The Phoenix Lights... We Are Not Alone

Unlike you, I grew up on military bases and even got caught trying to steal a parachute of a flare that drifted off course into my neighborhood at Ft. Bragg. Hammond Hills 1977. So you see I have a hell of alot more experience with flares than you are willing to give me credit for. It took the military MONTHS!! to come up with the flare explanation, long after the event. YOU are the one refusing to accept the actual evidence. Theres a book out I can find for you filled with thousands of witnesses who swear they weren't flares. So shut the **** up with the insults because I can run circles around you with my knowledge of flares.
 
Heres a video that has witnesses including a physician who wrote a book full of witnesses who will swear they weren't flares and a professional photographer who has debunked many ufo pics and videos, but declares there is no way these are flares.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC5vrZBb8zk
 
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Hindmost said:
I was too lazy to see if this was posted before...if it was, I appologize.

Anyhow, someone confessed..

http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/080423-bad-phoenix-lights.html

glenn
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Yes you have posted this several times. The problem is your post concerns a hoax that occured in April 2008 and is not of any concern about the Phoenix lights event of March 1997. Now that I've acknowledged your pure ignorance , will you quit posting the proven, admitted hoax of April 2008.
 
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chuck4842 said:
Heres a video that has witnesses including a physician who wrote a book full of witnesses who will swear they weren't flares and a professional photographer who has debunked many ufo pics and videos, but declares there is no way these are flares.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC5vrZBb8zk
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Astro says I can't provide eyewitneses. I've given the Governor who was also a pilot, the video above contains two professional photographers, a physician, a photography science lab called Village something. AND I'M THE ONE WHO DOESN'T LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE!:mad::confused::mad::confused::eye-poppi:eek::mad:
 
chuck4842 said:
Yes you have posted this several times. The problem is your post concerns a hoax that occured in April 2008 and is not of any concern about the Phoenix lights event of March 1997. Now that I've acknowledged your pure ignorance , will you quit posting the proven, admitted hoax of April 2008.
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Actually, I have not posted that before...ever.

What I have posted many times in the past--and believers like you never even answer or address this issue--is: how do the aliens actually get here to earth? The energy requirements to get to the nearest star would fill up a hollow earth. (unless they have antimatter...but it would still have to be manufactured--and that always comes up against law one and law two) Why would the our alien friends spend all that energy...just to come here and flash a few lights in the sky and leave? Does that really make sense? I would think they would at least want to gas up before leaving.

Please don't tell me about undiscovered energy sources...nothing is going to trump matter-antimatter reactions.

glenn

PS: my ignorance is never pure...it's always contaminated.
 
chuck4842 said:
Heres a video that has witnesses including a physician who wrote a book full of witnesses who will swear they weren't flares and a professional photographer who has debunked many ufo pics and videos, but declares there is no way these are flares.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC5vrZBb8zk
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Any numerical analysis?

You can keep on waving your hands about governors and kids who have seen flares but people are mistaken all the time.

I gather that you have not looked at Bruce Maccabee's Report On Phoenix Light Arrays at:
http://brumac.8k.com/phoenixlights4.html

Conclusion

The preceding analysis shows that, at the very least, the triangulation data suggest flares at high altitude and great distance. These cannot be ruled out as likely sources for the lights unless there are some very convincing data of some other sort not available to this author. In fact, the most parsimonious explanation for these lights is that they were flares (as so stated for the March 13, 1997 lights by the Maryland National Guard). This analysis is therefore consistent with that of the Cognitech Corporation (Dr. Leonid Rudin) done for the Discovery Channel documentary (November, 1997). It is also consistent with the analysis of Dr. Paul Scowen, professor of astronomy at ASU, as reported by author Tony Ortega in the Phoenix "New Times" newspaper, March 5-11, 1998, which showed that the lights were farther away than the mountain peaks in the K video. In that newspaper article the author also reported that an "Arizona National Guard public information officer, Captain Eileen Benz, had determined that the flares had been dropped at 10 P.M. over the North Tac Range 30 miles southwest of Phoenix at an unusually high altitude of 15,000 ft." Except for the stated distance, which should be more like 60 miles
up to 100 miles away) this statement is consistent with the analysis presented here.
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So how is Maccabee wrong?
 
Getting The Story Straight

I just want to be clear on the Phoenix Lights incident. To my understanding it was two seperate incidents reported by the people of Phoenix on the same night. One incident was a formation of planes and the other was flares being dropped by a military plane. Is that right? Does anyone know of any books, articles, documentaries or videos that explore this incident skeptically? Thanks! :)
 
chuck4842 said:
Astro says I can't provide eyewitneses. I've given the Governor who was also a pilot, the video above contains two professional photographers, a physician, a photography science lab called Village something. AND I'M THE ONE WHO DOESN'T LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE
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Feel free to take a chill pill anytime.

