The Stimulus Seems to have failed

[BeAChooser]

Just how long can a recovery (?) be "delayed" before another timely recession comes around?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/05/guaranteeing_double_dip_recess.html

May 28, 2011

Guaranteeing a Double Dip Recession

In late 2007 America entered into what has been called, "the Great Recession." … snip … The "wizards of smart assured us that the solution to this great problem was more government spending, easy money, low interest rates, and massive government involvement in the economy. Four years later, America is experiencing a weak and anemic recovery fueled, and threatened, by those very policies.

According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, overall prices have increased on average .5% per month, for the last five months. The slow and anemic growth in our economy, the lack of jobs being created, and poor numbers in vital markets, like housing, suggest that the rise in prices is not the result of higher demand but a decline in buying power from a falling dollar. This is further evidenced by the extraordinary rise in commodities like gold, oil, and food. Over the last 12 months, energy prices have risen 32% and Gold has risen 27%, while average wages increased by less than 1%. These numbers reflect a dangerous trend that the Federal Reserve would normally want to reverse or, at the very least, slow for fear of rampant runaway inflation; but that is not the case today. Indeed, the rise in prices was the desired result of the Federal Reserve to avoid what it considers to be more dangerous, deflation. The problem with high inflation, and the solution to high inflation, is that it will cause another recession.

… snip …

America is about to get a first hand lesson on the failures of Keynesian economics and government intervention.

 

[BeAChooser]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...y-is-faltering/2011/06/01/AGYp8OGH_story.html

U.S. economic recovery is faltering

LOL! Is the WaPo just waking up to this? No. They've just been hiding the bad news from their readers. But things must be growing really be dire if even the mouth piece of the democratic party, the Washington Post, has to admit there *might* be a problem, *Houston*.

And as the article in post #1549 suggested, if the real inflation numbers were used, we'd already be "officially" in recession. But noone wants to go *there*. Much less admit that if this were a corporation, the CEO and his staff would be kicked to the street. Because that's why private enterprise works … and government doesn't. Especially socialist government.

No, instead we get to look forward to another year and half of Obama's *leadership* with the possibility the beggars might keep him in office for another 4 years after that. How do you think the 45 million on food stamps are going to vote? Hmmmmmm?

 

[themusicteacher]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...y-is-faltering/2011/06/01/AGYp8OGH_story.html



LOL! Is the WaPo just waking up to this? No. They've just been hiding the bad news from their readers. But things must be growing really be dire if even the mouth piece of the democratic party, the Washington Post, has to admit there *might* be a problem, *Houston*.

And as the article in post #1549 suggested, if the real inflation numbers were used, we'd already be "officially" in recession. But noone wants to go *there*. Much less admit that if this were a corporation, the CEO and his staff would be kicked to the street. Because that's why private enterprise works … and government doesn't. Especially socialist government.

No, instead we get to look forward to another year and half of Obama's *leadership* with the possibility the beggars might keep him in office for another 4 years after that. How do you think the 45 million on food stamps are going to vote? Hmmmmmm?

Glad to see you gloating over American's losing jobs, their homes and their will to live. Real classy. What have the Repub's done in terms of "leadership"? Jack****, that's what. They've spent their ENTIRE time in power trying to figure out only how to shrink the government small enough to stuff it in a womans vagina and you think it's funny? Giving tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires hasn't done ANYTHING to help the situation. What do you think the failure of most of the auto manufacturers (that have paid off their loans, btw) would have done? Made things better? The sheer gall of your giddiness at Americans lives becoming worse is disgusting.

 

[Just thinking]

How do you think the 45 million on food stamps are going to vote? Hmmmmmm?

That's known in the business as re-election insurance.

 

[BeAChooser]

Glad to see you gloating over American's losing jobs, their homes and their will to live. Real classy.

You apparently don't understand the meaning of my .

I'm not gloating at Americans losing jobs or homes. Far from it. I'm quite concerned about what is happening and soon to get even worse.

No, I'm laughing at Obamaphiles like you (am I right?).

At people who continue to blame the republicans for everything and ignore the reality of what democrats have done and are still doing to the economy.

And by the way ...

Jack****

"Real classy."

in a womans vagina

"Real classy."

 

[BeAChooser]

That's known in the business as re-election insurance.

Indeed. Read a SF book titled "Beggars and Choosers" by Nancy Kress. It was published in 1994. You'll see why we should all be Choosers.

 

[mhaze]

Glad to see you gloating over American's losing jobs, their homes and their will to live. Real classy. What have the Repub's done in terms of "leadership"? Jack****, that's what. They've spent their ENTIRE time in power trying to figure out only how to shrink the government small enough to stuff it in a womans vagina and you think it's funny? Giving tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires hasn't done ANYTHING to help the situation. What do you think the failure of most of the auto manufacturers (that have paid off their loans, btw) would have done? Made things better? The sheer gall of your giddiness at Americans lives becoming worse is disgusting.

Hey, two things (1) get real (2) get a life.

It's not just repubs that voted to not extend the debt ceiling, a boatload of democrats went with that. Check it out.

