The supernatural

[abaddon]

Do you have a citation for Hawking saying that?

Of course not.

 

[Tassman]

Well, first of all - everyone here has been far, FAR too patient with you for a very long time now.

You are now claiming that "Angels" in the Koran means "forces and energies" (you mean subatomic forces? ... or what; gravity, electromagnetism?) ... there is not a single word about any of that in your Koran ... you are inventing it as a religious belief that you call "interpretation" ...

... why do you need to "interpret" the Koran? The words of the Koran are clear enough and we can all read what it says! If your God wanted to describe atomic forces or gravity etc. then he could have done that in just a few very simple short clear sentences! Why didn't he do that? Why is that not in the Koran? ...

... I think you previously claimed that people would not have understood it 1500 years ago, but that is clearly again untrue nonsense from you, because he could have written something as simple as saying "everything is really composed of tiny particles which are too small for our eyes to see, and those particles stick together because they have forces of attraction amongst them"; when we have millions of those small particles sticking together it makes an object that we can see such as a grain of sand or a small piece of stone or wood" ...

... why doesn't the Koran EVER say anything like that?

OK, well we all know the real answer to why the Koran never explains any such thing, And that real true answer is that what you and your "scholars of religious belief" actually mean when you claim "interpretation", is that you have simply invented some new belief that is certainly NOT in the Koran ... what you mean by your "interpretation" is that you are simply going to "make up" untrue stories about your "holy" book.

And – are we now up to 11 times of asking you to answer the very simple questions that I asked you weeks ago and which are crucial to any question of whether your Koran and your God is true or false? … and for which you are completely incapable of any answer!

Yes. As with the bible, the Muslim holy-book can be made to say (or appear to mean) whatever its interpreters WANT it to mean at any given period of history. It's very flexible in this regard, as is being demonstrated so lavishly by heydarian saeed.

 

[Scorpion]

Yes. As with the bible, the Muslim holy-book can be made to say (or appear to mean) whatever its interpreters WANT it to mean at any given period of history. It's very flexible in this regard, as is being demonstrated so lavishly by heydarian saeed.

Yes, it is somewhat irritating that the Quran so obscure. For example it obviously says the sun orbits the earth, when it says the sun and the moon each swim in an orbit. But Muslims are quick to point out the sun has an orbit in the galaxy. There are also issues like the Quran does not say stone adulterers to death. But Muhammad orders a stoning in a hadith, proving he was cruel.

 

[heydarian saeed]

We're now firmly in 2 + 2 = Potato territory.
A singularity, if you will, where the laws of reason and logic and math and internal consistency simply don't apply.

heydarian, the angel Gabriel ate 5,347 tomatoes at 3:30 PM and, wearing a green suit, hopped 27 times on his left leg, and Mohamed, PBUH, swallowed a walnut. As you know the Big Bang Theory is a corollary of Evolution, and Darwin wore pink bandanas. Therefore, the periodic table, and logarithmic tables, and the tabula rasa that Schopenhauer and Kant used to play billiards on, are clear proof that the Quran truly has in it the outline of science, and morality, and ethics, and psychohistory.

I was not there. Maybe you're right. Perhaps ....

 

[heydarian saeed]

Meaningless gibberish. Deal with what I have said please.

The quran instructs you to kill me because I am a non believer. Do you agree with this commandment?

If you invade my privacy: my country - my family - my nation. I will stand before you like a mountain. And I will fight. And I will retaliate. If you kill, I will kill.
So be careful. And watch your behavior. As long as you do not rape. I have nothing to do with you. This is a friendly group. And we exchange our thoughts. To reach a positive result. And get closer to each other. You are apparently not in this garden !! You always talk about killing. Please cover your gun. And put it aside. We have better than that. We are negotiating, not war. Be vigilant.

 

[heydarian saeed]

You would not be trying to blind us with science would you?

As it happens I am on speaking terms with what I believe was an angel of karma. Or at least it spoke to me. In 1998 I had no money and could not afford a computer, then a voice in my head said. " help is coming from an unexpected source ". I felt a presence when I picked the lottery numbers later that week, and it seemed to guide me to certain numbers. Then on the Saturday night one hour before the draw I picked up the ticket and said to myself, "maybe this ticket is worth a fortune" then I though "no " and threw it down. But at that moment the same voice, which was female said " You won". An hour later the draw was on and I won five numbers.
I believe it was an angel of karma that gave me the five numbers, because they wanted me to have a computer and get on the internet. It had to be an angel or a very high spirit because it had to be able to see into the future to get the numbers, and it had to have the authority to overrule the laws of karma, and give me the money as a special dispensation.

I believe only an angel could have done this, and that female voice only ever spoke to me twice. It has never spoken to me before or since.
I do not believe my departed relatives could have given me the numbers, because they are not evolved enough to see into the future. It must have been and angel, or a very highly evolved spirit.

