periods that God has named in the Qur'an and the Bible with the phrase 6 days. 6 days means 6 eras, which have lasted 14 billion years so far. Please seek the help of scientists in astronomy, geology, biochemistry, chemistry, physics, quantum, biology, and Biogenesis
to understand this. I have written a summary of my studies in all these sciences in 16 of my messages And review 48 verses of the Qur'an that say this entitled "Evolution from the perspective of the Qur'an". Please read.
Good luck

 

[Scorpion]

If you go to your mind. And your memory works properly. I described evolution in 16 messages. Evolution in the Qur'an is not just about living things and humans. Evolution has begun since the beginning of the universe's expansion, about 14 billion years ago. Nuclear evolution - the chemical evolution and eventual creation of life that began about 3.5 billion years ago on Earth. These fourteen billion years have been different periods that God has named in the Qur'an and the Bible with the phrase 6 days. 6 days means 6 eras, which have lasted 14 billion years so far. Please seek the help of scientists in astronomy, geology, biochemistry, chemistry, physics, quantum, biology, and Biogenesis
to understand this. I have written a summary of my studies in all these sciences in 16 of my messages And review 48 verses of the Qur'an that say this entitled "Evolution from the perspective of the Qur'an". Please read.
Good luck

That is total and utter bunk. The bible says the creation took six days and that one of God days is a thousand years, so the bible says creation took six thousand years and the Quran exactly repeats this myth. because the Quran is largely plagiarism from the bible.

 

[Scorpion]

What the Quran really says:

The Quran says the earth was created before the heavens (sura 2.29)
The Quran says the sun orbits the earth (sura 21.33 sura 36.40)
The Quran says the sun rests and is reset every dawn (sura 36.38)
The Quran says the heaven and earth were created in six thousand years

Muslim Imams will say differently, but they are liars who must know this is what the Quran really says, however there would be no money in the mosques coffers, and the 50 or more Muslim country's would collapse.
Because to admit the above is what the quran really says would be to admit it is not the words of God.

So Muslim Imams conspire to deceive the population with carefully crafted lies, that attempt to give deeper meaning to the Quranic verses.So when the quran says, at sura 21.33 and 36.40 that the sun has an orbit, Imams falsely claim this is a great revelation, because Muhammad knew the sun had an orbit in the galaxy. But this is utter lies, and the quran is actually saying the sun orbits the earth, and I can prove it with the following hadith.

Hadith Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421:
Narrated Abu Dhar:

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (36.38)

As can be seen it says that if the sun changed direction it would rise in the west. But if the sun changed direction in its orbit in the galaxy it would make no difference to the sun rising in the east, because it is the rotation of the earth that causes the appearance of the sun in the east. So this proves that the claim the quran says the sun has an orbit in the galaxy is wrong.

 

[Scorpion]

heydarian, I have posted the following before, but you obviously need reminding what I have written on the subject.

The quran says that the heaven and earth were created in six days. Muslims claim that the Arabic for word day can mean an
undetermined amount of time. But I suggest this makes no difference, as The bible was written in Aramic, and Hebrew, then translated into Greek and then into English. So it does not matter that the word for Arabic day is obscure, because it is clear that the quran is copying the bible on the matter of the six days of creation, and the bible also says that a day in the sight of God is as a thousand years to us. This means that both the bible and the quran are saying that God created the heaven and earth in six thousand years. As this is obviously not the case, I put it to you that the real source of the creation myth as it appears in the quran is the bible.

We know the universe has existed for around fourteen billion years,
and we have hubble space telescope pictures of the edge of the universe to prove it.
We also know that the age of the earth is around four billion years, so we know that the universe existed for ten billion years before the earth was formed. We also know that the earth is made of atoms that were formed in the first stars, and ejected into space after they exploded. So planets could not even have been created for the first few billion years of the universe, because there were no heavy atoms in existence. So the bible is wrong and the quran exactly repeats this mythology.