And 150 leading economists.

As for auto, that's a classic over capacity problem in an industry, which is basically solved by closing plants or companies.

Ben Bernanke: "The medium term outlook for America is quite dark". 3-25-2009, I believe.

BAC laughs at those who are .... hard to be polite about this .... DELUSIONAL....

 

[mhaze]

Well, I first head talk going back and forth a few days ago on CNBC and then CNN later in the day. (Language kept including the words "Double Dip" and "Now it's Official".) What they were referring to was this ...

Clear Capital® Reports National Double Dip

Report highlights include:

National quarterly home prices changed -4.9%; while year-over-year national price changes reached -5.0%.
National home prices have fallen 11.5% over the previous nine-month period, a rate of decline not experienced since 2008.
In a sign of the continued volatility and fragility of home prices, all the major Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSA) tracked in this month’s report showed quarter-over-quarter price declines.
National REO saturation rate reaches 34.5%.

Interesting. I know that the average guy that bought into the $8000 tax credit for first time home purchase now owns a home worth 15,000 less.

Well....it's about this time in a recession cycle that people need to start being VERY cautious about making decisions based on what the government says or making deals based on inducements from the government.

Just saying....

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

You apparently don't understand the meaning of my .

I'm not gloating at Americans losing jobs or homes. Far from it. I'm quite concerned about what is happening and soon to get even worse.

No, I'm laughing at Obamaphiles like you (am I right?).

As many times as I've seen you respond to that accusation you've completely missed the point. They understand that you're laughing at what you immaturely refer to as "Obamaphiles" (we can safely call you a Reaganphile, right?), what you fail to understand is that they're criticizing you for taking so much joy in the loss of American jobs. Regardless of whether you're laughing at "Obamaphiles", "Democrats", or "Liberals" the fact remains that you are taking joy from the loss of those jobs, it's positively ghoulish.

And I'll once again step in and call you out for over-reliance on OP-EDs to prosecute your war on JREF liberalism.

 

[BeAChooser]

what you fail to understand is that they're criticizing you for taking so much joy in the loss of American jobs.

You too are wrong. I'm not taking joy in the loss of American jobs. My joy is that ... perhaps ... finally ... Americans will wake up to what leftists, socialists, communists, and communist admirers (like you) have done and are continuing to do to this country, it's economy, it's security and it's freedoms. And what they have done is what is "positively ghoulish". In fact, our nation's founders are likely turning in their graves at this very moment.

And in this instance, indicates that I'm laughing at people like you, KF. Because YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. And when that happens, ... well ... sometimes all one can do is laugh.

 

[BeAChooser]

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/05/31/how-housing-could-rebound-in-2025/

House prices have fallen further in the past five years than they did in the Great Depression – and there's no sign the free fall is about to stop.

… snip …

So how long till you get your head back above water on a house bought at the top of the market? Try 2025. In after the Depression-era housing bust, Dales writes, prices took 19 years to reclaim their previous peak. If you're in the market for a greatly depressing thought, it's a good one.

I know! More stimulus! More stimulus! And make sure that more poor people can buy houses! That's the ticket! It's a right! Isn't that what many democrats went on chanting ... even after the first mortgage collapse and the failure of the first stimulus? Hmmmmmmmm?

 

[mhaze]

As many times as I've seen you respond to that accusation you've completely missed the point. They understand that you're laughing at what you immaturely refer to as "Obamaphiles" (we can safely call you a Reaganphile, right?), what you fail to understand is that they're criticizing you for taking so much joy in the loss of American jobs. Regardless of whether you're laughing at "Obamaphiles", "Democrats", or "Liberals" the fact remains that you are taking joy from the loss of those jobs, it's positively ghoulish....

Ghoulish? You talking about the people I didn't hire last year because of the attitudes of you and your type, including those in the White House, and the clear implications of those attitudes for calculation of risk and profit?

I'll laugh at that one, namely because the ghoul hat is you and yours, not mine. So go on and try it on, buddy. Have fun with that hat, but don't lecture me.

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

You too are wrong. I'm not taking joy in the loss of American jobs. My joy is that ... perhaps ... finally ... Americans will wake up to what leftists, socialists, communists, and communist admirers (like you) have done and are continuing to do to this country, it's economy, it's security and it's freedoms. And what they have done is what is "positively ghoulish". In fact, our nation's founders are likely turning in their graves at this very moment.

Ironic since they booted your sort out of the White House and congress.

What's ghoulish is using the loss of US jobs to win partisan games, I note you're proposing no solutions but merely taking joy in their suffering because it's a hit against any number of views individuals on the left may have. This is what people are taking issue with, this is what you continue to hand-wave away, this is why your laughing is ghoulish.

And in this instance, indicates that I'm laughing at people like you, KF. Because YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. And when that happens, ... well ... sometimes all one can do is laugh.

And all I can do is put my face in palm and weep for the state of American conservatism if this is the sort of people who champion its cause today.

Ghoulish? You talking about the people I didn't hire last year because of the attitudes of you and your type, including those in the White House, and the clear implications of those attitudes for calculation of risk and profit?

