Cont: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine (2)

[GrandMasterFox]

Have you read her Wikipedia page? It pretty much answers all questions.

I thought you were being sarcastic, but I guess not.
Yeah, I had no idea about her other positions.

That does answer things.

If she's Putin's mistress and she supports it, she's a gangster's moll. Frankly I don't really care whether she is a true believer or someone putting on a front. It amounts to the same.

It actually isn't the same at all. People who willingly help with the propaganda and know it's a lie are more likely to turn over if they think their interest will serve better elsewhere.

Meanwhile fanatic true followers are likely to die for the cause no matter what.

 

[trustbutverify]

I thought you were being sarcastic, but I guess not.
Yeah, I had no idea about her other positions.

That does answer things.



It actually isn't the same at all. People who willingly help with the propaganda and know it's a lie are more likely to turn over if they think their interest will serve better elsewhere.

Meanwhile fanatic true followers are likely to die for the cause no matter what.

Yup. No sarcasm intended.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Time for Russia to restock, refuel, rearm and regroup, I rather suspect.

It wasn't a normal ceasefire, it was a couple of hours of not shelling a part of the city so civilians could evacuate safely.

During which they kept shelling anyway.

 

[Aridas]

To carry over a previous post a little...

Did anyone really think the Russians would keep their side of this deal?

I think that many of us had a glimmer of hope, but lacked trust. I put it in the "it would be nice if it turned out to be true" category, myself.

What good will that do them if there's no one to exchange it with? Maybe they can come up with a way to eat it when the food starts running out.

I find myself rather untrusting towards any accounts that Russia actually has built up a large reserve of gold. Especially after the rampant corruption that's been displayed when it comes to the military. That's the kind of corruption that permeates the entire system and such bodes very ill for the rest.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

It depends on what you call Ukraine, and on what the Ukrainian borders should be.

I believe Ukraine should renonce Russian-speaking Crimea and the two Russian-speaking republics of Donbass, and should have done it a long time ago to prevent this war.

Making these political concessions could perhaps still save many lives.

The borders of Ukraine aren't really in doubt, with the possible exception of the Crimea. Donbass is certainly part of Ukraine and the speaking of Russian there is not a guide to whether a person who lives there feels Ukrainian or Russian. The Soviets tried to suppress the Ukrainian language and make everyone speak Russian. They also settled lots of Russians there and drove lots of Ukrainians out to other parts of the Soviet Union following the persecution of the Kulaks and devastation of the Holodomor.

So, no, the issue is not the location of Ukraine's borders. It's Putin's belief that Ukraine is historically part of "all the Russias" and rightly belongs to him.

 

[shemp]

Joe Biden is a Nazi.

Note: Link does not work because of forum autocensor. If you click, replace "********" with well-known term for cow feces.

Russian State TV Just Blew Up Putin’s ‘Nazi Ukraine’ ********

Confusion reigns on Russia’s state TV, as panicked lawmakers and pundits try to explain to the public why their country invaded Ukraine and now faces crushing Western sanctions. And in the process of zealous propagandists striving to justify the unfathomable, they’ve inadvertently revealed too much.

Two days earlier, on a state TV show 60 Minutes, journalist Andrei Sidorchik rode the concept all the way down the hill when he exclaimed: “Joe Biden is a Nazi. The U.S. congressmen⁠—Democrat and Republican⁠—are Nazis... German chancellor is a Nazi... EU leaders are Nazis... because their sanctions are attempting to preserve neo-Nazism in Ukraine.”

Why, they make Hitler look like Karl Marx!

Link that should work

https://t.co/hdOLHKD0iC

(twitter has its own shortened URLs - so I used that)

Posted By: jimbob

 

[Jack by the hedge]

To carry over a previous post a little...

I think that many of us had a glimmer of hope, but lacked trust. I put it in the "it would be nice if it turned out to be true" category, myself.

Yes, I thought the Russians actually intended a ceasefire as it helps them. Time to sort out their resupply and for Ukrainian civilians to evacuate so they don't have to worry so much about harming non-combatants. (I'm not suggesting Putin gives a damn about that, but I presume ordinary Russian soldiers doing the actual fighting have no wish to kill Ukrainian civilians.)

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

It depends on what you call Ukraine, and on what the Ukrainian borders should be.

I believe Ukraine should renonce Russian-speaking Crimea and the two Russian-speaking republics of Donbass, and should have done it a long time ago to prevent this war.

Making these political concessions could perhaps still save many lives.

