The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

[LondonJohn]

But it’s nonsense; the buoys are constructed so as to transmit on a specific frequency. But then you know this.

Indeed. The word "tuning" as translated from Finnish simply cannot correspond to the standard English meaning of "tuning" - ie adjusting the frequency of operation of the unit. As you say, the EPIRBs were designed and constructed to transmit on pre-set frequencies which were, by design, impossible to adjust at a standard user level.

 

[LondonJohn]

The MV Estonia had fully compliant hydrostatic-release free float buoys. Please read the following carefully and stop with the persistent denial of established facts.

Estonian emergency buoys were a forgotten tuning The two emergency buoys of the car ferry Estonia did not send a signal to the rescuers because they had not been tuned on board. Emergency buoys burst to the surface properly as the ship sank. Turma's International Commission of Inquiry has investigated the activities of the emergency buoys that drifted off the Estonian coast. The buoys' batteries were fully charged, but they could not send anything untuned, says Commissioner Kari Lehtola. The committee closed the two-day meeting on Friday in Helsinki. The so-called EPIRB emergency buoys had been recently serviced and had been placed in place in accordance with the rules. However, during the installation phase, the activation of the buoys was forgotten: the protective cover must be opened and turned on the coupling head. In Estonia, the activation of the emergency buoy was one of the tasks of the radio electricians, of which there were two on board.

The investigation is still ongoing, but the Commission has consulted the radio electrician on the matter, said Asser Koivisto, the Commission's expert. The purpose of the emergency buoy is to send the location of the sunken ship and to tell the searchers the name of the ship. According to Koivisto's assessment. Helsingin Sanomat

Given the two buoys were certified as having been inspected and tested as having a signal (this means activating it for a short period) just the week before, then either (a) the ship's electrician didn't do his job properly and they were never tuned, or (b) someone deactivated them and (c) this was either via incompetence or vandalism, or given all the other factors coinciding - mid-journey time-wise and distance-wise, having just reached international waters and the explosions/collision/shudders at Swedish midnight, together with the Captain being 'taken out', as it were, or (d) deliberately planned in advance, with the aim of the vessel disappearing underwater with no-one being any the wiser for some period of time.

Please stop sourcing your nonsense from newspapers. Newspapers are frequently wrong, especially in the several "fog of war" days immediately following something like a disaster. None of us care what Helsingin Sanomat has to say - it's not a sufficiently trustworthy source.

 

[zooterkin]

That is how it translates from Finnish.

You wonder why people question your memory, when we had this discussion, about EPIRBs, automatic release and 'tuning', multiple times already, but you cannot remember the outcome. My mother-in-law also keeps forgetting things, but she's got brain damage. What's your excuse?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

The MV Estonia had fully compliant hydrostatic-release free float buoys. Please read the following carefully and stop with the persistent denial of established facts.

Estonian emergency buoys were a forgotten tuning The two emergency buoys of the car ferry Estonia did not send a signal to the rescuers because they had not been tuned on board. Emergency buoys burst to the surface properly as the ship sank. Turma's International Commission of Inquiry has investigated the activities of the emergency buoys that drifted off the Estonian coast. The buoys' batteries were fully charged, but they could not send anything untuned, says Commissioner Kari Lehtola. The committee closed the two-day meeting on Friday in Helsinki. The so-called EPIRB emergency buoys had been recently serviced and had been placed in place in accordance with the rules. However, during the installation phase, the activation of the buoys was forgotten: the protective cover must be opened and turned on the coupling head. In Estonia, the activation of the emergency buoy was one of the tasks of the radio electricians, of which there were two on board.

The investigation is still ongoing, but the Commission has consulted the radio electrician on the matter, said Asser Koivisto, the Commission's expert. The purpose of the emergency buoy is to send the location of the sunken ship and to tell the searchers the name of the ship. According to Koivisto's assessment. Helsingin Sanomat

Given the two buoys were certified as having been inspected and tested as having a signal (this means activating it for a short period) just the week before, then either (a) the ship's electrician didn't do his job properly and they were never tuned, or (b) someone deactivated them and (c) this was either via incompetence or vandalism, or given all the other factors coinciding - mid-journey time-wise and distance-wise, having just reached international waters and the explosions/collision/shudders at Swedish midnight, together with the Captain being 'taken out', as it were, or (d) deliberately planned in advance, with the aim of the vessel disappearing underwater with no-one being any the wiser for some period of time.

This is crap. We have done it to death before. It's not "established facts". It is still crap.

There is no adjustment whatsoever that the "ship's electrician" can perform on the EPIRBs. They are sealed units. The end.

There was no "vandalism" because the EPIRBs were found in prefect working order. That's a dead end too.

You already know all of this is worthless crap. Why are you bothering to spam us with it again?

 

[Mojo]

Indeed. The word "tuning" as translated from Finnish simply cannot correspond to the standard English meaning of "tuning" - ie adjusting the frequency of operation of the unit. As you say, the EPIRBs were designed and constructed to transmit on pre-set frequencies which were, by design, impossible to adjust at a standard user level.

We've been through all this more than once before, I don't see any reason to think that Vixen will understand it this time.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Please stop sourcing your nonsense from newspapers.

Is it actually even the newspapers? Some of Vixen's oft-repeated newspaper quotes are actually lifted from her preferred conspiracy theory website and claim to be quoting newspapers in translation, but that hasn't been verified.

