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Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part III

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Vixen said:
Many a true word spoken in jest, except torpedoes can be small and likewise limpet mines, not necessarily WWII ones.
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How small?

The lightest torpedoes in service are the various 'lightweight' air dropped and ship launched anti submarine torpedoes, they still have a warehead of 10 - 100 kg of explosives.

Who would attach a 'limpet mine' to a ship at sea in a storm?
 
Vixen said:
Here is the effect of a limpet mine. Doesn't need to blow the whole ship out of the water, as Captain_Swoop claims.


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I don't see that ship sinking.

Who would have attached a limpet mine to a ship at sea in a storm?
 
junkshop said:
I don't recall Captain_Swoop making this claim. Would you care to link to the post where this happened, please?

Maybe you have confused him with another poster, or maybe you misread a post, or misunderstood one.

Maybe you're just lying.
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Refer back to videos of boats being blown out of the water.
 
Vixen said:
All he has to do is calculate the centre of gravity of the boat and work out at which point it becomes unstable (clue: when it is less than zero).
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That's meaningless, but then you don't do science so maybe it's to be expected.
 
junkshop said:
I thought his 'theory' was the one about opening the cardeck en route, and pushing vehicle/s out?

Was he just throwing every ******* crazy idea at the wall to see what would stick? That's a weird way to proceed, if you want anyone to take you seriously.
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If the ramp fell open, don't you think the trucks nearest the ramp - i.e., the ones loaded in at the last minute - would automatically fall out due to the sheer force of the sea? In any case, if Ruotsalainen's suspicion is correct, then there are all sorts of reasons the crew involved might want to get rid of the offending truck. For example, it started smoking or there were toxic fumes. Cobalt was a commonly smuggled substance. Finely divided Cobalt is highly flammable and will ignite spontaneously in air. Cobalt-60 in its radioactive form and as used in fuel rods is extremely toxic to humans. Popular in the day - as per CIA sources - was also Uranium U-238. Or maybe there was a tip-off the Swedish SäPo were waiting for it in Stockholm. Note how all the senior officers mysteriously 'disappeared' after being rescued.

Do you really think Ruotsalainen would be making these representations to the Estonian Riksdag unless he had good ground to?

Even Lehtola wanted to measure the wreck for radioactivity.

Add to the fact Sweden wanted to bury the whole thing...
 
junkshop said:
I thought his 'theory' was the one about opening the cardeck en route, and pushing vehicle/s out?

Was he just throwing every ******* crazy idea at the wall to see what would stick? That's a weird way to proceed, if you want anyone to take you seriously.
Click to expand...

Vixen said:
If the ramp fell open, don't you think the trucks nearest the ramp - i.e., the ones loaded in at the last minute - would automatically fall out due to the sheer force of the sea? In any case, if Ruotsalainen's suspicion is correct, then there are all sorts of reasons the crew involved might want to get rid of the offending truck. For example, it started smoking or there were toxic fumes. Cobalt was a commonly smuggled substance. Finely divided Cobalt is highly flammable and will ignite spontaneously in air. Cobalt-60 in its radioactive form and as used in fuel rods is extremely toxic to humans. Popular in the day - as per CIA sources - was also Uranium U-238. Or maybe there was a tip-off the Swedish SäPo were waiting for it in Stockholm. Note how all the senior officers mysteriously 'disappeared' after being rescued.

Do you really think Ruotsalainen would be making these representations to the Estonian Riksdag unless he had good ground to?

Even Lehtola wanted to measure the wreck for radioactivity.

Add to the fact Sweden wanted to bury the whole thing...
Click to expand...


Whoosh!
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Or any of the hundreds of other windows on the side of the ship?
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The list came after the feelings of bangs and/or a collision. Even Linde said so. Thus, the fact there was a list leading to the capsize and sinking, does not mean it was the root cause of the sinking. In addition, it would take a lot longer than half an hour for all of those reinforced glass portholes to crack enabling seepage of seawater to replace all of the air. In fact, a Russian vessel at Kaliningrad immediately offered to help rescue those who might be trapped inside air bubbles in the wreck, awaiting death or rescue, but strangely, the Swedes wanted no-one but the Swedes at the scene and they were turned down.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
How small?

The lightest torpedoes in service are the various 'lightweight' air dropped and ship launched anti submarine torpedoes, they still have a warehead of 10 - 100 kg of explosives.

Who would attach a 'limpet mine' to a ship at sea in a storm?
Click to expand...

By minisub? Timed device? There are also blank torpedoes that can be fired which can also still cause damage.
 
Vixen said:
If the ramp fell open, don't you think the trucks nearest the ramp - i.e., the ones loaded in at the last minute - would automatically fall out due to the sheer force of the sea? In any case, if Ruotsalainen's suspicion is correct, then there are all sorts of reasons the crew involved might want to get rid of the offending truck. For example, it started smoking or there were toxic fumes. Cobalt was a commonly smuggled substance. Finely divided Cobalt is highly flammable and will ignite spontaneously in air. Cobalt-60 in its radioactive form and as used in fuel rods is extremely toxic to humans. Popular in the day - as per CIA sources - was also Uranium U-238. Or maybe there was a tip-off the Swedish SäPo were waiting for it in Stockholm. Note how all the senior officers mysteriously 'disappeared' after being rescued.

Do you really think Ruotsalainen would be making these representations to the Estonian Riksdag unless he had good ground to?

Even Lehtola wanted to measure the wreck for radioactivity.

Add to the fact Sweden wanted to bury the whole thing...
Click to expand...

So now you are back to the crew opening the bow to dispose of lorries causing the ship to sink?

How did the visor become detached?

Why bother with all the theories about explosives if someone opened the bows?
 
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