I believe Britain should have torn up that "scrap of paper" that got us into WWI when Germany entered Belgium. Making that political concession would have probably kept the British Empire intact.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

I think Putin's game plan is to try to get NATO troops fighting Russian troops to feed the narrative he is presenting to the Russian people and he doesn't really give a toss about Ukraine.

NATO is not falling for this and will instead arm the Ukrainians to the teeth and crush the Russian economy so Putin's own people remove him.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I believe Britain should have torn up that "scrap of paper" that got us into WWI when Germany entered Belgium. Making that political concession would have probably kept the British Empire intact.

That would be a fascinating alt-hist.

What's happening now is more like Britain invading the Republic of Ireland and the BBC broadcasting propaganda explaining that Ireland is historically part of the UK and British troops are being welcomed as liberators for saving Ireland from the EU.

 

[carlosy]

Joe Biden is a Nazi.

Note: Link does not work because of forum autocensor. If you click, replace "********" with well-known term for cow feces.

There are no sanctions against russia. There are just some special financial operations going on. Just for peace keeping...

 

[Darat]

I think Putin's game plan is to try to get NATO troops fighting Russian troops to feed the narrative he is presenting to the Russian people and he doesn't really give a toss about Ukraine.
NATO is not falling for this and will instead arm the Ukrainians to the teeth and crush the Russian economy so Putin's own people remove him.

I disagree - I think he has been an absolute ruler for so long he's in the endgame stage. Everything he sees and hears is tailored to appease him, what he says and thinks is reflected back to him by his inner circle. He probably did believe that the Ukrainians would be on the streets with flowers to give to their liberators.

 

[Oystein]

...
I find myself rather untrusting towards any accounts that Russia actually has built up a large reserve of gold. Especially after the rampant corruption that's been displayed when it comes to the military. That's the kind of corruption that permeates the entire system and such bodes very ill for the rest.

I certainly am very far from being an expert on the economics of gold reserves, but anyway, here is my hunch: the value of a rare commodity such as gold, and especially gold, depends on at least the main actors understanding how much there is of it total, who has it, and whether and when new supplies are being discovered and exploited. This knowledge has great importance for many state, corporate and private actors, and so I would guess the global flow of gold is closely monitored and analyzed constantly. Sure, there would be incentives to confuse competitors, but you could not fool all of them all of the time.

 

[Steve]

I see the BBC website has the following headline to an article:

"Putin says he has no intention of declaring martial law in Russia"

So martial law in Russia will begin in, what, maybe 48 hours?

 

[Scorpion]

The Russian media are lying to their people, and you can get 14 years in prison in Russia for criticizing the war. In contrast a British newspaper headline yesterday said of Putin.
' Who will rid the world of this ranting madman?'
Also a Russian businessman has offered a million dollars to anyone who will kill him, and a British MP has called upon the Russians to assassinate him.

 

[dudalb]

So if NATO provides a no fly zone, it's responsible for starting a nuclear war, and if they don't it's guilty of sacrificing Ukraine for the sake of politics.

I hope someone's paying you to type this drivel.

Jihad Jane has been around for a while. She basically hates the West.

 

[dudalb]

I disagree - I think he has been an absolute ruler for so long he's in the endgame stage. Everything he sees and hears is tailored to appease him, what he says and thinks is reflected back to him by his inner circle. He probably did believe that the Ukrainians would be on the streets with flowers to give to their liberators.

For years Putin has been open hsi ultimate goal is to restore the old Soviet Union (which is pretty much the same as the old Imperial Russian Empire ) . People though he was not serious. He apparently was serious.
Same thing happened with Hitler. People blew off his goals in Mein Kapft as so much hot air; turned out he was deadly serious.

 

[dudalb]

I see the BBC website has the following headline to an article:

"Putin says he has no intention of declaring martial law in Russia"

So martial law in Russia will begin in, what, maybe 48 hours?

Any Putin or his government says should be regarded as a lie until proven otherwise.

 

[dudalb]

Biden needs to announce a Oil Embargo agianst Russia now. He is going to have to do it anyway.
Frankly, I would support a total embargo on any American COmany doing business in Russia (throw in Belarus).All measures short of actual military conflict.

 

[jimbob]

Biden needs to announce a Oil Embargo agianst Russia now. He is going to have to do it anyway.
Frankly, I would support a total embargo on any American COmany doing business in Russia (throw in Belarus).All measures short of actual military conflict.

Indeed.

An oil embargo probably would be mostly symbolic, but the rest.

And I can easily imagine, say Coca Cola (to take one company that said it will continue to trade in Russia) could lose more money from a boycott of its brands than they'd get from a single country in economic meltdown.