Merged The Roy Moore Batcrap Crazy Remark Thread/Roy Moore Is Done

[BobTheCoward]

Moore is an idiot and a perv, but this is the most bizarre analogy I've ever seen -- free people freely choosing to do something vs. a god damned slave?!?!?

What.
The.
Hell.



Being fwee is dangewus and vewy scawy, huh? Gobberment should end it for our own good!


Freedom is slavery!


You are free...to do as we tell you! You are free...to do as we tell you!

It is quite an impressive jump to take a statement about power dynamics as somehow an endorsement of intervention. As a matter of fact, I have a history of being completely accepting of mismatched power dynamics being outside the realm of the state.

 

[Meadmaker]

One must also consider state laws vary. A 30 yr old with a 17 or younger is considered statutory rape in some states. Does that make a difference?

If something is illegal in one state, but you do the same thing in a different state, you aren't breaking the law.

Even back when I was 30, or 32, there's no way I would have "dated" a 16 year old, even if we stuck to the literal, as opposed to euphemistic, meaning of the word, but I have a hard time getting all outraged about it. There are lots of sexual activities that some people really enjoy that I have no intention of ever doing. I just can't find it in myself to get up in arms about them. If you think it is outrageous that people have sex with sixteen year olds, lobby for a law making it illegal to have sex with sixteen year olds.

If not, meh. I find it creepy. I suppose most people do.

Also let's not leave out the fact Moore picked up this 14 yr old in the courthouse he worked in. That is unethical on its face. And he met her a block from her house, he didn't go to the door. That is pretty good evidence he knew better.

The 14 year old is a separate case. I was only addressing the characterization of those over the age of consent as "victims". Of what?

Just out of curiosity Meadmaker, if we went back to the old Bill Clinton threads, would we find you condemning Bill Clinton for his unethical consensual sex with a 23 yr old Monica?

No. I might have said something like "tacky", or maybe even "creepy", but no. Personal business.

Now, there were other allegations that were far more serious, because they involved non-consensual activities, but those were allegations. Substantiate them, and I would condemn Bill Clinton.

Remember the House of Representatives intern scandal? Gerry Studds and Dan Crane discovered to be boinking teenage interns. I shrugged my shoulders. No law against it. Studds got reelected. Crane, who was my congressman at the time, was defeated. Like Moore, Crane was a big "family values" guy. (That was the buzzword at the time.) The hypocrisy was what did him in.

 

[BStrong]

If something is illegal in one state, but you do the same thing in a different state, you aren't breaking the law.

Even back when I was 30, or 32, there's no way I would have "dated" a 16 year old, even if we stuck to the literal, as opposed to euphemistic, meaning of the word, but I have a hard time getting all outraged about it. There are lots of sexual activities that some people really enjoy that I have no intention of ever doing. I just can't find it in myself to get up in arms about them. If you think it is outrageous that people have sex with sixteen year olds, lobby for a law making it illegal to have sex with sixteen year olds.

If not, meh. I find it creepy. I suppose most people do.



The 14 year old is a separate case. I was only addressing the characterization of those over the age of consent as "victims". Of what?



No. I might have said something like "tacky", or maybe even "creepy", but no. Personal business.

Now, there were other allegations that were far more serious, because they involved non-consensual activities, but those were allegations. Substantiate them, and I would condemn Bill Clinton.

Remember the House of Representatives intern scandal? Gerry Studds and Dan Crane discovered to be boinking teenage interns. I shrugged my shoulders. No law against it. Studds got reelected. Crane, who was my congressman at the time, was defeated. Like Moore, Crane was a big "family values" guy. (That was the buzzword at the time.) The hypocrisy was what did him in.

That's not quite correct.

The Mann Act:

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88104308

 

[Meadmaker]

If I had had a history of vandalising property and throwing eggs at people's houses, then it seeing me buy four dozen eggs would be suspicious.
[/INDENT]

The fact that he had dates with 16 and 17 year olds does, in my mind, lend credibility to the allegations that he committed lewd acts with a 14 year old, but they are still allegations.

By the way, I heard Moore himself being interviewed on Sean Hannity today, and in my not very humble opinion, the dude was lying like a rug. He didn't really remember if he dated any 16 year old girls, but he was sure he had their parents' permission. That sort of thing. I am strongly inclined to believe the woman who claims to have been 14 when he fondled her, just because he was so obviously lying about everything else in the interview.