 

[Steve]

We've been through all this more than once before, I don't see any reason to think that Vixen will understand it this time.

Functioning memory is an important part of understanding. When everything is brand new from minute to minute understanding can only be very superficial.

 

[Mojo]

Please stop sourcing your nonsense from newspapers. Newspapers are frequently wrong, especially in the several "fog of war" days immediately following something like a disaster.

She isn't necessarily sourcing it from a newspaper; she has in the past used second-hand sourcing, some of which appeared to have been edited or partially quoted. I notice that Vixen failed to give any citation for this one beyond the name of the newspaper. Does anyone know when it was reported? Or where Vixen got it from?

 

[zooterkin]

She isn't necessarily sourcing it from a newspaper; she has in the past used second-hand sourcing, some of which appeared to have been edited or partially quoted. I notice that Vixen failed to give any citation for this one beyond the name of the newspaper. Does anyone know when it was reported? Or where Vixen got it from?

Really? I'm most perplexed. After all,

I never make anything up. All of my comments are sourced, unless I state 'IMV'.


Estonia Ferry Disaster com

 

[Reformed Offlian]

I'm now picturing a little arm emerging from the release mechanism and switching the EPIRB on.

An accentuating arm? That then gives a thumbs up to let you know it's done?

 

[Vixen]

Is it actually even the newspapers? Some of Vixen's oft-repeated newspaper quotes are actually lifted from her preferred conspiracy theory website and claim to be quoting newspapers in translation, but that hasn't been verified.

I confirm if I cite Helsingin Sanomat then it came from Helsingin Sanomat.

 

[Vixen]

Functioning memory is an important part of understanding. When everything is brand new from minute to minute understanding can only be very superficial.

I confirm my memory is absolutely fine.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I confirm if I cite Helsingin Sanomat then it came from Helsingin Sanomat.

Who did the translation into idiosyncratic English?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I confirm my memory is absolutely fine.

So you remember all the reasons people have told you for why various claims are definitely wrong.

 

[Vixen]

This is crap. We have done it to death before. It's not "established facts". It is still crap.

There is no adjustment whatsoever that the "ship's electrician" can perform on the EPIRBs. They are sealed units. The end.

There was no "vandalism" because the EPIRBs were found in prefect working order. That's a dead end too.

You already know all of this is worthless crap. Why are you bothering to spam us with it again?

• If they were manual EPIRB's they do not need a hydrostatic release mechanism.
• SOLAS regulations say ALL ships must have an automatic float free EPIRB
• Nowhere does JAIC say M/S Estonia was not compliant with regard to EPIRB's.
• We know the EPIRB's on M/V Estonia were compliant with the hydrostatic automatic regulations because there is a clear still of a Rockwater diver holding the Hammar release mechanism.
• A manual one does not need a hydrostatic release mechanism, you simply chuck it in the water.
• A manual one does not need to be fitted on each side of the bridge where it hits the water; it would be within arm's length.
• End of.

 

[Myriad]

• If they were manual EPIRB's they do not need a hydrostatic release mechanism.
• SOLAS regulations say ALL ships must have an automatic float free EPIRB
• Nowhere does JAIC say M/S Estonia was not compliant with regard to EPIRB's..
• We know the EPIRB's on M/V Estonia were complaint with the hydrostatic automatic regulations because there is a clear still of a Rockwater diver holding the Hammar release mechanism.
• A manual one does not need a hydrostatic release mechanism, you simply chuck it in the water.
• A manual one does not need to be fitted on each side of the bridge where it hits the water; it would be within arm's length.
• End of.

I don't need a 100 gallon aquarium filter, but I have one.

 

[JayUtah]

I confirm my memory is absolutely fine.

You keep forgetting to tell us what that paragraph from the Brandenburg report means in your own words.

 

[Vixen]

So you remember all the reasons people have told you for why various claims are definitely wrong.

Yes, it is claimed a Kannad 406F doesn't come with an automatic version but it does. Remember: I stick to facts, not to 'being right'.

Consider the following:

There are four individuals: one individual states the world is round from their own observation, fact-finding and evidence-weighing. Three say the earth is flat. Two of these individuals have never given it much thought and go by what everybody else says. The fourth individual with similar reasoning powers as the first can see that indeed, the earth almost certainly is round but wants to be one of the crowd and fears losing popularity.

Question: which of these individuals would you most closely identify with?

It is simply not possible for me to say I believe something when I do not.

 

[Vixen]

You keep forgetting to tell us what that paragraph from the Brandenburg report means in your own words.

Please can you remind me of what it is.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

• If they were manual EPIRB's they do not need a hydrostatic release mechanism.

Correct. They don't need it. But the manufacturer supplied one model of case for both types.

• SOLAS regulations say ALL ships must have an automatic float free EPIRB

All new EPIRBs had to be automatic. When the ship's existing manual ones reached their expiration date, they would have been replaced with automatic models.

• Nowhere does JAIC say M/S Estonia was not compliant with regard to EPIRB's.

Compliance did not require existing manual EPIRBs to be replaced before their expiration date.

• We know the EPIRB's on M/V Estonia were complaint with the hydrostatic automatic regulations because there is a clear still of a Rockwater diver holding the Hammar release mechanism.
• A manual one does not need a hydrostatic release mechanism, you simply chuck it in the water.
• A manual one does not need to be fitted on each side of the bridge where it hits the water; it would be within arm's length.
• End of.

None of this is materially relevant, and you cannot be unaware of this by now.