And I once again note you're proposing no solutions. Rather you're sitting back, like a vulture, to use the suffering of hard-working Americans to gain political victories. If the current path is so terrible, put up or shut up. Preferably with something that wasn't quote-mined from an OP-ED like BAC.

I'll laugh at that one, namely because the ghoul hat is you and yours, not mine. So go on and try it on, buddy. Have fun with that hat, but don't lecture me.

Again, I'm weeping at the state of American conservatism.

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

I know! More stimulus! More stimulus! And make sure that more poor people can buy houses! That's the ticket! It's a right! Isn't that what many democrats went on chanting ... even after the first mortgage collapse and the failure of the first stimulus? Hmmmmmmmm?

Again, quote-mining OP-EDs and acting as if it's a valid argument.

 

[BeAChooser]

What's ghoulish is using the loss of US jobs to win partisan games

What's ghoulish is promoting policies that you know will cost economic growth and jobs just to make people more dependent and thus more susceptible to the empty promises of communist admiring leftists like you.

I note you're proposing no solutions

LOL! Solutions have been proposed. Which you leftists either ignore or misrepresent to the public (as you are now during with regards to the Ryan plan). And that's ghoulish.

you're sitting back, like a vulture

The only vultures I see around here are the Disciples of Cloward-Piven and The Fabian Society ... leftists who are deliberately instituting policies that will collapse capitalism and increase dependency, opening the door for socialists, communists and communist admirers to take control.

 

[mhaze]

...you're proposing no solutions. Rather you're sitting back, like a vulture, to use the suffering of hard-working Americans to gain political victories. ......

bull. I am commenting on when and under what of my own assessment of political and economic futures I may choose to create jobs, while you seem to be engaged in a strange sort of mental masterbation.

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

What's ghoulish is promoting policies that you know will cost economic growth and jobs just to make people more dependent and thus more susceptible to the empty promises of communist admiring leftists like you.

For the final time, admiring people who were communists/socialists is not the same as agreeing with their economic policies. Apparently, Helen Keller was a monster beyond compare just because she was a socialist. Let's toss Dr. King in there too.

LOL! Solutions have been proposed. Which you leftists either ignore or misrepresent to the public (as you are now during with regards to the Ryan plan). And that's ghoulish.

Maybe we wouldn't do so if the people championing it weren't lackluster and ignorant in their defense, present company included.

The only vultures I see around here are the Disciples of Cloward-Piven and The Fabian Society ...

You should try a mirror then. Only bringing up the suffering of the American worker when it scores you partisan points with your imaginary cult of lurkers is definitely vulture-like behavior.

leftists who are deliberately instituting policies that will collapse capitalism and increase dependency, opening the door for socialists, communists and communist admirers to take control.

CT is that way --->

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

bull. I am commenting on when and under what of my own assessment of political and economic futures I may choose to create jobs, while you seem to be engaged in a strange sort of mental masterbation.

By all means then, propose your solutions. And do it without appealing to quote-mined, unsourced OP-EDs. But actually propose a solution, don't sit and BS me with proposal syou may have made in the past, actually present something other than an extensive "nuh uh!".

 

[BeAChooser]

Apparently, Helen Keller was a monster beyond compare just because she was a socialist. Let's toss Dr. King in there too.

Helen Keller?

http://theshotandbeerjoint.blogspot.com/2009/10/notorious-helen-keller.html

I'm going to say something now that may offend, Helen Keller is literally the epitome of those who support socialism and communism. Her blindness never let her see the truth on just how evil the institutions of both political philosophies are. Also, her deafness never let her hear the side of freedom and independence. She was the perfect voice for socialism, she was never taught any way different. She was Vladimir Lenin's perfect "Useful Idiot".

And Martin Luther King?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/archives/fm/02-91.html

The Economics of*Martin Luther King, Jr.

... snip ...

We're supposed to venerate Martin Luther King, Jr., but that's not easy for a believer in economic liberty. Time and again, King called on us to "question the capitalistic economy" and "restructure America."

... snip ...

King, however, believed in government sway, calling capitalism a system "permitting necessities to be taken from the many to give luxuries to the few. " The "profit motive" has "encouraged smallhearted men to become cold and conscienceless."

What was his alternative? The loss motive?

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

You'll note the reason why I never originally told you was because you would immediately ignore all other aspects of the conversation to focus on that fact alone. You'll also note, however, that this plays nicely for me because my intent in the first place was to demonstrate that you're an irrational ideologue. You've played into that beautifully over the past year, constructing illogical conspiracy theories and practically accusing me of being a communist sympathizer. Now you've put the nail in your own coffin by choosing to focus on their socialism as my reason for admiring them both rather than their contributions to civil rights, which I now assume you opposed.

Of course the first thing you post is the most irrational, unrelated thing possible. I never stated I like their economic policies, I don't. That doesn't mean I'm unable to support, appreciate, and respect their contributions to civil rights? Do you not BAC? Are you opposed to Helen Keller's efforts in womans liberation and King's focus on gaining equal rights for blacks?