Darat said:
(Edited to add.) Of course I agree that I can’t get a PC the size and feature set of the Mac Mini (although I saw a project in which someone fitted a PC into a Mac Mini case).
So you do agree that if the small size of the Mac Mini is a consideration then there
is at least one logical reason to buy a Mac?
Windows XP (now) has a good out of the box firewall that is also available as a free upgrade to all existing (legitimate) Windows XP users, I still had to download Firefox for my Mac mini because I don’t like Safari, had to pay for and download a virus scanner (OK it may be a remote chance but I don’t want to be caught out by the first major virus to hit the Mac).
I have a magic rock that repels dragons to sell you, too. Dragons don't exist of course, but if you pay me for it now and you get attacked by a dragon later I promise I will upgrade the rock.
(Jokes aside, that was a waste of money. Although there is no known Mac malware in the wild, theoretical exploits have been developed occasionally in the past and generally patches have been developed in a matter of days by Apple enthusiasts or Apple itself).
And again I disagree, for example my Mac Mini cost including delivery £759 (1 GB RAM, 80 GB DRIVE, CD-RW/DVD±RW, Bluetooth + Airport-Z, 56k V.92 Modem) no keyboard, no mouse, no monitor. A much more powerful, with many more features "out of the box" Shuttle based small form "Media Centre" PC would have cost me around the same.
If you can post a link, and it indeed has everything the Mac Mini has with a similar size and more features besides, I will admit you are right. Since you admitted earlier you couldn't find such a machine I don't think I am in immediate danger though.
You get it for free because buying a MAC means you have no (for any "normal" member of the general public) choice but to run an Apple OS. (They do itemise it on the invoice.) Most Windows users will also have got their copy of Windows "free" in exactly the same way.
As long as you include both OSs in any number crunching I am happy. That was the point I was making.
What you get "free" from Apple can vary; most pre-installed Windows PCs that most people will purchase will also come with a "free" bundled range of software.
As long as it is factored in, that's just fine.
If you want Word on a Mac I think you'll find you do need to pay! Most people will not pay for their copy of Windows anymore then a Mac purchaser pays for OSX.
The point is you don't need Word, because the Apple comes with a word processor (that talks to Word and can export to .pdf) anyway.
When someone is an authority then the apparent accusation that I am committing a fallacy by appealing to it is incorrect.
It is not strictly incorrect. It is, however, not nearly as conducive to intelligent discussion as evidence and it turns any discussion into a genital-measuring exercise to boot. It also looks kind of bad if you then follow up with some numbers that just don't add up.
I would suggest a comparison of say Dell’s site and Apple’s site demonstrates the cost advantage is in favour of current “Wintel†PCs.
Cheapest off the shelf Mac:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APP...b5JmS1ZJAVxHE/0.0.11.1.0.6.23.1.3.1.1.0.0.1.0
Cost: $799.00
Cheapest Off the shelf Dell (speced up to include Antivirus software, MS Works, 80Gb HD, Combo Drive, speakers) :
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/featured_dp_desktop1_1?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
Cost $666 (after $100 dollar mail in rebate)
From what I can tell the Dell has no graphics card, no Firewire (IEEE 1394), no equivalent to Mail, iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie HD, iDVD or GarageBand, can't play DVDs and has a 90-day warranty instead of a one-year warranty. By reputation Dell uses the cheapest parts available, and Apple uses good ones.
Not quite a 1:1 comparison since the Dell package has a LCD screen, the eMac is an all-in one box and so on but I think a good comparison.
Not quite indeed. If you added a software package with Outlook, Word and Excel (to match Mail and Appleworks), CD/DVD burning software to match the Mac software, a CDRW/DVD drive and an equivalent warranty you'd be paying another $280. In other words you would be paying $150 more that you would have done for an eMac, in order to get cheaper parts, less software (still), more security vulnerabilities, no graphics acceleration and a 3.5" floppy drive. You are also using Windows rather than OS10.4, which is a distinct negative in my mind, but needs and tastes differ.
Do you see what I mean? Whenever I see someone claiming that an equivalent Wintel box is clearly a better buy, it always turns out that it is only clearly a better buy if it is not equivalent, and if you bring it up to equivalency it is no longer clearly a better buy.
Granted if you don't want or need those Mac features then you can save money by getting a Dell. If you do want those features though, well, I guess you could say that there is a logical reason to get an Apple box.
Hardware expansion: several models of the Mac allow no user expansion, e.g .the Mac Mini, a few offer very little e.g. eMac / iMac.
A legitimate point, but it is a capability some (many?) people never use.
Software availability: The Windows platform has the largest catalogue of commercial, shareware and freeware software. (Do you want me to try and provide some evidence for that statement?)
No, and if you need a particular application or game that does not exist for the Mac then you should not get a Mac. However for plenty of people there is ample Mac software to fulfil all their needs. For those people, it might just be logical to get a Mac if it has other features they want.
Is it clear to you yet that your claim that there is no logical reason to get a Mac was drastically overstated? No one machine is best for everyone, but if you want the Mac feature set you can't beat the Mac price. Prove otherwise if you can.
(If you can't, I would like you to get me a job like yours advising multimillion dollar companies. I might be overqualified though, because I can do this trick where I read a list of features and compare them. We'll keep quiet about that in the interviews).
