The supernatural

[Chanakya]

And, as I've said- although no-one seems to have noticed- I have been there myself. It is clearly a natural rock formation, nowhere near big enough to be the actual Ark, and it spent a lot of time at the bottom of the sea, not floating on top of it.

Yup, posted about this, too.
Am I on everyone's ignore list or what?

Your posts are well appreciated, Cosmic Yak.

It is now clear, now that OP has left off even the pretense of rational discourse and descended to brazen proselytizing, that his ignoring of the very detailed and excellent points that everyone here is raising, and very much including you as well, owes less to confusion on being presented with multiple people posting on multiple issues, and more to deliberate agenda, and to deliberately promoting his nonsensical irrational religious beliefs.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Heydarian, answer my questions. Stop just telling us that we are wrong and provide evidence if you can.

Of course, you can't, which is why you're not even trying.

Hello. Good morning Master. I am at your service. You asked me to give the best argument to prove the existence of God. Well I said 4 arguments. But you did not comment !! Of course you just said no I do not accept !!You do not check my complete answers. And you only say words without a reason !! Please check correctly and give me the correct and complete answer.
If you want to argue logically and correctly, you have to give me logical, definite and correct reasons that my reasons are wrong. Or you do not accept God for these reasons. Did you pay attention? Please give me your reasons for rejecting my theological reasons for me to examine. Waiting. Do not speak speculatively and without logical reasoning. Thanks

 

[heydarian saeed]

The Koran is shown by modern science to be untrue. Shown to be fictrion and lies. If you do not have enough science "you will make the mistake", you will falsely believe your book. You have no science understanding. Therefore you make the complete mistake. Therefore you falsely believe the Koran. This is so. It is proved. This is your mistake. Thank you oh gracious but uneductaed one ... may your imaginary god go with you.

Hello Master. Thank you for your beautiful answer !! If you believe that the Qur'an is a lie. Or copied old books. Or not scientific. Please bring a surah like Quran with the help of all human beings in the world! What if you could not bring even one verse like the Quran if you are truthful? Please just one verse like Quran ... I am waiting. I am waiting.

 

[Craig4]

Hello Master. Thank you for your beautiful answer !! If you believe that the Qur'an is a lie. Or copied old books. Or not scientific. Please bring a surah like Quran with the help of all human beings in the world! What if you could not bring even one verse like the Quran if you are truthful? Please just one verse like Quran ... I am waiting. I am waiting.

Prove MoMo ever talked to a god or got any direction from one.

 

[heydarian saeed]

In the 21st century, a number of scientists from Britain, Germany, Canada, and the United States have recently launched the largest computer operation to obtain a small picture of the created universe, giving thousands of millions of information about 20 million galaxies to the supercomputer.
And despite the supercomputer's rapid speed, it took 28 days for NASA's supercomputer to deliver a small picture of the created universe. The information given was about the expansion of the universe, the path of the stars, galactic compositions, dark matter, and cosmic gases and dusts in order to simulate the universe in its process of expansion and to determine the path of galaxies and stars.
"It's the biggest thing we've ever done, and maybe the biggest physical calculation," said Professor CarlosFrenk of the University of Durham in the UK. We have for the first time succeeded in having a simulated version of the universe. It is a version equal to the original, which is quite similar to the universe, and therefore we can have our initial experiences in the universe.
This is the world of creation in which we live. In this image below you can see the strings that form a strong cosmic texture. The distance of each of these strings reaches millions of light years.
This is the world of creation in which we live. In the image taken by NASA, you see the strings that form a solid cosmic texture. The distance of each of these strings reaches millions of light years.
To see the cosmic texture photo, please refer to this address:
https://www.dreamstime.com/illustration/cosmic-texture.html
In the seventh century, in verse 7 of Sura 51, the Qur'an speaks of this cosmic context in an astonishing way. And in just one word it illustrates this issue. The word "hobok" means firm and beautiful texture. Pay attention to the meaning of the verse: I swear by the sky, which has a string of strong and beautiful textures.
This reminder is part of my article. Which I have already left for you.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Prove MoMo ever talked to a god or got any direction from one.

