"The Republicans’ war on science and reason"

So London should pay for Londons problems? Okay, good point. But the real question I was asking why remove the controls that prevent this from happening in any other city on any other scale?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog

4,000 people reported dead at the time. 12,000 by conservative estimates after modern research.

Wow. 4,000 people dead, but it's okay because more of them will be able to sue?

100,000 people suffering illness related to respiratory problems, but it's okay as they might be able to sue?

No amount of money from a courtcase would ever replace a loved one. Or be a worthy pay out for their breathing problems and diminished quality of life.

This was 1952 folks, the good old days of freedom folks. This is not a straw man exageration, this is not an excluded middle, this is a real possibility of what might happen if there is no regulation controling the airborn toxins generated by industry.

This is the reality that Robert wants to be created in the name of profit, in modern America.
 
bikerdruid said:
people seem to forget that.
we live on a little planet.
we are unable to throw anything away.
it is all still here.
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Along those lines...

...always worth another read:

http://planetary.org/explore/topics/voyager/pale_blue_dot.html

In part:

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot
 
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Robert Prey said:
Where I lived, Westwood, the 2 pm ocean breeze was automatic. You could practically set your watch by it.
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Of course, Westwood, west L.A. in general and Santa Monica are quite close to the ocean. Neither the cooling effect nor cleansing effect of the sea breezes penetrates very far inland. They also don't make into the San Fernando and San Gabriel valleys, which I'm sure you must have noticed every time you went over the Moraga Pass. So, these sea breezes did very little to reduce smog.

On the other hand, catalytic converters, mandated smog checks, controls on particulates in exhaust and banning leaded gasoline have helped a great deal.
 
TimCallahan said:
On the other hand, catalytic converters, mandated smog checks, controls on particulates in exhaust and banning leaded gasoline have helped a great deal.
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Yeah, but it took away our freedom.
5pDtQ.jpg
 
bikerdruid said:
leftyseargent
Dude, there is no such place as "away."
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people seem to forget that.
we live on a little planet.
we are unable to throw anything away.
it is all still here.
Click to expand...
While we have some differences we can agree that failure to take care of the environment is monumentally stupid. Perhaps defecating on your front porch is better than in your front room but not much. There is a cost. Sadly the people who will likely bear the brunt of that cost are our children or even our children's children just so some reach people can have a few more billions dollars each.
 
One great environmental impact is the sheer number of humans. I believe I've mentioned taking trips through southern Utah, where the air is (or at least was, before St. George turned into a boom-town) extremely pure and clear. Anyone with any knowledge of science or even just of the material world we live in realizes that the earth's carrying capacity is finite. Thus, low population areas, like southern Utah are less impacted, even in the absence of environmental controls, than are areas of high population density.

Thus, the links that some of the Republican contenders - namely, Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum - have with the dominionist Quiverfull Movement count as attacks on science and reason. For those not familiar with this name, it comes from Psalms 127:3 - 5:

Lo, sons are a heritage from the LORD,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the sons of one's youth.
Happy is the man who has
his quiver full of them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks to his enemies in the gate.

The Quiverfull movement urges Christian families to keep popping out children as long as the woman's womb lasts. In one case, after a woman had to have her 18th. child by emergency caesarian section and the doctors strongly urged her not to get pregnant again, her friends in the movement told her it was her duty to have child #19. The idea of this movement seems to be to grow a dominionist army. Quiverfull families commonly have 12 o 20 children.

This is part of the general fundamentalist contempt for environmental concerns. It apparently includes contempt for mathematics as well. While, to my knowledge Gingrich, Romney, Paul and Huntsman are not tied to either dominionism or the Quiverfull movement, Paul would abolish the EPA, while the others would apparently put environmental concerns on the back burner.
 
Newtons Bit said:
In a system of high competition, the factory owners all make the same return regardless of whether or not there are pollution controls. The costs are all passed directly on to the consumers.
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So the market for all factory goods is perfectly inelastic ?

Thanks for posting on a topic where you couldn't hope to pass a 101 course ? Welcome to my ignore list.
 
It is the Dems who are at war with science -- political science.

It is they who live in a fantasy world and refuse to accept reality.

Furthermore, by pointing to the worst cases of Republicans they are attempting to divert attention to their own failures.
 
leftysergeant said:
It doesn't build infrastructure fast enough, nor put as many people back to work.
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And the programs Obama threw billions at did?

I think NASA does put people back to work. I think technology NASA brings does build infrastructure better than anything else.

I have heard that for every dollar spent on NASA, socieity gets two dollors worth of benefits.

And the technology lasts forever.

It is the lefties who are at war with reason and science. There might be a number of wack-jobs on the right, but as a whole and as a policy, it is the left-wingers who are out of touch with reality and living in a fantasy world that history and logic and facts oppose.
 
bikerdruid said:
some liberals are, but only the farrrrrr left ones.;)
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I like how you make statements that you only wish were true as if putting them on the internet is like waving a magic wand and this will change reality.

I like how after you read something you do not like you sometimes respond with just one word (like "NOT") without elaborating or backing up what you want to believe. You support my beliefs without intending to do so.
 
Bill Thompson said:
I like how you make statements that you only wish were true as if putting them on the internet is like waving a magic wand and this will change reality.

I like how after you read something you do not like you sometimes respond with just one word (like "NOT") without elaborating or backing up what you want to believe. You support my beliefs without intending to do so.
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gee, bill....i'm delighted that you like how i do stuff.
it shows real progress.

heck, we'll have you singing commie songs and chanting, "workers of the world unite," in no time.
 
bikerdruid said:
gee, bill....i'm delighted that you like how i do stuff.
it shows real progress.

heck, we'll have you singing commie songs and chanting, "workers of the world unite," in no time.
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"The working class and the employing class have NOTHING in common!"

Go on, Bill; You know you want to.

;)
 

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