Quran, sura 7.54 Lo! your Lord is Allah who created the heavens and the earth in six days.

Quran, sura 10.3 Lo! your Lord is Allah who created the heaven and earth in six days.

Quran, sura 11.7 And He it is. Who created the heavens and the earth in six days.

Quran, sura 25.59 Who created the heaven and earth and all that is between them in six days.

Quran, sura 50.38 And surely We created the heaven and earth, and all that is between them, in six days.

Quran, sura 57.4 He it is Who created the heaven and earth in six days.

Quran, sura 22.47 A day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.

Quran, sura 32.4 Allah it is who created the heaven and earth, and that which is between them, in six days. The he mounted the throne. You have not beside him a protecting friend or mediator. Will you not then remember?

Quran, sura 32.5 He directs the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascends unto him, in a day whereof the measure is a thousand years of that you reckon.

Here are the bible sources for these texts.

Bible, Genesis 1.31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Bible 2Peter 3.8 But beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is as with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[IanS]

Thank you for your compassion for me. I do not see the need for compassion for me. But you are completely wrong about the Qur'an and God. As I said before, your knowledge of the Qur'an and its content and the meaning of its sentences is very small and weak. You are not in a position to critique the Qur'an. Your effort is in vain. Thank you again

We are all in a perfect position to criticise and dismiss the Quran. The Quran is a book claiming a supernatural God, miracles, heaven and hell etc.

Educated people today in the 21st century know from real independent fully tested science, that all such things, which are the absolute foundation of the Quran, are almost certainly wrong, untrue, and merely uneducated mythical superstitions.

Nobody here needs to read the Quran to know that supernatural gods of creation have been "proved" so vanishingly unlikely as to be not worthy of any serious educated consideration. All of science shows that such things are mere myth.

And by the way - the entire bottom-line judgement on all of the beliefs that you have expressed hundreds of times here, is whether you can back-it-up with genuine independent published science ... you have failed entirely to do that.

You have no genuine honest evidence at all.

But on the contrary all of the vast evidence from science is completyly against you to a degree which effectively amounts to an absolute "proof" that you are wrong.

Where are the real published science papers claiming to have evidence of God telling Mohamed about modern-day science in the 7th century? … you have no honest evidence for your beliefs at all, and all of science shows that you are wrong.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Heydarian, what could convince you that you are wrong?

 

[Chanakya]

heydarian, yet again, one more time, you've done exactly that same thing. With pretty flowery words you've responded to my jokes and general comments, but my actual substantial comments --- or at least, my pointing to the substance in Pixel42's comments, that you've been doing your very best to gloss over all of this time even while playing out a charade of respecting her and her words --- in my post #2568 addressed to you.

This is so utterly utterly brazen that words fail me. What kind of excuse can you possibly put up to explain away your ignoring this post of mine, even as you put up this whole show over exchanging wordy pleasantries off of my less than substantial posts and jokes?

To make it easier for you to engage with what was said there --- or at least, let me rephrase that, to make it that much more difficult for you to keep on ignoring what was said there --- let me briefly recap:

You'd finanally finally finally understood, or claimed to, the meaning of the term "begging the question" and "circularity", the logical fallacy that Pixel42 has been patiently exposing in your lengthy expositions on evolution. In as much as you finally understand what "circularity" is and what "begging the question" refers to, no doubt you now see how Pixel42's posts --- that you claim you've been reading with attention and "respect" --- clearly show that your argument about evolution are fallacious. Are you able to clearly admit that? Further, in as much your arguments about evolution were meant to prop up your broader arguments about the Quran pre-empting evolution and science in general, and your larger argument about the infallibility of the Quran, to that extent this dents your overall broad position about the Quran itself. Are you able to clearly admit that?