Hello. Welcome to our discussion. Please refer to the Quran. He tells you that God spoke to Muhammad through revelation. The Qur'an tells you everything in detail. Of course, I have also told parts of this book in this discussion to my dear associates. See my posts. Good luck

 

[Pixel42]

Hello. Good morning Master. I am at your service. You asked me to give the best argument to prove the existence of God. Well I said 4 arguments.

Your 4 arguments were debunked before any of us were born. They are not remotely convincing, for the reasons that have been explained to you at length.

In your OP you claimed to have something new - actual proof of the supernatural. Instead all we got were the same old tired and debunked arguments and unsubstantiated claims which we have seen, and been utterly unimpressed by, many times before.

 

[Pixel42]

Hello. Welcome to our discussion. Please refer to the Quran. He tells you that God spoke to Muhammad through revelation. The Qur'an tells you everything in detail. Of course, I have also told parts of this book in this discussion to my dear associates. See my posts. Good luck

No one here is going to "refer to the Quran" until and unless someone gives us a good reason to think it isn't the pile of hateful superstitious nonsense all the available evidence clearly shows it to be. Your attempt to do that was an abject failure.

 

[Mojo]

Hello. Welcome to our discussion. Please refer to the Quran. He tells you that God spoke to Muhammad through revelation. The Qur'an tells you everything in detail. Of course, I have also told parts of this book in this discussion to my dear associates. See my posts. Good luck

Do you really not understand that there is a problem with trying to use the Quran to support the Quran’s claim that it is the word of God?

 

[Scorpion]

Hello Master. Thank you for your beautiful answer !! If you believe that the Qur'an is a lie. Or copied old books. Or not scientific. Please bring a surah like Quran with the help of all human beings in the world! What if you could not bring even one verse like the Quran if you are truthful? Please just one verse like Quran ... I am waiting. I am waiting.

The Quran says that no one can produce a surah like it. Here is my surah.


Surah 118 Al Baba.

118.1 Praised be to Allah the almighty and most merciful, the lord of the worlds.
118.2 Obey Allah and his messenger, Muhammad, and if you should give all you own, and die in battle for Allah you will be well rewarded.
118.3 You will recline on couches drinking from silver goblets, and be waited on by wide eyed virgins, who have been specially made for you in heaven. (well they may have been fixed by surgery)
118.3 So you will no longer have to hobble Thamud the she camel for your satisfaction as you did on earth.
118.4 Did we not tell you of Ali Baba and the forty thieves, and did we not remind you of Noah, and how we asked him to gather two of every creature, we even saved the pig, but I am damned if we can remember why we mentioned the pig. Unless it was to poison unbelievers, yes I think that was it.
118.4 And did we not give you the sand to play in, as far as the eye can see, nothing but sand, sand, sand. Allah love sand, no, he really likes making sand. And did we not surround it by the seas which are too salty to drink. Allah is most merciful and wise.
118.5 Did we not tell you to fight the unbelievers wherever you find them, so that you could steal their lands and get out of all that sand. So great and merciful is Allah to the followers of the messenger. Obey the messenger and fight the unbelievers and take their wives and steal their possessions, you can have the wives, but the loot belongs to Allah, (and his messenger Muhammed so had it over or else) But do not kill unbelievers if they become believers, just sign them up as conscripts, and put them in the front line of the next battle to liberate the lands of more unbelievers. Only kill them if they become believers, then change their minds when they start thinking for themselves ,and asking awkward questions. Then strike their necks.
118.6 Allah will curse the unbelievers to be roasted over a slow burning flame for all eternity, and have their eyes plucked out with hooks. But Allah will give them new eyes, so that they can be plucked out again, because Allah is most wise and great, and he likes to watch. He likes little boys that pick the wings of flies as that amuses him. He is the witness of all you do, and even peeps on you when you are in the bathroom.
118.7 Allah be praised and praised, then praised some more.
No really, you had better get down on your heads and grovel, you wretched worms, or you are really going to get it in the head. You either kiss my arse or have your flesh peeled off, and red hot irons shoved where the sun does not shine.
118.8 Whoops, That may have been a verse influenced by Satan, so do not worry to much about that one, I may abrogate it later. Anyway, don't mess with the messenger (Muhammad) if you know what's good for you.

