The Stimulus Seems to have failed

BeAChooser said:
Now why am I skeptical? :D
Click to expand...

You're an irrational ideologue who sees imaginary communist enemies everywhere?

Besides, how many people in the world do you reckon respect Helen Keller and Martin Luther King Jr. for their economic views. :rolleyes: You'd have a point if I said Lenin, but Helen Keller and MLK? Like I said, irrational ideologue.
 
BeAChooser said:
But noone wants to go *there*. Much less admit that if this were a corporation, the CEO and his staff would be kicked to the street. Because that's why private enterprise works … and government doesn't.
Click to expand...
"noone" is not a word.

Yeah, private industry is ruthlessly efficient. Consider the financial industry. Bailed out with Trillions of dollars. Yes, Trillions. Yet you cannot name me a CEO who has been kicked to the street.
 
SezMe said:
"noone" is not a word.

Yeah, private industry is ruthlessly efficient. Consider the financial industry. Bailed out with Trillions of dollars. Yes, Trillions. Yet you cannot name me a CEO who has been kicked to the street.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the banking crisis really took a chunk out of the side of the theory that the private sector is more willing to fire and hire when people screw up.
 
stokes234 said:
Yeah, the banking crisis really took a chunk out of the side of the theory that the private sector is more willing to fire and hire when people screw up.
Click to expand...

Define "screw up".

Because, from a business standpoint, a lot of those guys made a lot more money for their respective company than their respective company lost...
 
BobTheDonkey said:
Define "screw up".

Because, from a business standpoint, a lot of those guys made a lot more money for their respective company than their respective company lost...
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting they planned to be bailed out by the government? Or are you saying that a screw-up in the private industry is fine if the taxpayer helps you out of it?
 
stokes234 said:
Are you suggesting they planned to be bailed out by the government? Or are you saying that a screw-up in the private industry is fine if the taxpayer helps you out of it?
Click to expand...

All I'm saying is that people made a lot of money prior to the market crashing. As long as the losses during the crash are covered by what was made before the crash and during the rebound, it's not exactly a "screw up" from a business side of the table.

But, that doesn't include all the businesses that actually lost out on the deal.


Just saying that from our perspective, these guys screwed the pooch with the economy. From their Board's point of view, they gambled, it paid out in the overall picture, that's a win.
 
They gambled with other people's lives, money and economic security, lost, and then expected those people to pick up the tab. Sure from the business perspective they won. From everyone else's perspective, they screwed us and laughed while we picked up the pieces.

I'm no economist, but I don't think you need to be one to understand that there were no options available to those in political power other than to try and keep these monsters going. The alternative was simply untenable.
 
nvidiot said:
They gambled with other people's lives, money and economic security, lost, and then expected those people to pick up the tab. Sure from the business perspective they won. From everyone else's perspective, they screwed us and laughed while we picked up the pieces.

I'm no economist, but I don't think you need to be one to understand that there were no options available to those in political power other than to try and keep these monsters going. The alternative was simply untenable.
Click to expand...
Mortgages, the underlying real world product which backed mortgage derivatives and other instruments that fundamentally caused the crash, ALWAYS WERE underwritten by the US Government.

You didn't complain about that when you got your house loan at a lower rate than would otherwise have been the case.
 
nvidiot said:
They gambled with other people's lives, money and economic security, lost, and then expected those people to pick up the tab. Sure from the business perspective they won. From everyone else's perspective, they screwed us and laughed while we picked up the pieces.

I'm no economist, but I don't think you need to be one to understand that there were no options available to those in political power other than to try and keep these monsters going. The alternative was simply untenable.
Click to expand...

You won't find any argument from me there. Just pointing out that this is where the Free Market failed to self-correct.
 
SezMe said:
BAC, you use that smiley so often in so many inappropriate circumstances that it has completely and entirely lost its meaning in your posts.
Click to expand...

So you want to talk about smiley's, rather than the stimulus and *recovery*, too? :rolleyes:
 
SezMe said:
"noone" is not a word.
Click to expand...

Now if only the democrat controlled education system had done as thorough a job teaching you economics and honesty. ;)

SezMe said:
Consider the financial industry. Bailed out with Trillions of dollars. Yes, Trillions. Yet you cannot name me a CEO who has been kicked to the street.
Click to expand...

Why should they be? They successfully managed to extract trillions of dollars from the socialist fools running our federal government. Stockholders must be elated at that. :D

And isn't that pretty much the same phenomena we see in democrats who continue to support Obama because he managed to extract trillions (yes, trillions, SM) of dollars in new welfare from helpless taxpayers? :D

And by the way, most of the recipients of that socialist largess (Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase, Merrill Lynch, Bank of America, etc) happened to be left leaning supporters of the democratic party.