The point of this is that they wanted me to have a computer so I could refute the Quran, and criticize it, and deny it is the words of God. So when you mess with me you are messing with an angel.

You may not believe what I have said, and you are not alone here because no one else does either. But it is all perfectly true, and I have told this story here many times.

Hi. No. I do not accept. It is a superstition. Your faith and effort have made you do this and succeed. 4 names that are in the Quran and I said. He only said their names and their duties. He did not say their nature and form. They are not angels. They are the agents of God. And they carry out their mission by the command of God. Other than that, the rest is superstition. Of course, your theory is also respected. But I do not accept.

 

[heydarian saeed]

The article I left you yesterday if you have read. He clarified facts about how he was created. If you are careful, the temperature was around 10 to the power of 32 degrees Kelvin, which is related to singularity. I have said this before. For some, the question was, what is this temperature? It has already been said. This is the temperature of singularity. Remember it. I will tell you later where we will experience this temperature ?! "We will all experience! The universe will return to this point." This statement may not be believable to many people. And our science has not reached it yet. You are right. But this is true. The fate of the universe will be the same. God has said in the Qur'an. And is definite and fixed. If someone does not agree, prove otherwise.

 

[IanS]

Meaningless gibberish. Deal with what I have said please.

The quran instructs you to kill me because I am a non believer. Do you agree with this commandment?

If you invade my privacy: my country - my family - my nation. I will stand before you like a mountain. And I will fight. And I will retaliate. If you kill, I will kill. So be careful. And watch your behavior. As long as you do not rape. I have nothing to do with you. This is a friendly group. And we exchange our thoughts. To reach a positive result. And get closer to each other. You are apparently not in this garden !! You always talk about killing. Please cover your gun. And put it aside. We have better than that. We are negotiating, not war. Be vigilant.

You were talking before (over many pages back) about your God killing non-believers (who you called "Infidels") ... but your God is not in any danger of anyone on Earth "invading his privacy, or his family" is he!! ... so why do you support & praise the claim that your God will kill us all if we refuse people to convert to your religion?

And by the way – if you yourself live in Iran, then Iran as a country is also not being invaded by armies from the USA (or from the UK or from anywhere else in the Non-Muslim nations), is it!! The answer is, No it is Not! And yet in the UK and all over Europe for example (France, Germany, Belgium, Spain …) we have now had literally thousands of Islamic fundamentalist attacks killing countless numbers of ordinary pedestrian citizens just standing on the streets, or in shops, or at a music concert etc. Those Islamic attackers are killing people, and often killing them in the most appalling ways, inc. killing young children with no discrimination whatsoever, purely, simply and entirely because like you they are obsessed with Islamic religious belief that have obtained by “interpreting” the Koran! …

… your religion is lethally dangerous, and you yourself are actually threatening that danger to people here (and everywhere else) when you say things like your own words highlighted above.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

If you invade my privacy: my country - my family - my nation. I will stand before you like a mountain. And I will fight. And I will retaliate. If you kill, I will kill.
So be careful. And watch your behavior. As long as you do not rape. I have nothing to do with you. This is a friendly group. And we exchange our thoughts. To reach a positive result. And get closer to each other. You are apparently not in this garden !! You always talk about killing. Please cover your gun. And put it aside. We have better than that. We are negotiating, not war. Be vigilant.

More meaningless gibberish.

The Quran instructs you as a Muslim to kill me because I am an unbeliever. Do you accept this, yes or no?

 

[Scorpion]

Hi. No. I do not accept. It is a superstition. Your faith and effort have made you do this and succeed. 4 names that are in the Quran and I said. He only said their names and their duties. He did not say their nature and form. They are not angels. They are the agents of God. And they carry out their mission by the command of God. Other than that, the rest is superstition. Of course, your theory is also respected. But I do not accept.

What do you mean, you do not accept. Do you think I am lying ?

And what do you mean it is superstition. Are you saying there are no real angels, and they are just forces of nature ? Because the whole Quran is supposed to be a message sent down through the angel Gabriel.

I believe I myself was spoken to by an angel of karma. If not then it was a very advanced and evolved spirit guide. Because the voice that spoke to me predicted the lottery numbers in advance by looking into the future and giving me the numbers by telepathy.

I believe only an angel of karma would have had the authority to bend the rules of karma to give me winning lottery numbers, and they only gave me enough to buy a computer and no more. That is because it is not normally allowed that someone can cheat the lottery by occult means. I have tried to get them to give me a bigger win ever since but they have not, and I know they probably never will, even though they proved they can.

