The supernatural

[heydarian saeed]

I like the explanation some Muslims give for the baggy seats of their pants: A tradition says that the next prophet will be born to a man, and it may happen unexpectedly.

Thus the popularity of buggering in many (suspiciously many?) Muslim countries is justified. A bit snickeringly, but hey, who says Mohammed had no sense of humor?

Exactly . Muhammad's life history says: "Muhammad was handsome and well-mannered. He treated people with laughter, smiles and humor. No one saw anger and violence in Muhammad's face. During the war, Muhammad's noble uncle, Hamza The killer said, "I was ordered to kill Hamza, but I regret it. Muhammad said, 'Let him go. I just never want to see you.' Hamza was like a pillar of Islam for Muhammad." "And it was extremely important." Hamza's killer was released.

 

[Lothian]

Heydarian,

Can I suggest as a follow up you explain how everything we know about respiratory diseases in marsupials can be found in " The very hungry caterpillar" by Eric Carle.

I can't believe you would find worse links there than you have between the words in the Qur'an and sub atomic physics

 

[Mojo]

Hi. You did not notice that I said: there is no supernatural.

Do you realise that the post you started the thread with is still visible?

Hi
I did some research in the lab to prove the supernatural and I am attaching a written article Please read and comment I answered

 

[MarkCorrigan]

You're preaching again. Answer people's questions.

 

[IanS]

Hi. You did not notice that I said: there is no supernatural. I read the Quran more carefully. And I saw that there is no verse for the supernatural!
... etc etc ... <all cut out for sake bervity> ...

The God that you claim is Supernatural!

You are claiming a supernatural God who does everything through supernaturatal powers!


But tell me this - how did God create humans?

 

[Scorpion]

Heydarian, your post 1991 seems a lot of text that boils down to your posting that some airhead bimbo named Karen Armstrong wrote a book saying Muhammad was a nice guy, and we are all supposed to believe her. Well we have minds of our own here and a small amount of research into the Hadiths soon shows Muhammad's true character.

Here is a reputable hadith in which Muhammad has a Jew and Jewess stoned to death.

Bukhari
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 809:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. "What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?" They replied, "Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya." 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Allah's Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah." The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, "Lift up your hand." Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah's Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn 'Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess.

Here is a truly cruel hadith showing Muhammad's true nature.

Hadith Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 794: Narrated Anas:

Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.

Here is a hadith where Muhammad orders a spy killed

Hadith Bukhari
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 286:
Narrated Salama bin Al-Akwa:

"An infidel spy came to the Prophet while he was on a journey. The spy sat with the companions of the Prophet and started talking and then went away. The Prophet said (to his companions), 'Chase and kill him.' So, I killed him." The Prophet then gave him the belongings of the killed spy (in addition to his share of the war booty).

 

[Scorpion]

Hi The unseen is not a world or a universe. Only God knows the unseen. There is. But it does not have any material designations. Nobody knows what? Anyone who talks about the unseen is lying. Only God knows the unseen. We have no information about it. These are the words of the Qur'an.

The quran is bunk. I have spent much of my life in spiritualist churches and had many evidential messages from the spirits of my grandparents.
There are many spiritualist mediums who can see or hear or feel the spirits.
I myself have had some experience of feeling psychic energy as I have said on my thread, scorpions spiritualism.

How scorpion lies that: Muhammad made the Qur'an himself! Or stolen from the Bible! Again, be careful: Muhammad was illiterate. How can an illiterate person do this important work? The lies and nonsense About God, Muhammad and the Qur'an of the scorpion and the like are shameful. We hate extremism.

I have written a lot about the Quran on this thread, and I leave it to people other than you judge if my posts about the Quran are rational. The idea Muhammad was illiterate is Muslim propaganda. Either he could read the Greek bible, or someone read it to him. In my last post above, the hadith says Muhammad sent for the Torah and had it read to him. It should be completely obvious to a brain dead mule that the Quran is largely stolen from the bible.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Everything you just said is wrong. I could dismantle it point by point.

But you do not care. You cling to superstitious nonsense beliefs regardless of what anyone might say. Gods, demons, angels, djinns, magic books, these all make sense to you somehow. Where is the Higgs in all of that junk. Nowhere, that's where.