For example …Goldman Sachs got billions and billions of bailout dollars and why not … the firm for the last decade has given most of it's campaign contributions to democrats. In fact, the firm gave four times as much money to Obama's campaign as McCain's. In fact, GS ranked either first or second (depending on who you read) in overall contributions to the Obama campaign. And why shouldn't that be the case given the number of top people in Obama's adminstration and support network who had or have ties to GS? There are literally dozens of them.

Or consider Bank of America. You couldn't find a better friend of the democrats than that institutution, SM: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/did-th...ank-of-america-pjm-exclusive/?singlepage=true . :D

Or how about Citigroup's hiring of former White House Budget Director Peter Orszag. Now why would a firm that really believed in market capitalism hire an economist trained at the London School of Economics … whose founders established the school to bring down capitalism and herald in socialism? Why would a firm that really believe in market capitalism rank fifth or sixth (depending on the source) in overall contributions to the Obama campaign?

In fact, according to http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ostertag/goldman-sachs-obama-money_b_177611.html , four out of Obama's top five contributors were employees of financial industry giants, with Goldman Sachs at the top of the list. JPMorgan and Lehman Brothers were near the top too. Now why aren't I surprised about any of that? :rolleyes:

And you Obama supporters thought Obama couldn't be bought? :rolleyes:

And you Obama supporters think businesses won't act in their own self interest ... accept money from government if the government is willing to hand it out? You think businesses would fire those who manage to acquire and accept such money? My, my ... aren't you naive. :D
 
Last edited:
So did Obama's stimulus and government interference, like Hoover's, turn a recession into a depression? And if so so, what's in store now?

http://biggovernment.com/waroot/201...dy-begun/?utm_source=like&utm_campaign=ingboo

Has the Greatest Depression Already Begun?

… snip …

This time the results are going to be dramatically worse than 1929. … snip …

In 1929 America was not $100 trillion in debt and unfunded liabilities.

In 1929, most of our states were not bankrupt, insolvent and dependent on the federal government to survive.

In 1929, we had far fewer government employees living off taxpayers. Today 1 out of 5 federal employees earn over $100,000. California lifeguards and Las Vegas firemen earn $200,000. 77,000 federal employees earn more than the Governors of their states. Government employees retire at age 50 with $100,000 pensions for life. The postal service – without competition- loses $8 billion annually. Protected by their unions and the politicians they elect, government employees are bankrupting America. Even FDR said he could not imagine allowing public employees to unionize.

In 1929, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid didn’t exist. The federal government had no such obligations threatening to consume the entire federal budget within a few years.

In 1929, there was no such thing as welfare, food stamps, aid to dependent children, or English as a second language programs. American’s didn’t consider it the responsibility of government to pay for breakfast and lunch for school students – let alone illegal immigrants.

In 1929, we didn’t have millions of illegal immigrants and their children collecting billions of dollars in entitlements from U.S. taxpayers.

In 1929, legal immigrants wanted only to work. My grandparents from Russia and Germany received no government benefits. They worked day and night to provide for their family and become American citizens. It was sink or swim.

In 1929, we had 150 million citizens with a strong work ethic- all motivated to earn the American Dream for their children and grandchildren. Americans were hungry in 1929. Today the hungry, motivated citizens and entrepreneurs are in China and India.

In 1929, we had an education system that was the envy of the world. Today our public schools are in shambles. We spend the most in the world, and get among the worst results. The difference today? Teachers unions are in charge, instead of parents[.] Our students are taught socialism and the great benefits of big government. They graduate with few skills, qualified only for low paying manufacturing jobs that no longer exist- they’ve been shipped to China and India. What will this workforce do for the rest of their lives? Live off the government dole? Who will pay for it?

In 1929 children had hope for the future. Today they are hopeless, helpless, and clueless – an entire generation that only knows drugs, gangs, rappers, government handouts, teen pregnancy- and it goes downhill from there.

In 1929 taxes were much lower. Forget the tax rates- they were meaningless. In those days we had a cash economy, so most businesses paid little or no taxes. Sales and FICA taxes didn’t exist. Today the combined local, state, property, gas, sales, FICA and federal taxes are the highest burden in history. This stifles entrepreneurship and hinders the financial risk-taking necessary to create jobs and get out of a Great Depression.
Click to expand...

Not to ruin your day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom