Whilst I have no intention or desire to start any debate, I would like to address some of the points raised in the explanation post that was created in the 'Announcements' forum.
On 2009-08-03 12:49, Steve Brooks wrote:
Skeptics? What are you talking about Steve? Aren't skeptics the people who challenge everything from ghost hunters to psychic's and the paranormal?
Why on earth would you create a forum for skeptics on a magicians website?
That's a good question. I mean, what the heck was I thinking?
This is an unfair and inaccurate definition of what a skeptic is. It would be analogous to me claiming that every religious person is a fundamentalist extremist intent on killing all of those who oppose his or her beliefs. It is not fair to let the actions of a minority tarnish the reputation of the majority.
There is a strong link between skepticism and magic, and whether people like them or not, there are many very well known magicians who could be considered "skeptical activists" - James Randi, Banachek, Jamy Ian Swiss, Penn and Teller, Derren Brown, Richard Wiseman, to name a few. Indeed, it could be argued that there is a stronger link between magic and skepticism than there is between magic and other topics such as religion, but I digress.
On 2009-08-03 12:49, Steve Brooks wrote:
Well, put simply, it is my own personal belief that many skeptics are under the impression that the mentalists may be attempting to fool the general lay audience into thinking that what they do on stage involves real pyshic powers and may be a bit more than entertainment. I don't know, but that seems to be the root issue.
In this, you are correct, but I can assure you that it is not an issue with mentalism as an art. When performed well, I find mentalism to be one of the most fascinating and entertaining branches of magic. However the skeptics you refer to are not under any "impression". The fact is that there
are mentalists on this forum who choose to sell themselves as psychic, and who have admitted that they would rather have the audience think they are using psychic or "paranormal" abilities as opposed to using conjuring techniques. It could be argued that these people have no place on a magic forum either.
On 2009-08-03 12:49, Steve Brooks wrote:
Not all the folks who spent time there were trouble makers but many of them just could not behave like adults. I wish only the best for them and hopefully they will slowly wander back to the skeptic websites where there must be an army of folks who deal with the drama everyday.
I agree. I had the pleasure of conversing both publicly and privately with many intelligent and well spoken members who spent significant time there, and I can't deny that I will miss the regular, more moderate conversations. However I don't think it is fair to only blame the "skeptics" for the downfall of this forum.
I was under the impression that 'Stand The Test' was launched for the magicians who were also interested in the field of science and skepticism. Whilst I'm sure they existed, I was not aware of any "non-magicians" participating in discussions in 'Pennies'. For some unknown reason though, the regular visitors to 'Stand The Test' were not afforded the same courtesy as those in the religious themed sub-forums. I firmly believe that were I to start visiting the gospel section and posting about atheism, I would be quickly shown the door. Can I prove my theory? No. Why not? Because I'm generally a polite and friendly person, and I have an enormous amount of respect my fellow magicians. I have no desire to argue with people who are minding their own business, regardless of whether I agree with their beliefs/ideas or not.
For some reason, the obvious cause of most of the problem seems to have been ignored, and that is a few select members who have a belief in paranormal phenomenon insisted on regularly visiting 'Stand The Test', where they began to continually post what can only be described as a skeptic hate campaign. We were constantly bombarded with demands for proof about the most ridiculous concepts and ideas, and respected members of the skeptical community were viciously attacked on an almost daily basis. Callous smear campaigns were mounted against people for merely having a different opinion. On a more personal note, I found myself being researched by a Café member in another country, who then threatened to turn up at my workplace when he visited my home town. This member recently admitted to sending his friends to my workplace with information about me whilst he was in town. Fortunately it was my night off, but this apparently didn't stop them from asking my colleagues for further information.
In addition to these issues, many of us became increasingly concerned that Café moderators had become active and biased participants in the conversation. This resulted in a blatant and undeniable favoritism regarding which posts were kept, and which were deleted. Many of us had completely rational and polite posts that disappeared, whilst insults from the "other side" were permitted to remain. Furthermore, the staff members went as far as to begin hurling insults themselves. Consider this, posted by a Café staff member about a regular visitor to The Magic Café.
When you want to hide what you have said from being linked to your name you expose what a petty, gutless person you are.
Naturally, the comment was deleted promptly. But when you consider the threats I mentioned that I received earlier in this post, is it any wonder that members wish to keep their identities private?
Please don't think that I am blaming only one group for the downfall of this forum. I am well aware that members of the skeptical community (myself included) posted things that, in hindsight, we probably shouldn't have. However it shouldn't go unnoticed that up until recently, a certain level of peace had returned to the forum, and it had become a pleasant place to visit. Whilst the debate remained, it was relatively polite and calm. The return of a certain particularly outspoken member from a month long ban well and truly seemed to mark the beginning of the end for 'Stand The Test'. I think it is spectacularly unfair to blame one side for the downfall, and I am not the only member here who has theorized that certain members were posting controversial material in a deliberate effort to get the 'Stand The Test' forum shut down.
This message is not an attempt to reverse the decision made by the Café management, as I believe they have probably made the right one. However as a frequent visitor to 'Stand The Test', I felt that I was well within my rights to reply to a couple of points that I believe were not entirely fair. The Magic Café is a wonderful resource for magicians, and no doubt a tiresome but rewarding project for it's staff. I visit every day and enjoy reading and participating in the discussions here, and I will continue to do so in the future. And whilst I don't claim to speak for everyone, on behalf of a few of the skeptical members of the Café, I thought it only fair that I express some of our shared thoughts and opinions.
All the best,
Chris Higgins
Melbourne, Australia
