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The Secret

Sigh, yes, and if this crap about the Secret were oh so true, then I wouldn't need to wish and yearn for science teachers to be properly educated in the sciences before they taught them.

That IS my one wish. But, science education is so expensive, is so involved.

I just don't see an end to this nonsense. I really don't.

So, now what??
 
Skepticism is a form of science. There's no need to make people in non-scientific fields feel less knowledgeable about the universe merely because they don't publish in peer-reviewed journals. In my book, a chef systematically establishing the best combination of flours to reach a desired texture or a child figuring the focal point of a lens (pity the poor ants!) is doing science.

Science is more pervasive and helpful than woo but science as a whole has done a pretty piss-poor job of convincing people of this.
I have some problems with this idea.
I was involved as a parent volunteer (i.e. no real input) to a committee that was setting up a course on science inquiry. The very first exercise was for each student to draw a picture of a scientist. The assumption was that lamost everyone would draw a white male in a lab coat with a microscope. This would give the teacher the change to talk about a) diversity and b) how each and every one of the students WAS a scientist in their daily life and in the classroom. So this idae is definitely out there in the schools.

(I was annoyed by the drawing exercise and suggested that they tell the kids to draw three different scientists so taht the kids themselves might consider different options rather than being made to look closed-minded. But my suggestion wasn't taken.)


We had a topic on this before. IMO while there's some truth to the idea that you act as a scientist when you do certain investigations in the kitchen etc, it's also true that the career of a scientist, and the development of experiments that are statistically valid and controlled and can stand up to peer review and that add to a large established base of knowlegde is NOT what you do in your kitchen or your science class as a 6th grader or 9th grader.

And I think the idea that people with zero science background ARE scientists and able to use their knowledge of the world is part of the problem. Because people's knowledge of the world is very subject to conclusions without controls and improper cause and effect connections and little awareness for how much information there exists and how it crosslinks to form a supported structure.

I am bugged by the way it seems that ifsomeone states an idea no matter how flaky, that seems to give it some claim to validity forever in some people's minds, even if it has been disproved. For instance the idea that plants have consciousness, shown in the lab (by Backster): this information seems to stick even though the measurement was not repeatable and there was and is no basis for taking it seriously. The very fact that someone claimed the idea was true seems to give it a basis in some people's minds. Same with Emoto and his ice crystals.
 
Love your post Flume. You are lucky your school system seems to have a clue!

We could learn a lot from you in how to get kids thinking about real science. It is so true. Cause and effect. Testing out ideas. Seeing if something can be repeated.

These are very basic concepts that go along with critical thinking, and needs to be taught to our children. The kitchen is a great place to start! Chemical reactions, causes and effects!

Thank you Flume!
 
Thanks, Eos, but my post was kind of incoherently written, so I'm not sure if you liked the same things I liked! But I agree with what you have said in all your posts here.
The local school system has in the past had volunteer scientists from the local university, which I think helped. My kids are old enough now that I am out of touch with the schools.
I mentioned Emoto; when I was doing a google search on his stuff, the one skeptical test of his ideas I could find was done in a high school class. I think that would have been a useful demonstration.
Another site I found last night while thinking about this ridiulous Backster stuff was this:
Kansas School Naturalist

I watched The Secret online, and hated the part about thoughts having frequencies. Hated it!
 
I watched The Secret online, and hated the part about thoughts having frequencies. Hated it!

Do you have a link to the online version? I'm feeling kind of masochistic today...

Thoughts have frequencies. Was that in the alpha, beta, delta, and theta brainwave vein; or was it in the "I would like Dean Radin to die in a prolonged horrible death involving lots of glass and razor blades = 23.452 Hz" vein?

Because if it is the latter, I can just turn on a signal generator at the right frequency and crank it up to 500 kW and have a machine do the work.

Would that be attempted murder, cranking out 23.452 Hz at 500 kilowatts?

Radin better get a tin foil hat to protect himself. I'm gunning for you, you entangled rat bastard!
 
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Eeek! Luke is promoting dark energy and killer mind frequencies! Where is my tin foil helmut! Auuughghg!

*runs around in circles*

Ohhh, I should sell these nutters/customers some quantum ear muff thingies that help the universe receive their thoughts and demands more readily over their "enemy's" wishes.

Hm. What to call them, what to call them?
 
Luke, when I watched it, although I didn't realize it, it was an illegal (not sure illegal is the right word) link to a for-pay site, and the link was later blocked. I've seen another one recently posted and I don't know if it's illegal or not. If I find it I'll post or PM it if it seems okay.
 
Luke, when I watched it, although I didn't realize it, it was an illegal (not sure illegal is the right word) link to a for-pay site, and the link was later blocked. I've seen another one recently posted and I don't know if it's illegal or not. If I find it I'll post or PM it if it seems okay.

Okay. Thanks!
 
