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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

I have a lot of Christmassy things to do over the next few days so possibly the weekend.
No.

You've spent several days and ten pages rearguing the stale EPIRB issue and avoiding the Brandenburg report. You clearly have time to participate in this thread without intolerable effects on real life. You've been asked several times politely to spend some of that time demonstrating your allegedly superior ability to interpret the Brandenburg report. Please do so now.
 
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I have a lot of Christmassy things to do over the next few days so possibly the weekend.
Actually never. You will never do this thing that you do not have the ability to do. You will continue to deflect and make up excuses in the vain hope that JayUtah will tire of reminding you. I don't see that happening.
 
No it is fact as show to you by manufacturers documents, personal, practical experience with EPIRB buoys and the recovery report for the units being discussed.

At this point it's obvious you are just posting to get a reaction or you have some kind of illness
I am very well thank you. You are welcome to believe whatever you want to believe, even if it's a lie dressed as truth. No skin off my nose. The problem here is your trying to coerce me into adopting your claim. I am not even going to evangelise about the issue because a fact will always remain a fact. No amount of profanities or name-calling can change it. So you believe whatever you want believe because that is your prerogative.
 
I am very well thank you. You are welcome to believe whatever you want to believe, even if it's a lie dressed as truth. No skin off my nose.
If you have time to whine about how badly you think you're being treated, you have time to interpret the Brandenburg report. Kindly quit stalling and do so.
 
I am very well thank you. You are welcome to believe whatever you want to believe, even if it's a lie dressed as truth. No skin off my nose. The problem here is your trying to coerce me into adopting your claim. I am not even going to evangelise about the issue because a fact will always remain a fact. No amount of profanities or name-calling can change it. So you believe whatever you want believe because that is your prerogative.
You're going to carry on lying.
 
I am very well thank you. You are welcome to believe whatever you want to believe, even if it's a lie dressed as truth. No skin off my nose. The problem here is your trying to coerce me into adopting your claim. I am not even going to evangelise about the issue because a fact will always remain a fact. No amount of profanities or name-calling can change it. So you believe whatever you want believe because that is your prerogative.
It is a claim backed with documentation from manufacturers and the investigatiors of the sinking which includes the report of the recovery and testing of the buoys.
This is backed up by direct personal and practical experience with EPIRB buoys by two different people involved in the thread.

All you have is a mistranslation of a newspaper report.
 
It is a claim backed with documentation from manufacturers and the investigatiors of the sinking which includes the report of the recovery and testing of the buoys.
This is backed up by direct personal and practical experience with EPIRB buoys by two different people involved in the thread.

All you have is a mistranslation of a newspaper report.
I'm not certain that it actually was a mistranslation:
Almost certainly Google translate but if the translation came out as 'armed' then it is common sense to apply a more apt meaning.
 
Christ, just say you don't know how to explain whatever the hell it is in the Brandenburg report. People respect other people who are able to admit they don't know.
That would be an acceptable answer from a normal person. Unfortunately we in this thread have to deal with such nuggets of arrogance as...
I have the full hard copies of the laboratory reports as per a paperback book. I have read it. You have not. Which of us is better placed to assess the findings?

@Vixen is quite busy making sure we can't form an informed conclusion regarding which of us is better placed to assess the findings. SwRI was a swing and a miss.
 
I read it somewhere but I found when I typed in the query: "do cruise vessels swtich off their EPIRBS in dry dock?" the first answer, which was AI overview, which is not always known to be accurate, responds - and I am confident this matches what I understood from elsewhere:
And since all AI responses note the source of their “opinion”, what is the source of this assertion.?
I searched for the sentence above and received the AI response. None of the sources “cited” by Google AI support even its assertion above.
Feel free to prove me wrong. All the AI did was agree with your assertion - as they are built to do, more often than not.

You seem to make an assertion to support your CT and then, and only then, search the Internet for something to support your assertion.

Again, what is the source of your assertion? “I read it somewhere” is not a source.
Why did you have to do a new AI search to support your assertion?
 
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What we're seeing here is a prime example of CTist logic in play.

Every CT starts with a handful of "unanswered questions" that the investigative bodies couldn't not answer for whatever reason. As reasonable people know, in an accident investigation the goal is to pin down the cause, or causes of the event. Planes, cars, and trains don't just crash, buildings don't just catch on fire at random, bridges don't collapse out of the blue. Half the time the causes are obvious, but the investigation will still start at zero to work the evidence to arrive at a conclusion. They do this because the cause of the accident might not be what it initially appeared to be. Yet they do the work. Wreckage is inspected, bodies are autopsied, radar/FDRs/instruments/surveillance footage reviewed, additional, structural, and parts testing is done. Results are presented and sometimes debated. And then an official report is issued.

Most of us posting here already know this.

But the CTist will look at the final report and then build a list of unanswered questions based, usually, on initial news reporting. Reasonable people know that most first reports of a dramatic incident are inaccurate. Things people say they saw are usually misperceptions compounded by panic and shock. Reporters will repeat these initial claims verbatim, and in many cases they become CT folklore. And when the "final report" does not address ALL of the incorrect witness claims the CTist will shout, "Cover-Up!". With the internet and social media things have been compounded as lay people review dozens of videos shot by cell phones, and security cameras of varying quality, and we stuck with a Rorschach Test-on-acid as people now see whatever bogeyman that is haunting their psyches (a UAP caused the UPS crash!). So with many "unanswered questions" the CTist builds their case of a cover-up without ever having to prove their version of events.