 

[Scorpion]

In the 21st century, a number of scientists from Britain, Germany, Canada, and the United States have recently launched the largest computer operation to obtain a small picture of the created universe, giving thousands of millions of information about 20 million galaxies to the supercomputer.
And despite the supercomputer's rapid speed, it took 28 days for NASA's supercomputer to deliver a small picture of the created universe. The information given was about the expansion of the universe, the path of the stars, galactic compositions, dark matter, and cosmic gases and dusts in order to simulate the universe in its process of expansion and to determine the path of galaxies and stars.
"It's the biggest thing we've ever done, and maybe the biggest physical calculation," said Professor CarlosFrenk of the University of Durham in the UK. We have for the first time succeeded in having a simulated version of the universe. It is a version equal to the original, which is quite similar to the universe, and therefore we can have our initial experiences in the universe.
This is the world of creation in which we live. In this image below you can see the strings that form a strong cosmic texture. The distance of each of these strings reaches millions of light years.
This is the world of creation in which we live. In the image taken by NASA, you see the strings that form a solid cosmic texture. The distance of each of these strings reaches millions of light years.
To see the cosmic texture photo, please refer to this address:
https://www.dreamstime.com/illustration/cosmic-texture.html
In the seventh century, in verse 7 of Sura 51, the Qur'an speaks of this cosmic context in an astonishing way. And in just one word it illustrates this issue. The word "hobok" means firm and beautiful texture. Pay attention to the meaning of the verse: I swear by the sky, which has a string of strong and beautiful textures.
This reminder is part of my article. Which I have already left for you.

I dispute the translation of 51.7 you have given.

Yusuf Ali 51.7
By the sky with its numerous paths

Pickthall 51.7
By the heaven full of paths.

Darwood 51.7
By the heaven with it starry highways

Shakir 51.7
I swear by the heaven full of ways.

Sherali 51.7
And by the heaven full of tracks.

Khalifa 51.7
Despite the perfectly created sky.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Regarding the above highlights. First number 1 - you say that it's not impossible for someone (Noah) to live for 950 years, and you also said that “ no evidence has been presented that it is impossible “ … in modern times, say since 1900, there have been about 7 billion people living all around the world – can you point any of those billions of people who have lived to be 950 years old? Who do you personally know, who ever lived to several hundred years old? …

… I'll give you the answer – you don't know anyone who has lived to more than age 122 (that's the oldest ever known person where there are genuine records of their birth, life and death) … nobody on the entire planet knows of anyone who ever genuinely lived longer than 122 years. There are clear medical reasons why the human body wears out and why it cannot survive much longer than about 120 years, even under the most favourable circumstances.

You also said that it was not impossible for Noah to have been 950 years old. OK, so that is a claim from you – can you prove that it's not impossible for a person to live 950 years? It's YOUR claim, so where is your proof for that? Well, again I will save us all from your untrue answers – the only reason why you believe someone lived 950 years, is because it says that in an ancient holy book … but just because it says something apparently impossible in an ancient book, that does not make it true, does it! … as far as we know from all of modern science, it actually is “impossible” for a human person to live 950 years … in modern times (say the last 100 years) we can check accurately with medical science whether such claims are true … we can check anyones genuine age … and as I said above the oldest genuine age is found to be a French woman who lived to 122 (she died in 1997) …

