The supernatural

[abaddon]

wait. Do not rush. Do not rush. Let me finish all my talk. Do not believe too soon. And do not judge too soon. You know nothing about the Qur'an. And you are only talking about speculation. If you want to convince me of your thoughts. This is not the way. You should talk to me about the Quran itself. Now see how I will tell you the new contents of the Qur'an. It will be hard to believe.

The "new contents of the Quran"? Really? The Quran got an upgrade at some point? Who implemented that? Where is the revision control?

 

[heydarian saeed]

"degrees kelvin" You serious? Nothing is expressed in "degrees kelvin". And exactly where in the Quran does it describe anything as 10³⁰ degrees kelvin? Because it doesn't. Nor does the hadith.

Wanna know why? Because there was no such thing back when those idiotic things were written so those old scribes had never heard of it.

wait. I will tell you that a completely scientific study of which verse of the Qur'an says ten to the power of 30 degrees Kelvin! Yes. It was not in the seventh century. I understand in the twentieth century that he meant the same degree Kelvin. Please take your photo, which is nothing more than a superstition.

 

[Pixel42]

wait. Do not rush. Do not rush. Let me finish all my talk. Do not believe too soon. And do not judge too soon.

It's nearly four months since you started this thread. If you had anything of interest to say you would have said it by now. It's not soon to judge that you've got nothing.

 

[Scorpion]

I have read the Qur'an more than a thousand times.

I recommend a computer games disk by Monty python.

Its called, ' A complete waste of time'

You can play it for hours and achieve nothing. But at least its fun, I cannot imagine wasting so much time on the Quran as to read it 1000 times.

 

[Scorpion]

The unseen world means hidden and hidden from everyone. That is, no one can say anything about the unseen. In verse 20 of Sura 10, he says: The unseen belongs only to God. And it says nothing else.

It is my belief there are many people gifted with clairvoyance who can see the unseen. They say the spirits they see teach things that completely contradict the Quran.
For example they say there is no Satan and no hellfire, and there will be no judgement day.

 

[abaddon]

I have read the Qur'an more than a thousand times. And I have read its various interpretations and meanings.

You have already demonstrated that this is false.

The views expressed in the commentaries on the creation of man are all related to the views of the past about 14 centuries ago. And with the advancement of science, there is no new theory that is consistent with modern science. It only justifies past opinions.

This is also false. And you know it.

The Qur'an explicitly states: "Assess the subjects of the Qur'an with its knowledge and be up-to-date. And with mental imagery you will not go anywhere to achieve the truth of the verses." All the similar verses I have said before speak of scientific subjects.

What is the Quran's position on tunnelling diodes, please. You should know, you are using them to post right here.

And refers to one or more scientific topics. And it should be examined with the relevant knowledge.

Shoehorning.

Since joining your group, I have read the Qur'an with a view to studying the supernatural.

I have also read the Quran. So have many here. So what? It is still a book of garbage.

First, I put my previous theory in my article on early messages in this group. And to a large extent, I believed in that. I looked carefully and saw that: "There are no words or phrases in the Qur'an about the supernatural! And he has not spoken about the existence of the supernatural!"! I paid more attention. And I checked. I saw in the Qur'an that the world he has introduced is only one thing: the universe (material world) and the unseen. I thought that perhaps the unseen is the supernatural. Did not see. Not so. The unseen world means hidden and hidden from everyone. That is, no one can say anything about the unseen. In verse 20 of Sura 10, he says: The unseen belongs only to God. And it says nothing else.

Wow. You just admitted that your "perfect" interpretation was wrong from the start and you had to go back and reinterpret it differently. Well ain't that interesting.

But you see no problem with this.

Fine I reinterpreted The Silmarrilion to predict quantum technology, because it actually does. The Quran does not. Your ideas fail.

That is, we do not have an unseen world. We only have the unseen.

Read that sentence to yourself again. It will not improve.

And God is special.

Oh great. Explicit special pleading.You are not even concealing it now.

And no one knows about it. The rest of the talk is superstitious.
...

We all can read it and many of us have. It's nonsense. It's always been nonsense.


But it isn't just nonsense, it is superstitious nonsense. But you still believe it for some reason.

 

[abaddon]

wait. I will tell you that a completely scientific study of which verse of the Qur'an says ten to the power of 30 degrees Kelvin! Yes. It was not in the seventh century. I understand in the twentieth century that he meant the same degree Kelvin. Please take your photo, which is nothing more than a superstition.

Read it slow. Where in the Quran does it mention "10³⁰ degrees kelvin"

I await your response, because it will be funny. You can't do it

 

[abaddon]

wait. I will tell you that a completely scientific study of which verse of the Qur'an says ten to the power of 30 degrees Kelvin! Yes. It was not in the seventh century. I understand in the twentieth century that he meant the same degree Kelvin. Please take your photo, which is nothing more than a superstition.

Errr what photo would that be? And why would I take it? What would be the point of any of that nonsense?

 

[Scorpion]

Angels are "laws of nature" according to the first verse of Surah 35. Which rule the material world system. And together they form the order of creation and nature.

Quran Surah 35.1 says angels have wings, two, three, or four pairs.