 

[Chanakya]

With zero reference to my previous post, question:

Those 72 virgins, are they NPCs? I mean, I'm this faithful Allah-fearing Muslim man that lays my mat and says my prayers five times every day, and diligently jumps through all the hoops all of my life, and even maybe lays my life down in service of Allah and the wise Mo, whatever. So I get my 72 virgins. Cool, wonderful.

But what of those 72 virgins, though? They're now saddled with a bearded smelly ugly crazy POS that no one would want to come within a mile of, and what's more must service this monstrosity for all eternity. (By "service him" I only mean 'feed him luscious grapes'!)

So anyway, what depraved sins have these 72 committed, to have to face this eternal punishment? No doubt they'd prefer being roasted for eternity at the other place, to having, for all eternity, to service the smelly ugly crazy weirdo they've been allotted to, surely. And that means that for every righteous Muslim man there must be 72 virgins who've lived and died in irredeemable sin. Right? Or are they NPCs, that Allah creates directly in the afterlife?

 

[Little 10 Toes]

How do ants speak Hebrew? Third or fourth time asking.

 

[Scorpion]

With zero reference to my previous post, question:

Those 72 virgins, are they NPCs? I mean, I'm this faithful Allah-fearing Muslim man that lays my mat and says my prayers five times every day, and diligently jumps through all the hoops all of my life, and even maybe lays my life down in service of Allah and the wise Mo, whatever. So I get my 72 virgins. Cool, wonderful.

But what of those 72 virgins, though? They're now saddled with a bearded smelly ugly crazy POS that no one would want to come within a mile of, and what's more must service this monstrosity for all eternity. (By "service him" I only mean 'feed him luscious grapes'!)

So anyway, what depraved sins have these 72 committed, to have to face this eternal punishment? No doubt they'd prefer being roasted for eternity at the other place, to having, for all eternity, to service the smelly ugly crazy weirdo they've been allotted to, surely. And that means that for every righteous Muslim man there must be 72 virgins who've lived and died in irredeemable sin. Right? Or are they NPCs, that Allah creates directly in the afterlife?

In case you don't know the source of the 72 wives story, it is not in the Quran. It comes from the following hadith, which is not highly reputed.

Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."

 

[IanS]

If you go to your mind. And your memory works properly. I described evolution in 16 messages. Evolution in the Qur'an is not just about living things and humans. Evolution has begun since the beginning of the universe's expansion, about 14 billion years ago.

Firstly - you are not in a position to "describe evolution" to us, because you do not understand what "evolution" is!

Secondly - when we talk about "evolution" as discovered & described by Darwin and first published by him in 1859, we mean (and science means) the way that living species on Earth have formed over a period of time through a process of change. That is what the scientific study of evolution by biologists means ... it's a process that takes place on the planet Earth with living creatures ...

... the way that our universe probably formed in a Big Bang process and the way that process resulted in the expanding formation of various energy fields and particle-fields, eventually leading to the formation of stars and planets, is not actually "evolution" in that same sense at all. That is not biological evolution of living species.

And thirdly - there is no description in the Quran of either Darwin's discovery for biological evolution of species on planet Earth, or for any Big Bang process leading to the structure of space that we can observe today ... there is nothing at all about any of that described anywhere in your religious book.


Please produce the current-day biology resreach papers that claim to show how God described Darwins evolution of living species 1400 years ago in the Quran ...

... produce the genuine science papers please.

 

[Chanakya]

In case you don't know the source of the 72 wives story, it is not in the Quran. It comes from the following hadith, which is not highly reputed.

Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."

Oh, ok. No, I hadn't known, thanks for clearing that up. And apparently not all hadiths are accepted as authoritative, not even by the religious, right? So, fair's fair, laughing at the Quran-worshipers by pointing to the 72 virgins is kind of laughing at a strawman, even if that's a strawman one of their own has put up.