Hi
No. I personally oppose superstitions. All the terms you said are like Angel, all of them are material. And each is the energies and forces in the world. They are the agents of nature. And there is no supernatural. Is this a superstition for you? The name Higgs or boson does not have to be in the Qur'an. Because the Qur'an was revealed in the seventh century. These modern terms come in the twentieth century. However, in similar verses of the Qur'an, elementary particles and atoms are mentioned in Arabic terms. I hope you think logically and correctly. And see right.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Heydarian is the Quran a good source of morality?

 

[heydarian saeed]

"Theology is the curse of the world of matter. It puts mankind in shackles. It puts his soul in prison. To be freed he must learn to sever himself from all limiting creeds and restrictive dogmas and to find the unfettered truth that comes in spiritual inspiration."

From the teachings of Silver Birch.

Hi. This text is completely incorrect. I do not want to know Where did you come from? But it is wrong and ugly.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Heydarian is the Quran a good source of morality?

Hi
Of course yes. I'm glad you came. Behold, dear friend, the moral verses are clear. The verses of war are clear. The verses of history are clear. The verses of science are clear. The stories are clear. All this is said in a book called the Qur'an. You have to read each verse you choose if you want to understand what it says. You should read all its dimensions and explanations. Moral verses are not about a specific time. It is still used today. But the verses of the torment of relatives or persons are related to their time. Not for our time. And has no application. Moreover, we should not be extremist in any of the contents of the Qur'an. Unfortunately, Muslims have been extremist in some cases and times. You are right if you are upset. But Islam and the Qur'an are not extremist. We humans are extremists. I personally strongly condemn extremism.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

So two questions.

1. How do you tell the passages that aren't meant for us from those that are?

2. Can you provide some of the good morality from the Quran?

 

[heydarian saeed]

Heydarian,

Can I suggest as a follow up you explain how everything we know about respiratory diseases in marsupials can be found in " The very hungry caterpillar" by Eric Carle.

I can't believe you would find worse links there than you have between the words in the Qur'an and sub atomic physics

Hi. Each book is about a specific topic. The Qur'an is a book for guiding human beings to the right path and happiness. The Qur'an has various suggestions and ways to achieve happiness and well-being. He has said some verses of history so that we can learn a lesson. Some verses say the end of human behavior so that we can learn a lesson. Some verses tell true stories so that we can learn both lessons and scientific points. Each of the different chapters of the Qur'an has its own content. Of course, all of them are on the way to human happiness. I have already said that the Qur'anic subjects may be 50 different subjects. I have personally chosen similar verses that refer to science. And I enjoy. Whichever you like. You may not like it.
It is not mandatory. Well, this is a way of life. And there is a religion called Islam Mohammadi. Just as you have a special belief in yourself, we also have a special belief in ourselves. It is important that we all live together peacefully in a global community. Respect each other. If we disagree with an opinion. But let's not insult. Observe moral and cultural principles. For example, I do not agree at all with the ideas and thoughts of Scorpio. But I say politely. And I do not insult at all. Note that we all live in a global community and together. Everyone has the right to use all the gifts and blessings of nature. Inequality is rejected.
I enjoy talking to you. Thank you

 

[Scorpion]

The verses of war are clear.

There should be no verses of war in a holy book, but the unholy quran has an entire chapter called 'spoils of war' (surah 8)The first verse says all spoils belong to Allah and he messenger. In other words all spoils belong to Muhammad. Because what does God need with spoils of war? But by the time Muhammad reached verse 41 he had realized nobody would fight his wars for nothing. So he reduced his share to one fifth of the spoils.

Here is verse 5.33 which shows what a savage Muhammad was:

5.33. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

 

[heydarian saeed]

So two questions.