Ohhh, I should sell these nutters/customers some quantum ear muff thingies that help the universe receive their thoughts and demands more readily over their "enemy's" wishes.

Hm. What to call them, what to call them?

Entanglers.

Qadar, or if that is too subtle for them, Q-Radar.

The Secretions.
 
IMO while there's some truth to the idea that you act as a scientist when you do certain investigations in the kitchen etc, it's also true that the career of a scientist, and the development of experiments that are statistically valid and controlled and can stand up to peer review and that add to a large established base of knowlegde is NOT what you do in your kitchen or your science class as a 6th grader or 9th grader.

And I think the idea that people with zero science background ARE scientists and able to use their knowledge of the world is part of the problem. Because people's knowledge of the world is very subject to conclusions without controls and improper cause and effect connections and little awareness for how much information there exists and how it crosslinks to form a supported structure.

I am bugged by the way it seems that ifsomeone states an idea no matter how flaky, that seems to give it some claim to validity forever in some people's minds, even if it has been disproved. For instance the idea that plants have consciousness, shown in the lab (by Backster): this information seems to stick even though the measurement was not repeatable and there was and is no basis for taking it seriously. The very fact that someone claimed the idea was true seems to give it a basis in some people's minds. Same with Emoto and his ice crystals.

flume, you snipped the part of my post where I stated that, in my opinion, any systematic fact determined by the scientific method is science. That doesn't make someone who does this on an occassional basis a scientist. (Hell, there are some scientists I've met who don't even do that occassionally!) Also, the scientific method precludes any woo from surviving systematic, unbiased testing.

I really don't think you and I are in much disagreement. But, even if we are, it's only my opinion. (I state that humbly even if I can never be wrong! :D )
 
Ask anybody who's wealthy and successful how they got that way, and they'll tell you it was nearly all hard graft
Yes, the vast majority of rich people I know got there through graft. Also corruption, malfeasance, and plain old theft.

:D
 
And I used to respect Oprah. I had no idea she was such a woo. I have not only lost respect for her, I have nothing but contempt for her now.

Well, Luke T if it makes you feel better I never watched Oprah. The one time I did was when she was talking about human poop and how it's supposed to look. So what happens when I even just hear the name Oprah? You guessed it, I associate the name with crap.
 
Now I don't mind the Universe remaking all of reality and time just to give me a good day, even if the ripple-effect from this affects the lives of thousands of people. Cool. One problem, though; isn't everyone else's reality being manipulated in the same way, and don't those competing realities clash?

Yes - it seems to me if you use the "secret" you're playing sort of a half-assed god role and the universe is finishing it for you however it wishes. Hell, if you're going to be able to control so many people in the morning so that rush hour traffic won't exist and you can therefore make it on time to work, that's pretty extraordinary! I hope the reason those people were missing from rush hour wasn't because I made the universe make their car break down, or their child sick, or a good 'ol morning heart attack! Wow, that'd be pretty negative!!
 
I'm tempted to ask: What if two people who both know "the secret" decide they want to be the richest person in the world? I suspect we might have to bring the multiverse theory into this one so everyone can get what they want.
 
Hm. What to call them, what to call them?

How about:

"Quantum Burrito Field Muffs"?

Seriously, they're aimed at the sort of people whose eyes start glazing over in rapturous ignorance the second the word "quantum" is used.

You could probably call them "Quantum I'm a big dummy with too much money and too little critical thinking skills muffs", and people would jump on them. You can even imagine the typical transaction:

"Ohhh...shiny display. Wonder what's on it? Quantum - mumble mumble mumble. Sweet! And only $854.99? Universe, you've pulled through for me again!"
 
What if two people who both know "the secret" decide they want to be the richest person in the world?

That was one of my first thoughts, too. Also, what would happen if one person who knows "the secret" decides that they want to be successful, and a second person who knows the secret decides that they want the first person to be poor?

There's only one way to solve a problem like that:

Quantum Deathmatch!
 
Yep. If you believe it, you can make it happen! Control the world around you, control others, with your MIND!

If you want it, you can make it happen!

Oprah loves this. Are we ready for this "science"? I mean, the "what the bleep" movie was just the tip of the iceberg. This "science" will now change the world! The secret is OUT!!
http://www.amorc.org.uk/html/not_scientific_.html
*gnashes teeth"
There is no secret, they are an extension of the Golden Dawn transferred through A. Crowley to Israel Regardie, it is European ceremonial magic with an overlay of John Dee and Enochian. The goal is the perfection of the self through the realization of the "True Will" as embodied through the knowledge of the "Holy Guardian Angel".

But who knows what trash they would reveal. those who are truely interested should read Magick in Theory and Practice by Crowley. then investigate the Golden Dawn, the writings of Elivas Levi and Regadie, and then investigate the OTO and the AMORC.

I would personaly avoid anything by Dion Fortune.
 

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