 

[Craig4]

Moore might be the millstone Democrats can hang around Republican necks next fall. Maybe a few more will resign instead of risking the association with Moore and themselves. Before Dems get all indignant, they should appreciate the gift they're being given.

 

[Sideroxylon]

I find it odd that people think it's not okay if it's perfectly consensual and legal. Why is it that some "liberals" come off as just as terrible moralists as Roy Moore?



No <snip> Did you bother reading the post article? The age of consent in Alabama is (and was) 16. Only one of the girls was under that age when he asked them out.



I'm also sure they would be. Doesn't matter if it's perfectly legal and consensual.

Edited by Loss Leader: 

Edited for Rule 0/12

I find it odd that you cannot understand that adult to 14 year-old relations cannot be fully consensual.

 

[Arcade22]

This strengthens the credibility of the former 14yo's account, and that is IMO the main reason the WaPo reported on these incidents.

I'm pretty sure the people at the Washington Post knew exactly what they were doing. They are not stupid, they are some of the best journalists and writers in the world.

Mentioning that he was dating teenagers wasn't objectionable by itself rather it was the way it was done. It wasn't solely to corroborate that he had been dating people at the same time, it was also about playing on the public taboo found, especially throughout the US, of age-differences in relationships especially if they happen to be with teenagers. Trying to vilify people by playing on their homosexuality in places where homophobia is common is just as terrible.

Considering the kind of unhinged people wanting his head crushed under train-wheels or some other form of senseless violence enacted upon i think they were very successful.

 

[Sideroxylon]

I'm pretty sure the people at the Washington Post knew exactly what they were doing. They are not stupid, they are some of the best journalists and writers in the world.

Mentioning that he was dating teenagers wasn't objectionable by itself rather it was the way it was done. It wasn't solely to corroborate that he had been dating people at the same time, it was also about playing on the public taboo found, especially throughout the US, of age-differences in relationships especially if they happen to be with teenagers.

Considering the kind of unhinged people wanting his head crushed under train-wheels or some other form of senseless violence enacted upon i think they succeed in vilifying him very effectively.

How convenient, cherry pick the extreme reactions to Moore and paint him as a persecuted soul. **** off with that ****. This ******** should be in no position of public power.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Moore might be the millstone Democrats can hang around Republican necks next fall. Maybe a few more will resign instead of risking the association with Moore and themselves. Before Dems get all indignant, they should appreciate the gift they're being given.

I think we have to be careful in what we wish for. I can remember thinking that the election of a Gohmert or King was just wonderful because it made the Crazy Wing of the GOP that much more visible. The problem is that it gives us another seat for the GOP, or two more, or even the White House.

The good thing is that this is a tight timeframe. This story will not die in thirty days. Republicans faced with a Hobson's choice may opt to stay home. I don't want Moore as another millstone (they've got Trump and Jefferson The Traitor Elf and Pence and Betsy and Rex and Clarke and Arpaio and Cruz and all those other reprehensible *****).

It's time for a good old-fashioned dirty mud-slinging campaign. Run ads in local papers challenging the religious right to live up to their supposed morality.....

Radio Ad:

Southern belle voice: Darrell, we can go to the Tompkins' barbecue after all, I found a babysitter to watch the girls.
Good old boy: That's great, sugar! Who's helpin' out?
Southern belle: Judge Roy
(sound of jug of sun tea breaking)

 

[Stacko]

Republican Party slogan, 1860: "The Union must and shall be preserved!"

Republican Party slogan, 2017: "The Proper Term is Hebephile Not Pedophile!"​

 

[BobTheCoward]

What is the ratio of 30 year olds that date teenagers that you would consider well put together.

Anyone who says ,"she is mature for her age" probably isn't mature for their age.

 

[Meadmaker]

Radio Ad:

Southern belle voice: Darrell, we can go to the Tompkins' barbecue after all, I found a babysitter to watch the girls.
Good old boy: That's great, sugar! Who's helpin' out?
Southern belle: Judge Roy
(sound of jug of sun tea breaking)

 

[Minoosh]

My grandfather and grandmother were something like 29 and 16 when they were courting - my grandmother had my mother at 17, about a month shy of her 18th birthday. And my grandfather was from Alabama. A lay minister. Not a powerful man, but probably more powerful than her.