… you are talking about a person who is supposed to have been alive in 3000BC (!!), at a time when there was no modern science to check the fantastic claims that people often made. Why is it that all your claims of the seemingly impossible, such as Noah being 950 years old, all happend at a time when nobody could check whether it was ever true? … why is it that now, in modern times, where we can actually check the truth of the claims that people make, we never find that any such claims are true … the claims always turn out to be untrue ancient mythology and superstition. What is more likely – (a) that someone lives an apparently impossible 900 years, for which they can produce no evidence at all, or (b) that people in biblical and pre-biblical times were simply repeating untrue fables and superstitious myths? What is more likely, (a) that someones claim of fantastic miracles is actually true, but always with zero evidence and always where the claim cannot be checked, or (b) is it more likely that their claim was an untrue invention?

OK, so to summarise some of that -

1 It is YOUR claim that Noah lived 950 years, so it is YOU (not me or anyone else here) who must produce the evidence to prove your own claim … so where is your evidence to show that anyone could live 900 years? … you also said it was not impossible; so again you need to prove that statement – can you prove it's possible for someone to live 900 years?

2 Why do such religious claims of the fantastic, only ever occur in times where it could not be checked? Why does no such thing ever happen today where we can check if the claim is true?

3 If I tell you that my uncle is 900 years old, but where you cannot check and where I produce no evidence, then is it more likely that my astonishing and seemingly impossible claim is true, or is it more likely that I am not telling the truth?


Regarding highlight number 2 – you say that the Koran is not a copy of any more ancient beliefs. But the Koran was apparently written about 1000 years AFTER the Old Testament bible & and about 600 years AFTER the new testament bible, and as far as I know everyone agrees with that (even Muslims). That is – the stories and the beliefs written in the Koran, appeared many hundreds of years, and even thousands of years, after the same stories and other very similar stories had already been believed & written about in much earlier books such as the bible … in fact similar religious stories had been written about for thousands of years even before the NT & OT bibles You cannot claim that the koran was new or unique when it was first written, because it was actually repeating many of the same religious stories that had already been known & preached for hundreds and thousands of years.

Also you just claimed that the koran and the bibles were “sent by God”. OK, so that is your claim which you are stating as a certain fact … so again; where is your evidence that any such God has ever existed? … it's your claim, the burden is entirely upon you when you make claims like that … so where is the evidence?

Finally, your third claim in highlight number 3 – The Journal of New Sciences, appears to be an extremely obscure publication produced in Tunisaia, and mainly intended for reports about agriculture and animals! ... I could not find the claimed paper by Ballard in May 2002 - please give a proper link to the actual paper, and quote the passage from the paper that you are caiming as evidence of Noah being 950 years old with an Ark still sitting somewhere on top of any mountain.

- Hello. I understand what you are saying: in modern times such a life is not possible. My question to you was: We have no evidence that 950 years of life is impossible. It is true? Again, please provide evidence for the impossibility of 950 years of life. These scientific statements that you are saying do not say that a long life is not possible. pay attention.
- I have read the list of the oldest people. Yes, we are not more than 120 to 122 years old. But you have not answered my question above yet. And you have not provided any evidence as to whether 950 years of life is possible for this definite reason. pay attention.
- The medical reasons you say and insist on do not say that 950 years of life is impossible.
- Read the recorded history of the prophets: Adam 930 years - Idris 365 years - Hood 460 years - Shoaib 242 years - Saleh 280 years - Abraham 175 years - Isaac 180 years. They have lived. And their whole life has been natural but extraordinary.
- Note that we have three prophets who are still alive: Khidr 6000 years - Jesus 2000 years - Elijah 2900 years. They have lived this long and still hit.
- I say again and I ask you: you say that it is impossible for anyone to live 950 years. Therefore, you must provide a logical reason and documentary evidence to refute this claim, which is in history and in the Qur'an. You must provide evidence to refute this claim of the Qur'an and history. The Qur'an itself is a historical and authentic documentary document. Sumerian tablets and Assyrian inscriptions are well-documented documents. And archaeologists have confirmed it. Its remains are in museums, especially the French Museum.
Finally, I would like to say that I have witnessed the flood of Noah.
But I do not see the capacity of this group to say.