1. How do you tell the passages that aren't meant for us from those that are?

2. Can you provide some of the good morality from the Quran?

Hello. I am very pleased with your presence and your beautiful questions. But your answer:
1-You reached your goal by referring to the meaning of the verses as well as the interpretation of the desired verse. Do you see what the content of the verse is about? If the torment of the relatives of the prophets is over. Well, obviously, it's not about time. The point of these verses is to learn a lesson. That we do not act like the tribes of the past. Doom does not come to us. It is just a lesson. Quranic stories are examined in the same way. It says moral verses clearly. And related to all times. We examine the rest of the verses in the same way .it is easy.
2- Good morality has many examples in the Qur'an. Let me tell you just a few examples. In Surah 3, verse 159, God says to Muhammad: It is by God's mercy that you are so kind to people. If you were fierce and hard-hearted, they would scatter around you. (And they did not approach you) So forgive them. And ask forgiveness for them. And consult with them in affairs. And because you wanted to do something, rely on God. (And ask God for help) that God loves those who trust. Muhammad said to his people: Improve your morals. And be kind to your neighbors. And cherish your women. To enter Paradise without reckoning.
In Sura 23, verse 106, he says: Our Lord, an internal anomaly has overtaken us so that we may go astray. Therefore, we must identify the internal anomaly. And avoid it.
Endurance and patience in the face of adversity. Sura 72, verse 16
to be clean. In appearance and in morality. Verse 62/2 - 5/6
To have wisdom and to act wisely. 2/269
Kind your heart. And be kind to others. 3/103
attempt and effort. 53/39-41
Valuing science and scientists. Six verses: 35/28 - 34 / 6- 3/18 - 29/49 - 58/11 - 39 /10
Muhammad says: The best human being is the one whose language and hands are safe from others. (Do not disrespect anyone with your tongue. And do not oppress anyone with your hand.) He also says: With good morals and people you can conquer the world. And attract everyone. Muhammad says: God has sent me to a prophet to increase good morals.
Therefore, in the religion of Islam and the Qur'an, having good morals is highly recommended.
God praises Muhammad in the Qur'an in Sura 68, verse 4 for his good morals.
Thank you and good luck to you.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Hello. I am very pleased with your presence and your beautiful questions. But your answer:
1-You reached your goal by referring to the meaning of the verses as well as the interpretation of the desired verse. Do you see what the content of the verse is about? If the torment of the relatives of the prophets is over. Well, obviously, it's not about time. The point of these verses is to learn a lesson. That we do not act like the tribes of the past. Doom does not come to us. It is just a lesson. Quranic stories are examined in the same way. It says moral verses clearly. And related to all times. We examine the rest of the verses in the same way .it is easy.

This is barely coherent, but I think what you're saying is that the verses that specifically deal with individuals or groups who were around at the time such as Muhammed's family are no longer meant to be continued, is that correct?

What about the verses that just deal with groups of people who are still extant? All the verses that deal with non believers do not specify any particular group that Muhammed was dealing with at the time, they just deal with non believers. Similarly the multiple passages vilifying Jews do not deal with specific Jews from the period but all Jews in a blanket statement.

How do you determine that the passages telling you that non believers should be killed are no longer meant to apply? Provide some kind of basis for your claim, not just your say so.

2- Good morality has many examples in the Qur'an. Let me tell you just a few examples. In Surah 3, verse 159, God says to Muhammad: It is by God's mercy that you are so kind to people. If you were fierce and hard-hearted, they would scatter around you. (And they did not approach you) So forgive them. And ask forgiveness for them. And consult with them in affairs. And because you wanted to do something, rely on God. (And ask God for help) that God loves those who trust. Muhammad said to his people: Improve your morals. And be kind to your neighbors. And cherish your women. To enter Paradise without reckoning.

Ok, that seems like some reasonable moral instruction. It's hardly new though is it?

Also this only seems to apply to Muslims. You should treat your Muslim neighbours and your own women well (although there is a LOT of horrible sexism in the Quran). What about others? How should you treat those who do not believe?

In Sura 23, verse 106, he says: Our Lord, an internal anomaly has overtaken us so that we may go astray. Therefore, we must identify the internal anomaly. And avoid it.

That's not good moral guidance. That's just attempting to enforce belief by claiming that anyone who does not believe has something wrong with them.

Why is belief in Islam a moral good exactly?

Endurance and patience in the face of adversity. Sura 72, verse 16
to be clean. In appearance and in morality. Verse 62/2 - 5/6
To have wisdom and to act wisely. 2/269
Kind your heart. And be kind to others. 3/103
attempt and effort. 53/39-41

Ok, seems like a mix of actual good things (be kind to people) and things that only appear good to a believer (believe in what we say is moral).

What if the religion said it was moral to rape children? (I am not claiming that Islam says this, it is a hypothetical).

If a religion says that all children should be bedded when they are 8, does that make following the rules of the religion automatically moral? What if the religion said that it came direct from god? What if the religion also gave instructions on how well to treat the members, and that you should be generous to those less fortunate and ensure that the sick get treatment? The provisions for the sick and less well off are good morality sure, but that doesn't invalidate the child rape does it?