I remember when a schoolteacher (male) ran off with a 14-year-old student my grandmother said they were married in the eyes of the Lord and people should leave him alone. However, she also believed that you were married in the eyes of the Lord to the first person you had sex with, and everything after that was adultery.

Something I'm curious about with Moore - did he just want to get into their pants or did he see himself as pursuing their hands in marriage?

There are so many things I dislike about this man that his attraction to 16-year-olds would not be *the* deal-breaker, but the 14-year-old is another story. I can't unsee in my imagination the image of him in his tighty whities trying to get her to feel his boner. To me, it's more pathetic than creepy, and good for her for asserting herself.

 

[trustbutverify]

After they forgave Trump for his pussy grabbing comments i think the people of Alabama would be perfectly fine with this.

Whadya mean "forgave him"? They loved him for it. All of these so called "traditional values" Trump's cheerleaders prattle on about is all a bunch of ********* they use to attack the weak and anyone they consider enemies.

 

[trustbutverify]

I see it like this: the hardcore base will vote for him still because they hate Liberals winning more than their guy being a degenerate. Another faction of Republicans will continue to say they endorse him leaving him with high poll numbers.

But on election day the latter may just stay home in the way that many Republicans did in Virginia and in that case if the Democrats can just turn out the vote they could win even though polls will predict otherwise.

What makes you think they hate their guy being a degenerate at all?

 

[Sideroxylon]

Whadya mean "forgave him"? They loved him for it. All of these so called "traditional values" Trump's cheerleaders prattle on about is all a bunch of ********* they use to attack the weak and anyone they consider enemies.

That is a fair interpretation given the hypocrisy seen repeatedly.

 

[Travis]

I find it odd that people think it's not okay if it's perfectly consensual and legal. Why is it that some "liberals" come off as just as terrible moralists as Roy Moore?



No <snip> Did you bother reading the post article? The age of consent in Alabama is (and was) 16. Only one of the girls was under that age when he asked them out.



I'm also sure they would be. Doesn't matter if it's perfectly legal and consensual.

Edited by Loss Leader: 

Edited for Rule 0/12

I don't care if it was legal. I'm of the mind that teenagers can bang each other all they want. Someone twice their age getting in on the action? No. I don't approve.

 

[Oystein]

I'm pretty sure the people at the Washington Post knew exactly what they were doing. They are not stupid, they are some of the best journalists and writers in the world.

Mentioning that he was dating teenagers wasn't objectionable by itself rather it was the way it was done. It wasn't solely to corroborate that he had been dating people at the same time, it was also about playing on the public taboo found, especially throughout the US, of age-differences in relationships especially if they happen to be with teenagers. Trying to vilify people by playing on their homosexuality in places where homophobia is common is just as terrible.

Considering the kind of unhinged people wanting his head crushed under train-wheels or some other form of senseless violence enacted upon i think they were very successful.

If that's how you read the WaPo article, well who am I to second-guess your perception. It feels slightly unhinged though. Doesn't the WaPo itself point out that the other three relationships weren't illegal? That Moore didn't force or coerce them to anything? That no sex took place?

It is rather obvious in my opinion that the WaPo brings up the other teenagers mainly as an argument that strengthens the serious allegation of Statuatory Rape of a 14yo by establishing the veracity of a pattern of conduct by Moore at the time.

Where you see motives beyond that, they are on you.

 

[phiwum]

Republican Party slogan, 1860: "The Union must and shall be preserved!"

Republican Party slogan, 2017: "The Proper Term is Hebephile Not Pedophile!"​

They try to show respect and dignity to a despised minority and you still slag them off? No winning, is there?

 

[jimbob]

David Horowitz‏
@horowitz39
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In my view Moore is guilty as accused. But 1) it happened 30 years ago, & 2) he can't be removed from the ballot, & 3) electing a Dem strengthens a party that defends these criminals: Obama, the Clintons, Holder, Lynch, Abedin, Cheryl Mills etc. &their crimes are far far worse

What are the crimes of Obama, the Clintons, Holder, Lynch, Abedin, Cheryl Mills etc.?

Apart from being Obama being Kenyan and thus ineligible to be president. And Clinton being a transvsetite murderer? And Holder being guilty of running the DoJ whilst black?

Anyone who still supports the current GOP* is a deplorable.


*Unless it is a candidate who has denounced these and has also shown by their votes or action that they condemn them.