 

[IanS]

Hello Master. Thank you for your beautiful answer !! If you believe that the Qur'an is a lie. Or copied old books. Or not scientific. Please bring a surah like Quran with the help of all human beings in the world! What if you could not bring even one verse like the Quran if you are truthful? Please just one verse like Quran ... I am waiting. I am waiting.

Well the post that you are replying to, was a parody of the way that you have been writing (where you just make a series of fantastic claims without any genuine evidence). So you were not supposed to take the words of that post seriously/literally, as if to argue with those words.

But above you appear to be asking me produce something you call a "sura" in order to prove the Koran wrong. AFAIK a "sura" is some Arabic word describing religious edicts in the Koran ... but that is not evidence of anything, whether it's in the Koran or whether you ask me produce any "sura" of my own! ... what is needed to decide if the Koran is true, or in fact to decide if anything is ever true, is scientifically valid tested and confirmed published evidence.

But it is YOU who is making the claims from the Koran, such as claiming that Noah really was 950 years old and that his Arc is indeed now on top of a mountain where you say it has been photographed etc., ... those are YOUR claims, so the burden is entirely upon YOU to provide genuine scientifically published studies to show that what you say is true ... I've asked you several times now to give us links to any such genuine science research papers supporting what you say, and you have so far failed to do that.

AFAIK there are no such genuine scientific research reports of anyone finding even the slightest hint of any remaining Arc anywhere. And certainly no scientific evidence at all that it would ever be possible for a human person to live much beyond 120 years let alone to 950 years!

It's your job to produce the genuine published scientific papers that support even the smallest hint of anything you have claimed from the Koran ...but I have already asked you before seveal times to do that, and so far you cannot produce even the slightest spec of any genuine evidence for any of it!

However, even apart from all of that, if you have any education at all in science, then you must know that science does not support any of those claims from holy books like the Koran. You must know that science would entirely reject any claim that a person living in 3000BC could live to be 950 years old. You must actually know that.

The same could be said for every supernatural or miraculous story from the Koran (or any bible) – they are flatly contradicted outright & completely by everything that we have now learned from science … miracles simply do not happen, ever! … and invisible creator gods are not possible within any known evidence, explanation, or theories/laws of any part of science … such gods are almost certainly impossible on all known genuine evidence … and the only way that you could not know that, is if you insist on remaining scientifically uneducated.

 

[Scorpion]

I would like to say that I have witnessed the flood of Noah.

Do tell us more about how and when you witnessed the flood of Noah.

 

[Scorpion]

- you say that it is impossible for anyone to live 950 years. Therefore, you must provide a logical reason and documentary evidence to refute this claim, which is in history and in the Qur'an. You must provide evidence to refute this claim of the Qur'an and history..

I have already done that, by stating in post 1044 that an early translation of the bible mistakenly copied the numbering system, probably from Hebrew to Greek.
Then the Quran copied these wrong numbers, giving ridiculous ages for the bible characters.

 

[Pixel42]

- Hello. I understand what you are saying: in modern times such a life is not possible. My question to you was: We have no evidence that 950 years of life is impossible. It is true? Again, please provide evidence for the impossibility of 950 years of life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_life_span#Non-demographic_evidence

Evidence for maximum lifespan is also provided by the dynamics of physiological indices with age. For example, scientists have observed that a person's VO2max value (a measure of the volume of oxygen flow to the cardiac muscle) decreases as a function of age. Therefore, the maximum lifespan of a person could be determined by calculating when the person's VO2max value drops below the basal metabolic rate necessary to sustain life, which is approximately 3 ml per kg per minute.[16][page needed] On the basis of this hypothesis, athletes with a VO2max value between 50 and 60 at age 20 would be expected "to live for 100 to 125 years, provided they maintained their physical activity so that their rate of decline in VO2max remained constant".[17]