The spirit world teaches that angels are a separate species from us who never incarnate. They do not have wings, they travel instantly to wherever they want to go by willing it.

 

[Pixel42]

It's only a matter of time before heydarian and Scorpion start arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

wait. Do not rush. Do not rush. Let me finish all my talk. Do not believe too soon. And do not judge too soon. You know nothing about the Qur'an. And you are only talking about speculation. If you want to convince me of your thoughts. This is not the way. You should talk to me about the Quran itself. Now see how I will tell you the new contents of the Qur'an. It will be hard to believe.

This is nonsense. I've read the Quran. It's gibberish. People do not deserve to be tortured for eternity for ANY crime, let alone the "crime" of not believing in an obviously fictitious god.

I've tried to talk about the Quran itself to you. You ignored me. Repeatedly.

You don't want a discussion, you want to preach.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

It's only a matter of time before heydarian and Scorpion start arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

That's so last century. Today we ask, "How many pins can you stick in the head of an angel?"

Same answer by the way.

 

[IanS]

very well. You want to hear about new science in the Quran. So listen right. To tell you. Of course, I must say that my attitude towards understanding the Qur'an has changed. According to your knowledge, I will try to tell you about the Holy Quran. Listen well.

I have read the Qur'an more than a thousand times. And I have read its various interpretations and meanings.
The views expressed in the commentaries on the creation of man are all related to the views of the past about 14 centuries ago. And with the advancement of science, there is no new theory that is consistent with modern science. It only justifies past opinions. The Qur'an explicitly states: "Assess the subjects of the Qur'an with its knowledge and be up-to-date. And with mental imagery you will not go anywhere to achieve the truth of the verses." All the similar verses I have said before speak of scientific subjects.
. And refers to one or more scientific topics. And it should be examined with the relevant knowledge.
Since joining your group, I have read the Qur'an with a view to studying the supernatural. First, I put my previous theory in my article on early messages in this group. And to a large extent, I believed in that. I looked carefully and saw that: "There are no words or phrases in the Qur'an about the supernatural! And he has not spoken about the existence of the supernatural!"! I paid more attention. And I checked. I saw in the Qur'an that the world he has introduced is only one thing: the universe (material world) and the unseen. I thought that perhaps the unseen is the supernatural. Did not see. Not so. The unseen world means hidden and hidden from everyone. That is, no one can say anything about the unseen. In verse 20 of Sura 10, he says: The unseen belongs only to God. And it says nothing else.
That is, we do not have an unseen world. We only have the unseen. And God is special. And no one knows about it. The rest of the talk is superstitious.
...

The above is supposed to be a reply to the fact that I and everyone else here has explained to you 50 times or more why the Koran definitely does NOT describe any modern science (e.g. science from the 19th to 21st century). And yet your reply says absolutely NOTHING about where the Koran says a single word from modern science!

You must have repeated huge great word-masses like the above 50 times or more already. And still you cannot show any honest sentence in the Koran that says anything at all about modern science.

You are relying entirely on people you call “religious scholars of Islam” who tell you they have made what they call “interpretations” … but their “interpretations” are simply and purely religious beliefs … beliefs for which they can show zero evidence … they have no evidence at all that any such interpretations actually describe any modern scientific discoveries. You are relying entirely on “Belief”! …

… you are relying upon your own belief in God, and then further relying on your religious “interpretations” where the scholars are using only their faith-belief to claim “interpretations”!! … when asked for genuine honest evidence all you do is mount more beliefs on top of more beliefs on top of more faith from religion.

And by the way, if I remind you here again that you have still not answered the 3 or 4 very basic questions that I asked you a week ago, then that will be the 7th time I have asked you!!

 

[IanS]

In verse 20 of Sura 10, he says: The unseen belongs only to God. And it says nothing else.
...

At the time when the Koran was written, nobody had ever seen microbes & bacteria, let alone molecules and atoms. But we now have electron microscopes with which we can clearly see such things. So you are quite wrong to say that there is an "unseen" world which belongs only to your God...

... at the time when your Koran was written and when you say the words of the Koran say that the things "unseen" belong only to God (where you also say that words like that in the Koran come directly from God himself), well ... when your God said that, nobody had astronomical telescopes & space probes with which we can all now see things like the surface of other planets in great detail ... that was all “the unseen” when your God made the mistake of claiming a world of things that humans could not see ... a million things like that are now seen every day by people all over the world.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

It's only a matter of time before heydarian and Scorpion start arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Let them thrash out the flying speed of angels first. In particular does it make any difference if they're African or European and can they carry a coconut?