I believe the angels are a separate species to us that never incarnate and they administrate the spiritual evolution of mankind on this and many other planets. There must be a very large army of angels to be able to administrate the evolution of the countless souls that are incarnate at any one time. I do not know how many other planets are inhabited but It think it is a lot. We incarnate on different planets according to the needs of our soul.
Most of us on this planet have incarnated on different planets, and we will again.

The angel (or spirit) that gave me a lottery win in 1998 could see into the future, and they must have known what I would do with it. They must have known that after the world trade center was attacked in 2001 I would read the Quran, realize it was evil lies about God , and decide to try and undermine it all over the internet on various forums, as I have duly done.

The angels want to break down the teachings of the lying false prophet Muhammad and wipe away the beliefs of Islam from the world. They gave me a computer so that I could participate in this effort, and that is what you are up against.

 

[Scorpion]

The Quran instructs you as a Muslim to kill me because I am an unbeliever. Do you accept this, yes or no?

Here are a couple of verses.

Quran surah 8.12 Remember thy lord inspired the angels (with the message)
" I am with you: give firmness to the believers : I will instill terror into the hearts of unbelievers : Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips off them.

The above verse is clearly talking about smiting necks with a sword.

Quran surah 9.5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them. And seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) ***

 

[Scorpion]

God has said in the Qur'an.

God said nothing in the Quran, NOTHING ! unless he is a mumbling, semi literate, savage monster.

 

[Tassman]

God has said in the Qur'an. And is definite and fixed. If someone does not agree, prove otherwise.

No, the scribes recording what Muhammad dictated over a twenty year period "said" what is in the Koran. Not a deity. If you want to make the leap of faith and conclude a 'god-said-it' then that's up to you. But there is no good reason why the rest of us should believe it just based upon your say-so. Your claims are supported by no substantive evidence and are grounded in archaic thinking.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Well, first of all - everyone here has been far, FAR too patient with you for a very long time now.

You are now claiming that "Angels" in the Koran means "forces and energies" (you mean subatomic forces? ... or what; gravity, electromagnetism?) ... there is not a single word about any of that in your Koran ... you are inventing it as a religious belief that you call "interpretation" ...

... why do you need to "interpret" the Koran? The words of the Koran are clear enough and we can all read what it says! If your God wanted to describe atomic forces or gravity etc. then he could have done that in just a few very simple short clear sentences! Why didn't he do that? Why is that not in the Koran? ...

... I think you previously claimed that people would not have understood it 1500 years ago, but that is clearly again untrue nonsense from you, because he could have written something as simple as saying "everything is really composed of tiny particles which are too small for our eyes to see, and those particles stick together because they have forces of attraction amongst them"; when we have millions of those small particles sticking together it makes an object that we can see such as a grain of sand or a small piece of stone or wood" ...

... why doesn't the Koran EVER say anything like that?

OK, well we all know the real answer to why the Koran never explains any such thing, And that real true answer is that what you and your "scholars of religious belief" actually mean when you claim "interpretation", is that you have simply invented some new belief that is certainly NOT in the Koran ... what you mean by your "interpretation" is that you are simply going to "make up" untrue stories about your "holy" book.

And – are we now up to 11 times of asking you to answer the very simple questions that I asked you weeks ago and which are crucial to any question of whether your Koran and your God is true or false? … and for which you are completely incapable of any answer!

Hi philosopher
First, the Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad 14 centuries ago at a time when people were illiterate. Therefore, they did not understand binary particles or atoms or forces and energies.
Secondly, I have said many times that the Qur'an is not a scientific encyclopedia. He only mentioned the sciences. The details are left to us. And we have a duty to discover it. And register as scientific laws.
Thirdly, it is gratifying that this logical question came to your mind. And you took these logical forms to the Qur'an and God. Let the Qur'an answer you as always:
the word "particle" is mentioned 27 times in the Qur'an.
God says: We own the particles in the heavens and the earth.
Even in 2 verses, fine particles are mentioned in the Qur'an.
The most famous surah is 34, which especially verses 3 and 22 deal with human actions, whether good or bad.
In verse 3, he explicitly refers to a particle and even a tiny particle. Meaning:
And those who disbelieve say: The Hour will not come to us. Say: Why do I swear by my Lord that it will surely come to you? "It is not hidden, nor is it less than it, nor is it greater than it, unless it is in a clear book."
)All particles from the largest to the smallest are recorded in our book.(
Let me open your mind to say: The great event of the singularity and cosmic expansion is told in 11 verses. And the most famous is verse 30 of Sura 21. Meaning:
Did not those who disbelieve know that the heavens and the earth were both joined together, and that We separated them in the event of a singularity, and that We created every living thing from water? "Did they not then begin to believe?"
Fourth, our Method is to answer logical questions only once. I have answered your repetitive questions many times! Check and see if your question was logical? So I answered. Otherwise, the question was not logical. So I did not answer.
Please do not ask repetitive questions to keep the group calm and uncluttered. And keep the group atmosphere logical and calm. Thank you very much for your cooperation.