Longitudinal variations of physiological indices, such as complete blood counts (CBC), along individual aging trajectories revealed a linear increase of the organism state fluctuations range with age. The broadening could be explained by a progressive loss of physiological resilience measured by the individual blood factors inverse auto-correlation times. Extrapolation of this data suggested that organism state recovery time and variance could simultaneously diverge at a critical point of 120 – 150 years of age corresponding to a complete loss of resilience and hence should be incompatible with survival. The criticality resulting in the end of life is an intrinsic biological property of an organism that is independent of stress factors and signifies a fundamental or absolute limit of human lifespan.[18]

 

[IanS]

- Hello. I understand what you are saying: in modern times such a life is not possible. My question to you was: We have no evidence that 950 years of life is impossible. It is true? Again, please provide evidence for the impossibility of 950 years of life. These scientific statements that you are saying do not say that a long life is not possible. pay attention.
- I have read the list of the oldest people. Yes, we are not more than 120 to 122 years old. But you have not answered my question above yet. And you have not provided any evidence as to whether 950 years of life is possible for this definite reason. pay attention.
- The medical reasons you say and insist on do not say that 950 years of life is impossible.
- Read the recorded history of the prophets: Adam 930 years - Idris 365 years - Hood 460 years - Shoaib 242 years - Saleh 280 years - Abraham 175 years - Isaac 180 years. They have lived. And their whole life has been natural but extraordinary.
- Note that we have three prophets who are still alive: Khidr 6000 years - Jesus 2000 years - Elijah 2900 years. They have lived this long and still hit.
- I say again and I ask you: you say that it is impossible for anyone to live 950 years. Therefore, you must provide a logical reason and documentary evidence to refute this claim, which is in history and in the Qur'an. You must provide evidence to refute this claim of the Qur'an and history. The Qur'an itself is a historical and authentic documentary document. Sumerian tablets and Assyrian inscriptions are well-documented documents. And archaeologists have confirmed it. Its remains are in museums, especially the French Museum.
Finally, I would like to say that I have witnessed the flood of Noah.
But I do not see the capacity of this group to say.

I have pointed out to you at least 5 or 6 times now that it is YOU who is claiming that Noah lived to be 950 years old ... That is YOUR claim ... and the burden is therefore entirely upon YOU to prove your claim ... I have no burden on showing such things are impossible ... The responsibility rests entirely with you ... it is YOU who must provide genuine valid evidence to show what YOU claim is true ...

... just quoting what was written 1500 years ago as religious beliefs in the Koran from people who were educationally completely ignorant, is not evidence that any such writer of the Koran knew anything at all about how long any person such as Noah actually lived. That is pure religious belief in the miraculous ... it is not any kind of honest evidence at all ...

... please produce the actual evidence to support your claim that someone lived to be 950 years old.

And while you are searching for evidence – I think you also claimed that there are photographs of the remains of the Arc on the mountain? … in which case - please also produce those photos. Do not ask me to prove that it's impossible for anyone have taken any photos … it's YOUR claim, so please produce the photos.

 

[Craig4]

Hello. Welcome to our discussion. Please refer to the Quran. He tells you that God spoke to Muhammad through revelation. The Qur'an tells you everything in detail. Of course, I have also told parts of this book in this discussion to my dear associates. See my posts. Good luck

No. You need to establish a god exists and said god talked to the author first. Until you do that, the Quran is just a hack rag.

 

[Mojo]

- Note that we have three prophets who are still alive: Khidr 6000 years - Jesus 2000 years - Elijah 2900 years. They have lived this long and still hit.

Any chance that you could get them to register for the forum?

 

[Carrot Flower King]

And we come back to the basic problems in any "discussion" with a holy book literalist/religious fundamentalist: the book says so; goddidit; nothing else can be considered.

It's an insult to intelligence.