 

[Tassman]

I have read the Qur'an more than a thousand times. And I have read its various interpretations and meanings.
The views expressed in the commentaries on the creation of man are all related to the views of the past about 14 centuries ago. And with the advancement of science, there is no new theory that is consistent with modern science. It only justifies past opinions. The Qur'an explicitly states: "Assess the subjects of the Qur'an with its knowledge and be up-to-date. And with mental imagery you will not go anywhere to achieve the truth of the verses." All the similar verses I have said before speak of scientific subjects.
. And refers to one or more scientific topics. And it should be examined with the relevant knowledge.
Since joining your group, I have read the Qur'an with a view to studying the supernatural. First, I put my previous theory in my article on early messages in this group. And to a large extent, I believed in that. I looked carefully and saw that: "There are no words or phrases in the Qur'an about the supernatural! And he has not spoken about the existence of the supernatural!"! I paid more attention. And I checked. I saw in the Qur'an that the world he has introduced is only one thing: the universe (material world) and the unseen. I thought that perhaps the unseen is the supernatural. Did not see. Not so. The unseen world means hidden and hidden from everyone. That is, no one can say anything about the unseen. In verse 20 of Sura 10, he says: The unseen belongs only to God. And it says nothing else.
That is, we do not have an unseen world. We only have the unseen. And God is special. And no one knows about it. The rest of the talk is superstitious.
...

People of faith can read their holy-book in such a way that virtually any perspective on ANY issue can be supported by the particular holy-book in question – including the Koran. Much of the Koran (or bible) can be made to reinforce what the modern interpreters want it to say. You want to rationalize scientific knowledge that was utterly unknown by Muhammad and his followers – no problem. An ingenious interpreter can find a way. He must find a way, because the ‘word of god’ clams to contain all knowledge and wisdom and must be made to seem so, no matter how unconvincing the rationalization may be.

 

[heydarian saeed]

What you were talking about, and what I replied to, was precisely that claim or idea from you, that when people here tell you that there are no scientific explanations in the Koran, and that science in general has shown that religious belief in gods and miracles is simply not credible any more, you said that was exactly the same criticism that people had at the time of Mohamed ... I was simply pointing out (as you in fact agree above), that at the time of Mohamed none of those critics knew anything about modern 19th - 21st century scientific discoveries ... so whatever criticisms of Islam people had in the 7th century, they were not criticisms made from a knowledge of modern science … whereas today (and here in this thread), science is now the main reason why educated people dismiss religious beliefs like yours.





Well the above is yet again just completely 100% untrue, isn't it! I have never discussed anything here about Mohamed! And I don't think many others here have mentioned much if anything at all about Mohamed. I have not said any of things that you just claimed above! And I don't remember seeing anyone else post all of that stuff in your highlight. As I just explained above – that was not the criticism of your belief … the criticism is that religious beliefs like yours, are shown by modern science to be completely without foundation and simply not educationally credible any more!

And by the way – you still have never answered the 3 or 4 questions that I asked you about over a week ago and which I have now had to ask you about for the 6th time! Are you ever going to answer the questions?

Hi. OK. I will tell you the scientific dimension of the Qur'an. Do not forget that: The Qur'an is not a scientific encyclopedia. And he has mentioned science in similar verses which are multidimensional. And left the details to us. I look at the Qur'an with this approach and thinking. Because it has been said for humans for 14 centuries. Who had no science. But because the book of the Qur'an is a guide. Its content should be up-to-date for me, who believes in it. And the content is up to date. And must be discovered. And I will tell you my discoveries from the Qur'an.

 

[heydarian saeed]

I think it's pretty important, when talking to the heydarians of the world, whether fundie Muslim or Christian, to differentiate between science as a process and science as a mere product. Heydarian needs to frame it as strictly the latter- that way, he's free to interpret what his holy books said then to accord with what science has found since then, and (maybe more importantly for his viewpoint), he can frame the process (of science) as nothing but the product- it's all just stuff written down in books, and who's to say which book is better?

There's isn't, of course, any science in either sense, in any religion, especially as a process, since that would be a contradiction in terms. But you have to pin down folks like heydarian to the distinction to get them to understand the point that it's not what is written but how it got there that's meaningful.

Hi. You said something valuable. Thank you.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Sex is for reproduction, spirits do not reproduce, therefore there is no sex in the spirit world. The spirit may maintain the gender of its last incarnation. It will have the appearance of male or female. But there is no sexual function in the spirit body.

I heard it directly from a spirit guide speaking through a trance medium, and the spirit said. "sex is neutral in the spirit world"

The spirit body is of a higher level than the physical body, and spirits can fly by willing it, and teleport themselves instantly to any destination they think of.

Hello. I respect your opinion. But you did not say what is the sex of the soul? What will be the final destiny of the soul? Are they just eternal ghosts?What happens to the human body? where is she going? Where is the eternal world of spirits? In this world? Is this the material world?
Please tell me. I want to hear your opinion.

 

[heydarian saeed]

People of faith can read their holy-book in such a way that virtually any perspective on ANY issue can be supported by the particular holy-book in question – including the Koran. Much of the Koran (or bible) can be made to reinforce what the modern interpreters want it to say. You want to rationalize scientific knowledge that was utterly unknown by Muhammad and his followers – no problem. An ingenious interpreter can find a way. He must find a way, because the ‘word of god’ clams to contain all knowledge and wisdom and must be made to seem so, no matter how unconvincing the rationalization may be.

Do not hurry. I will tell you things that are completely up to date. And in the Qur'an in the 14th century God has said. Humans did not understand 14 centuries ago. But we claim science and technology and progress. So we need to understand what he said.Do you agree with the decoding?
wait.