But what a bummer. You start wondering if you might be interested in a harem consisting of 36 willing submissive wives, and it turns out the LDS no longer let you do that. So you next wonder if, in that case, 72 imaginary virgins in an imaginary afterlife might be fun, and it turns out that that that's a tall tale spun by some crazy weirdo long ago, that none of the other crazy weirdos, who have no problem believing all sorts of other crazy stuff, give credence to. At this rate I might just have to spit on my hands and go start a cult of my own (peace be unto me).

 

[junkshop]

Hello
Not thinking about the difference between the apparent meaning of the verse you read and my interpretation may have raised many questions. I ask you to read this explanation as well. The word hui in this verse has at least 7 meanings. One of its meanings is "fall" and "destruction". Surely God intends to tell us something important with this important oath. In the next 5 verses, verse 6, he says that the Holy Spirit travels between the two worlds. That is, between the unseen and the material world. Of course, I have said before that he is not the unseen of the world. No one knows what but God. Therefore, the meaning of the world is not correct for the unseen. In fact, the Holy Spirit has a mission To convey the message of God to Muhammad in the material world from the unseen. It tells the truth of revelation. There is no material determination in the unseen. From here he wants to deliver the revelation to Muhammad. Here is the concept of quantum physics. That is, the Mohi channel is a wormhole that is connected to a black hole. This is the channel of revelation. He emphasizes this issue again and says in verse 18 that this is one of the great signs of God. Which Muhammad sees in revelation and how the process of revelation. After this article, I ask you now to see how beautiful and rhythmic the selected words are arranged in 18 verses and by the end of the surah. Like a beautiful poem with a love song ...
Incredibly beautiful, it combines modern science, poetry and song. Amazing. I personally enjoy reading it. That's why I say it is unique. It is not just a claim. It is true. See for yourself and read.
Wishing you success.

Heydarian,

Sorry to have wasted your time, but you seem to have misunderstood my post. I wasn't asking about your interpretation of the quoran, I was musing on the discrepancies between the translations provided by you and by Google.

 

[Prometheus]

Temba, his arms wide.

Geller on Tonight?

 

[heydarian saeed]

Heydarian,

Sorry to have wasted your time, but you seem to have misunderstood my post. I wasn't asking about your interpretation of the quoran, I was musing on the discrepancies between the translations provided by you and by Google.

Hi dear friend. I apologize for my mistake.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Hafez says:
That beautiful Shirazi Turk, took control and my heart stole,
I'll give Samarkand & Bukhara, for her Hindu beauty mole.
O wine-bearer bring me wine, such wine not found in Heavens
By running brooks, in flowery fields, spend your days and stroll.
Alas, these sweet gypsy clowns, these agitators of our town
Took the patience of my heart, like looting Turks take their toll.
Such unfinished love as ours, the Beloved has no need,
For the Perfect Beauty, frills and adornments play no role.
I came to know Joseph's goodness, that daily would increase
Even the chaste Mistress succumbed to the love she would extol.
Whether profane or even cursed, I'll reply only in praise
Sweetness of tongue and the lips, even bitterness would enthrall.
Heed the advice of the wise, make your most endeared goal,
The fortunate blessed youth, listen to the old wise soul.
Tell tales of song and wine, seek not secrets of the world,
None has found and no-one will, knowledge leaves this riddle whole.
You composed poems and sang, Hafiz, you spent your days well
Venus wedded to your songs, in the firmaments' inverted bowl.
Dedicated to good friends

 

[heydarian saeed]

Firstly - you are not in a position to "describe evolution" to us, because you do not understand what "evolution" is!

Secondly - when we talk about "evolution" as discovered & described by Darwin and first published by him in 1859, we mean (and science means) the way that living species on Earth have formed over a period of time through a process of change. That is what the scientific study of evolution by biologists means ... it's a process that takes place on the planet Earth with living creatures ...

... the way that our universe probably formed in a Big Bang process and the way that process resulted in the expanding formation of various energy fields and particle-fields, eventually leading to the formation of stars and planets, is not actually "evolution" in that same sense at all. That is not biological evolution of living species.