The result is that because the CT is based on a series of unanswered question it is the definition of a house of cards.

Most of us know that in a large scale event such as 9-11, the Titanic, Challenger, JFK Assassination, or TWA 800 there are lots of moving parts which compounded the investigations. 9-11 was four hijacked 767s crashing into buildings and PA. The Titanic hit an iceberg, and enough crew survived to give a clear picture of events. Challenger was a hell of a lot of work recovering the wreckage, and then reviewing it piece by piece. JFK should have been a simple crime scene, but with three agencies investigating, and other agencies hiding things we got a mess even though the Warren Commission is correct. People still argue TWA 800 to this day.

TWA-800 is the cousin to the MS Estonia CT. The final report on the TWA accident was wires in the center fuel tank. CTist can't make up their minds between a bomb, a Stinger, or a US Navy launched missile. Like with Estonia's bow visor locking mechanism, the center fuel tank is so off-the-wall to lay people that they can't get their head around it. They recovered the bow visor, and now the car ramp from Estonia, and had returned to photograph the wreck to create a high resolution 3D representation of the wreck as it is today. TWA 800's fuselage sat in an NTSB warehouse for over 20 years, used as a teaching tool for new investigators. CTists ignore this part of those stories. Hundreds of experts have walked the TWA wreckage over the years, only one guy claimed he found evidence of explosives (or a missile, I don't care). With Estonia, only one guy claims he saw an unspent explosive charge in video he reviewed, but none of the dozens of other experts saw it. CTists fixate on the lone outlier and their claims while ignoring the army of experts who contribute to the final report's results.

With Vixen, what we're seeing is the house-cards mentality in reverse. For CTists, if even one element is proven inaccurate then the entire investigation must also be wrong, and thus a new investigation must be initiated. So when one of her arguments, like this EPIRB nonsense, is shot down in flames she cannot cede ground because in her world, the CTist world, if one point is wrong, then everything is wrong. We see this in every CT thread here where active believers engage in debate. Wander into the 9-11 board sometime, and look up Tony Szamboti some time. In his case he should know better, but his ego, and world view override common sense (but he was quality debater). The flip-side is whenever new credible information comes forward most us of accept it, and fit it into our perspectives. And with most accidents and events the new information rarely undermines the official report(s), and usually augments the picture.

MS Estonia got it's second investigation. All the new equipment and technologies were used this time. The wreck survey is already out (I've posted it here), and guess what? The ship sank because the bow visor was knocked off, ripping open the car ramp flooding the car deck, and lower decks resulting in the ship capsizing, and sinking. The gash found on the hull was caused by impact with the sea floor, and subsequent grinding as the hull shifted over time. No explosives, no submarines, no Spetznaz.

Jury is still out on the Kraken.
 
And since all AI responses note the source of their “opinion”, what is the source of this assertion.?
I searched for the sentence above and received the AI response. None of the sources “cited” by Google AI support even its assertion above.
Feel free to prove me wrong. All the AI did was agree with your assertion - as they are built to do, more often than not.

You seem to make an assertion to support your CT and then, and only then, search the Internet for something to support your assertion.

Again, what is the source of your assertion? “I read it somewhere” is not a source.
Why did you have to do a new AI search to support your assertion?
I searched Google using Vixen's prompt:
"do cruise vessels swtich off their EPIRBS in dry dock?"
and got the same AI Overview answer:

It cites seven sources:
A Facebook post about testing GMDSS equipment

A marineinsight.com article about how to test an EPIRB

A rya.org.uk article explaining what EPIRBs are

A sartech.com FAQ comparing automatic and manual release EPIRBs

A forbes.com article about why cruise ships give into drydock

A Civil Aviation Directorate of the Republic of Serbia website about disposal of old emergency beacons

and an svb24.com article explaining what EPIRBs are.

None of these sources say anything about removing or deactivating EPIRBs when in dry dock. The AI made that up.
 
If Vixen is off doing Christmas shopping, I have no problem with that. Nobody is obliged to give this forum their attention at the expense of real life. However, if one is taking the time to contribute at all then one's choice of topic is reviewable. Don't tell me you are too busy eating supper and taking saunas to take my questions and then write ten pages of drivel on another subject.
 
Of course, she might be busy scouring section 3.3.2 of the JAIC report for the statement that the Atlantic lock was only added to make people feel safer. Or she may even be looking for the JAIC's statement that the Estonia "floated on its superstructure", or "was functioning on a 90° list". To quote Fats Waller, "one never knows, do one?"
 
They are off if the manual switch is off and the water activated switch is dry, or as posted earlier if they are in their container.

They are only broadcasting if the manual switch is on or the water activated switch is wet.
I guess you mean "They are only broadcasting if the manual switch is on or the water activated switch has become wet."

You said earlier that once wet, they broadcast until the battery is dead. I presume that means that drying the EPIRB doesn't stop the broadcast.
 
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