The Second Amendment and the "Right" to Bear Arms

They are not part of the developed world. This criterion has been explained several times now.
"Developed world", apparently, being defined as all countries with a lower homicide rate than the USA?

There's no standard, agreed upon definition for "developed world", which means you're still cherry picking.
 
So 17-20% were killed by firearms and grenades yet the murderers nonetheless had "nothing more than machetes"?
Take it as a victory if you'd like. The point still stands - had both sides been equally armed with firearms the death toll would have been far lower.
 
"Developed world", apparently, being defined as all countries with a lower homicide rate than the USA?

You seem to be expanding "developed world" to specifically include countries with higher rates.

There's no standard, agreed upon definition for "developed world", which means you're still cherry picking.

Sure there is. It may be unknown to you but that's hardly conclusive proof.
 
Way to dodge the question! At any rate, it seems that even if you refuse to admit it you acknowledge that sociological factors are far more influential than availability of guns when it comes to homicide rates.


.......

Is having guns easily available for criminals, nuts, angry people and youths a sociological issue?

If guns were far harder for that group to access, it would not matter what the social issues are, they cannot get hold of a gun.
 
Take it as a victory if you'd like. The point still stands - had both sides been equally armed with firearms the death toll would have been far lower.

In your opinion. Why would both side having guns not resulted in a civil war where just as many were killed?
 
Way to dodge the question! At any rate, it seems that even if you refuse to admit it you acknowledge that sociological factors are far more influential than availability of guns when it comes to homicide rates.
Yet, ironically, you seem incapable of acknowledging that Rwanda was about a lot more than the presence or absence of firearms.

The overwhelming majority were killed by machetes and other weapons such as clubs and spears, not guns and grenades. Only 17-20% were killed by firearms and grenades.
Presumably now that you've seen that machetes accounted for a shade over half of the fatalities, you're now moving the goalposts to include "clubs and spears"? And it isn't "17-20%... killed by firearms and grenades" but a firm 20.2%.
 
At a far lower rate than the UK.

You really need to get into the habit of posting evidence.

Didn't we discover the burglary rates are actually higher in the US? I think we did.
U.S. 2009 burglary rate: 716.3 per 100,000

U.K. 2009 burglary rate: 523 per 100,000. Link

And it certainly seems like the UK assault rate is higher (by around one-third) because of a difference in the way assaults are classified.
 
Why didn't you include Lithuania? Belarus? Estonia? Ukraine? Moldova? Or by far the largest European country, Russia?

Cherry picked data is cherry picked.

Did you bother to check any evidence before you posted the above?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

4 - USA, 9369 homicides with firearms
13 - Ukraine, 173
30 - Belarus, 30
36 - Estonia, 21
37 - Moldova, 20
38 - Lithuania, 16

As a reference Germany came 11th with 269. I cannot find the equivalent for Russia, which only partially lies in Europe in any case.
 
Who ever said Americans have difficulty understanding anything outside of their own frame of reference...?

Given that we're discussing firearms in the US why wouldn't we use US frames of reference in comparison to other frames of reference? Would you rather we compare things with Brazil or something?
 
At a far lower rate than the UK.
In the other thread Tolls showed that "violent crime" was about 55% higher, although that may be on a wider definition used in the UK (amongst other factors). The jury seems to be out as to whether burglary is higher in the UK than the US, or vice versa, to a point where we can probably call it even. All that is balanced against the US having a homicide rate three times that of the UK. The bottom line is that you can't claim that wider access to firearms directly results in a claimed lower assault and burglary rates, yet also maintain that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the much higher homicide rate. Why - in your world - are criminals supposedly detered from assault or burglary, but not homicide?
 
Did you bother to check any evidence before you posted the above?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

4 - USA, 9369 homicides with firearms
13 - Ukraine, 173
30 - Belarus, 30
36 - Estonia, 21
37 - Moldova, 20
38 - Lithuania, 16

As a reference Germany came 11th with 269. I cannot find the equivalent for Russia, which only partially lies in Europe in any case.
:confused:

Is it less of a murder if some other weapon is used? You only care about murders if they're done with something that goes "bang"?
 

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