The Quran instructs some horrible, HORRIBLE abuses. Just because it also says "be nice to people" does not allow you to gloss over said abuses and it certainly does not allow you to claim that when the religion says following it is moral it is correct to claim that.

Muhammad says: The best human being is the one whose language and hands are safe from others. (Do not disrespect anyone with your tongue. And do not oppress anyone with your hand.) He also says: With good morals and people you can conquer the world. And attract everyone. [Muhammad says: God has sent me to a prophet to increase good morals.

But the Quran repeatedly makes pronouncements on how people should live that are NOT good morals. Just because the book says they are good doesn't make it so.

Therefore, in the religion of Islam and the Qur'an, having good morals is highly recommended.
God praises Muhammad in the Qur'an in Sura 68, verse 4 for his good morals.
Thank you and good luck to you.

The god of the Quran is evil though. According to the words of the book the God of the Quran wants people to follow a depraved moral code. Just because the book says it isn't depraved doesn't make that claim true.

 

[sackett]

By Allah's beard, it is well! Or maybe not?

Exactly . Muhammad's life history says: "Muhammad was handsome and well-mannered. He treated people with laughter, smiles and humor. No one saw anger and violence in Muhammad's face. During the war, Muhammad's noble uncle, Hamza The killer said, "I was ordered to kill Hamza, but I regret it. Muhammad said, 'Let him go. I just never want to see you.' Hamza was like a pillar of Islam for Muhammad." "And it was extremely important." Hamza's killer was released.

My gradeschool attempt at jibing heydarian drew the above response. It could be taken as a smoothly oriental deflection,* and as a VERY polite way of telling me to get lost. I'd like to think so.

But I don't.

* Persia is an anciently civilized nation.

 

[Myriad]

Hello to you
Our guess is that you consider Heydarian a heretic in Islam and the Qur'an. Of course not. So far, you have read the Qur'an along with the superstitions of some illiterate people or deviant enemies. If the Qur'an is all realism and science. Until recently, I myself was almost like you. But I saw the light of Quranic knowledge. I met your group. Because of the many problems you raise. He encouraged me more to see where the knowledge of the Qur'an really is. In what verses is it? And what does it mean?
I found this in similar verses. This is stated in verse 7 of Sura 3. There are verses that have different meanings. And it can be understood and made meaningful at any time according to the science of the day. For example, in the twentieth century, these verses tell up-to-date scientific material. I have given you several examples of it. I am currently researching Fundamental
particles and quantum science in these verses. And I will write to you over time. Please look at these Qur'anic discussions freely. And do not look at the Qur'an in the form of prejudiced thoughts. This is not an ancient book. Revealed in the seventh century. But it has up-to-date scientific talk at all times.

What Imams have examined and approved your interpretations of these Quranic verses?

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

I always wonder why these supposedly all-powerful gods need a prophet in the first place.

But even if they do, why only one in an obscure area of the world? At the time of Muhammad choosing China would have reached a MUCH larger group of people.
In fact, why stick to one? Have 100+ prophets all bearing the exact same message. That would be a lot more believable as a divine action.

As for the science delusions. No. If the Quran contained actual science, the Muslim world would have conquered the rest of the world ages ago with tanks, airplanes and nuclear devices, rather than having to borrow those from secular western scientists.

 

[MRC_Hans]

I always wonder why these supposedly all-powerful gods need a prophet in the first place.

But even if they do, why only one in an obscure area of the world? At the time of Muhammad choosing China would have reached a MUCH larger group of people.
In fact, why stick to one? Have 100+ prophets all bearing the exact same message. That would be a lot more believable as a divine action.

The eternal theological paradox: If God wants people to believe, he will surely know how to do it. He will not need to depend on various mortals to spread the gospel.

As for the science delusions. No. If the Quran contained actual science, the Muslim world would have conquered the rest of the world ages ago with tanks, airplanes and nuclear devices, rather than having to borrow those from secular western scientists.

Actually, during medieval ages, the Arabic countries were relatively advanced in most sciences. And also in religious tolerance. Then they fell behind, or perhaps just got stuck where they were. However, you are right in one way: If the Quran held scientific secrets, scientists everywhere in the world would be going through it with a fine comb to find them, and it would be in the sources list for a great many science articles.

Hans