 

[heydarian saeed]

No, the scribes recording what Muhammad dictated over a twenty year period "said" what is in the Koran. Not a deity. If you want to make the leap of faith and conclude a 'god-said-it' then that's up to you. But there is no good reason why the rest of us should believe it just based upon your say-so. Your claims are supported by no substantive evidence and are grounded in archaic thinking.

It is from the Quran. And the Qur'an is the word of God. Do not bore yourself in vain.

 

[heydarian saeed]

God said nothing in the Quran, NOTHING ! unless he is a mumbling, semi literate, savage monster.

The Qur'an is exactly the word of God. Do not insist on what you say. God is watching. And it manages your destiny. So do not go astray. Everyone has their own way. Your problem is divine punishment. It has nothing to do with you or me or anyone else. This is God's special way. The nature and quality of divine punishment is not in your mind. You are wrong. I will tell you what is the divine punishment? wait. God is also patient. And the kindest.

 

[Mojo]

And the Qur'an is the word of God.

And you know this how?

 

[heydarian saeed]

Here are a couple of verses.

Quran surah 8.12 Remember thy lord inspired the angels (with the message)
" I am with you: give firmness to the believers : I will instill terror into the hearts of unbelievers : Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips off them.

The above verse is clearly talking about smiting necks with a sword.

Quran surah 9.5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them. And seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) ***

You just pick a verse that says kill and ruin the group atmosphere. And you have seizures. This is ridiculous. You do not read the previous verses. Of course, you do not read intentionally. And do you know exactly why God ordered the war and the killing of the infidels? You are fully aware. Again, I tell you: the infidels killed the Muslims. And they take away their property and honor. They raped. They tortured. They beheaded. All the crimes of humanity are committed by infidels against Muslims. Therefore, God commanded you, O Muslims, to fight the disbelievers. And confront them like themselves.
But apply human principles in war. And do not be extravagant like the disbelievers. If they gave up the war. You give up too. If they surrender, you will accept them. And do not harass the captives in any way. These are the commands of God.
I'm really sorry for you. You are deliberately distorting the divine verses in the Qur'an. Because your goal is to divert people's minds. I see a bad fate for you. Your place will be the fifth floor of hell. Wait until I tell you what the fifth degree of hell is? You will stay there forever. And in fire 10 to the power of 32 degrees Kelvin you will disappear. This is not my word. God knows you. And he has told you your destiny in the Qur'an. Sura 74 verses 8 to 31. Read carefully. This is definitely your destiny. Wait.
Human skin is peeled with boiling water. In the fifth degree of hell, the stem particles of the skin of atoms are removed at a temperature of 10 to the power of 32 degrees Kelvin. And are pulled out. You will be able to withstand such heat. Wait to see.
God has said these things in the Qur'an so that you may think correctly. And do not go astray. Be wise. It is the duty of Muhammad and the Qur'an to intimidate in order to behave properly. And it is good news for heaven. He says both together. The choice is yours. Do you have a mind? Which do you choose? It is not mandatory. Just speak and act wisely. I like you. I do not want the fate of the 5th degree of hell to befall you. understand.

 

[heydarian saeed]

And you know this how?

Read the Qur'an with the correct meaning. Ask the Quran any questions you have. He answers you. Does not say details. Discover the details with you. And it is an honor.
Important Note: Do not be quick to judge. And be reasonable.

 

[heydarian saeed]

I need to tell you: Islam is not a religion of violence. A Muslim is not a murderer. The Qur'an is not a book of war and killing. God is not cruel. I am a Muslim. I love you so much you can not imagine. I kiss you all. I hug you all in a warm embrace. I live with you. I'm talking to you. I'm joking with you. I laugh with you. I rejoice with you. I have fun with you. I am muslim. So please do not say ugly and baseless words about Muslims, the Qur'an, Muhammad and God.
We have no enmity or war with you. Please read the Quran correctly. "Be kind to all human beings," he says. If they fought you. Stand in front of them. Resist. Defend. Islam is not a religion of war and oppression. Unbelievers if they have nothing to do with you. You have nothing to do with them. Even learn science with them. Deal with them. Join them in technology and advancement. These are the commands of God and the Qur'an. Some deliberately turn the issue upside down. They deliberately commit violence.
Please do not make our friendship in this group or anywhere else ugly. The cause of wars is these deviant thoughts and deviant and ugly words. We must avoid these.
I would recommend to my friends in this group: MarkCorrigan and Scorpion. Go on a beautiful pre-Christmas vacation. And clear the air of their minds. Watching the beautiful sport of ice hockey is useful for you. I personally enjoy watching this sport. Be positive. Put negativity and violence aside. Good luck.