And thirdly - there is no description in the Quran of either Darwin's discovery for biological evolution of species on planet Earth, or for any Big Bang process leading to the structure of space that we can observe today ... there is nothing at all about any of that described anywhere in your religious book.


Please produce the current-day biology resreach papers that claim to show how God described Darwins evolution of living species 1400 years ago in the Quran ...

... produce the genuine science papers please.

Hello
Darwin's efforts are commendable. And we do not deny it. But he has proposed only a part of the process of evolution related to living beings and human beings. And has been studied since about 460 million years ago. While for the creation of life on Earth, this process requires nuclear and chemical evolution. And this process has started from the beginning of the expansion of the universe. The 6 days of God's creation mean six evolutionary periods that lasted approximately 14 billion years. This has been proven by science. Science proves all scientific content in the Qur'an. And many unknowns have not yet reached science. But it is mentioned in the Qur'an. To be motivated to find it by humans. We fully understand what you mean. We are aware of all your discussions. Reality and truth are not hidden from us. Be sure.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

So, you're just down to making it up as you go along.

Again, a true god would not *need* your interpretation to make things clear, it could do so itself. Any god that needs a prophet and books to convince others is not a god.

And you keep glossing over the fact that if evolution were directed by a god, that god is a total incompetent at best and malicious at worst. Any cursory glance at the genetic makeup of life shows things that could be designed better.

 

[Mojo]

And many unknowns have not yet reached science. But it is mentioned in the Qur'an. To be motivated to find it by humans.

Such as? Please give references.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Oh, ok. No, I hadn't known, thanks for clearing that up. And apparently not all hadiths are accepted as authoritative, not even by the religious, right? So, fair's fair, laughing at the Quran-worshipers by pointing to the 72 virgins is kind of laughing at a strawman, even if that's a strawman one of their own has put up.

But what a bummer. You start wondering if you might be interested in a harem consisting of 36 willing submissive wives, and it turns out the LDS no longer let you do that. So you next wonder if, in that case, 72 imaginary virgins in an imaginary afterlife might be fun, and it turns out that that that's a tall tale spun by some crazy weirdo long ago, that none of the other crazy weirdos, who have no problem believing all sorts of other crazy stuff, give credence to. At this rate I might just have to spit on my hands and go start a cult of my own (peace be unto me).

Do not bother yourself too much. Use your efforts in the way of science. These are what the scorpion said. None of them have the correct documentation. By the way, most of the narrations in Islam are storytelling. And it is nothing but superstition. Hear from me that I am a Muslim: Heaven and Hell are of this material world. There is nothing supernatural about it. The descriptions of heaven and hell through narrations are just superstitious storytelling. See what God has said in the Qur'an. Let me give you an example. God says heavenly women. But in the interpretation and meaning of the translators, they say: very beautiful women with big black eyes who are unique. This is nothing more than a lie. The women of heaven are just like the women of the world. Let me say in your language that sex is one in the world and in heaven. There is no difference between them.
These superstitious storytelling were meant to encourage ignorant people to religion. Instead of telling the correct meaning and interpretation of the Qur'an and the correct method of the Prophet, they fabricated these superstitions and told them to the people. Unfortunately, the Muslim people are still caught up in these worthless stories. There is marriage in heaven like in the world. There is a servant. There is fruit, water and wine. Like this world. See verse 2/25 says: When the people of Paradise see the blessings of Paradise, they say: I have seen these before in the world. Yes that's right. These blessings are the things of the world. They are the same fruits and the most beautiful women in the world. Not more than this. I know you are not superstitious. Unfortunately, Muslims are very superstitious. All religions are superstitious in all religions of the world. Very few religious people are realistic.
I am not a superstitious person at all. And I see these words of the scorpion that he says about the Qur'an and hadiths as superstitions. And I do not believe in that. I agree with you on this issue. Be sure. Only science and realism is my approach.