I gave a list of some values a parent might hold that would make circumcision beneficial for an infant. I explained that just because you may give these values no weight, that does not make you objective. Your view is as subjective as the person who holds these values.
Since you cannot state that there is objectively no benefit to an infant gained by circumcision, you cannot state that circumcision should be disallowed. These subjective benefits may outweigh any and all costs.
The scientific evidence is that circumcision in infants provides no benefits in excess of the risks, including infection and irreperable damage. Circumcision in adults is far less risky, yet it remains an unpopular procedure.
Failing to understand that he has no claim to objective universal truth, ImaginalDisc pretends to answer:
In your opinion.
A) There is no god, that is a simple matter of fact. There's no leprechaun in my pocket, no dragon in my garage, and no magical sky chieftan. This a simple scientific matter. Even if there is some utterly intangible prime mover, it certainly did not conjure the world 6000 years ago, flood the planet, or any of the other miracles your ancestors naively thought it did.
If you're going to jutify harming children based on god's dictates, the prudent thing to do is establish it exists.
If you have here conceded the point that Jews should be allowed to circumcise their children, then thanks. Otherwise, this is irrelevant.
False and false. I am pointing out that
you cannot take refuge in delusion, since you aren't religious.
And this is exactly what I mean. You are assuming the consequent. A family that circumcises its children must be "hurting" them, in your view, because there is no justification for circumcision; but family unity is the justification for circumcision, so those families are not "hurting" their children. All you have shown is that you are unable to get out of the way of your own subjective prejudices. This is nothing but your opinion, as good as anyone else's.
My opinion of circumcision isn't a subjective prejudice, it's a scientific conclusion. Circumcision has a small risk of death or disbmeberment for compartively little benefit, and the risks are particularly high for infants, the very age group Jews circumcise. In a matter of simple fact, it endangers children.
Don't be silly. There may be many other ways that create family bonding. I'm sure families bond when putting up Christmas lights, for example. Unfortunately, Christmas decoration related deaths are far, far higher than deaths from infant circumcision. So, we'll stick with that.
Would you care to find a source for that?
Once again, it is only "injury" if it is not offset by benefits. Once again, you show that you subjectively do not value the benefits that I have listed. Once again, you assume your conclusion. And, once again, you are wrong.
There can be negatives to honoring the dead but these can be offset by positives.
What positives? You have yet to demonstrate that they exist.
As you are not Jewish, your opinion is at best uninformed.
However, if you would like to dictate how Jews practice their religion, I have several rules that I would like to impose on how Christians practice theirs.
A) Are you seriously suggesting that being circumcised like ancient Hebrews creates more solidarity with Jewish identity than studying the Jewish religion and history?
HA!
If that were true, male Muslims the world over would identify with Jews, rather than often being the most notorious anti-Semites.
B) Feel free to dictate to Christians what they ought to and not to do. I love watching delusional people fight.
Your subjective opinion about the subject is noted. It bears no weight, but it is noted.
I don't pretend to be Spock, but if there is an ounce of subjectivity in my posts, there is a mountain of it in yours. You flagarantly disregard the medical facts about circumcision and instead insert religious arguments for it, from a religion you don't actually believe in. That's practically schizophrenic.
ETA: I'm waiting for you to explain to me why you're insulting Jewish people, and your own family specifically. You're strongly implying that your children cannot be accepted by their own family unless something is done to their genitals. Are your family members really so cold that they wouldn't love your child just the same if they weren't circumcised?