1) The governor did not make his announcement of being a witness until many years had passed. When he was governor, he treated it like it was a joke. Do you really think he is being honest at this point? We do not even have any specifics about his sighting that night. Where was he? What was the time he saw them? Feel free to provide this information because I can not find it anywhere. My guess is the governor was probably attending a function that night and was not even outside. However, that is just a guess.

2) The physician is NOT a professional photographer and, if I recall correctly, is Dr Lynne Kitei, who wrote a book about.....Surprise...the phoenix lights. She then began promoting a film on the exact same subject. What is not revealed is that she asked Dr. Maccabee, a UFO expert, to look at her videos and he concluded they were simply flares. It did not stop her from selling a book and film on the subject. Are her motives less than honest? You tell me. BTW, she is witness "L" in the Maccabee analysis.

3) The last one is village labs Jim Dillettoso, who was exposed as a fraud numerous times. He is also not a professional photographer but does have some fancy computers in an office, which is called "Village labs". You can read all about him at:

http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/azvideo.htm

Dillettoso is not a scientist and, as best I can tell, has no real formal training in conducting the type of analyses he claims to be doing. Astronomers considered him a joke the instant they saw what he claimed he was doing with the videos. So do not present him as an expert. BTW, he is not a witness.

You still have not demonstrated the videos are not flares. I have told you where you can view the triangulations done by Dr. Maccabee that shows they were flares. You can also watch the Discovery channel show about the videos. Cognitech analyzed them and they were consistent with flares behind the mountains.
 
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chuck4842 said:
Unlike you, I grew up on military bases and even got caught trying to steal a parachute of a flare that drifted off course into my neighborhood at Ft. Bragg. Hammond Hills 1977. So you see I have a hell of alot more experience with flares than you are willing to give me credit for. It took the military MONTHS!! to come up with the flare explanation, long after the event. YOU are the one refusing to accept the actual evidence. Theres a book out I can find for you filled with thousands of witnesses who swear they weren't flares. So shut the **** up with the insults because I can run circles around you with my knowledge of flares.
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Your knowledge seems to be very limited if it is all based on trying to steal a flare's parachute. I spent over twenty years in the US Navy and saw several exercises from a distance that involved illumination flares of this kind in the navy and as an amateur astronomer. What is your experience seeing such flares from a distance of about 50 miles? Can you provide documentation of your "expertise" in viewing flares from 50 miles? Can you show me a video of illumination flares from a distance of 50 miles that looks significantly different than those shot at 10PM on March 13, 1997 from Phoenix?

BTW, can you demonstrate the Maryland ANG was not flying over the Barry Goldwater range that night at 10PM? If you can then you can demonstrate the USAF is lying. If you can not, then the explanation is valid. We have pilots stating they dropped the flares and they were there. Is this too hard to understand? The explanation took months because nobody bothered to look in the right place. Additionally, Richard Motzer of MUFON was stating the videos were probably flares as early as April of 1997. For that, MUFON investigators referred to him as a debunker (which is the equivalent of a slur in UFOlogy).

Unless you can demonstrate that any analysis done showing they were flares is faulty or that the pilots of the maryland ANG did not perform this operation, you really have no case. However, I am still willing to listen. Tick....tock.....We all are waiting.
 
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Josh111485 said:
I just want to be clear on the Phoenix Lights incident. To my understanding it was two seperate incidents reported by the people of Phoenix on the same night. One incident was a formation of planes and the other was flares being dropped by a military plane. Is that right? Does anyone know of any books, articles, documentaries or videos that explore this incident skeptically? Thanks! :)
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Very good, you have the facts correct. Feel free to look at my webpage on the matter:

http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/AZUFO.htm

Most of the stuff you find on the internet is spun towards the ETH point of view. No matter how many ways you demonstrate that the 10 PM event was due to military illumination flares, people will still contend they were not.
 
Astrophotographer said:
Very good, you have the facts correct. Feel free to look at my webpage on the matter:

http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/AZUFO.htm

Most of the stuff you find on the internet is spun towards the ETH point of view. No matter how many ways you demonstrate that the 10 PM event was due to military illumination flares, people will still contend they were not.
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Right on astro. People dont understand that when a man like Mcgaha even confirms theyre flares with his experience in the air force, they put their fingers in their ears
 
Patricio Elicer said:
This video may help illustrate the case. Enough to put the contrversy to rest?
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Hmmmmm......I doubt that it will to at least one poster here. You might as well talk about evolution to somebody who believes strongly in creationism. No matter what logic, no matter what the evidence, no matter how solid the argument is, you can not convince somebody who believes so much that they choose not to listen.
 
OK I'm admitting your evidence is better than mine that they were flares. Is it true the pilot that dropped them is dead now? Don't freak on me astro, I'm just wondering, and asking you because I've read this on that dr girls website.
 
chuck4842 said:
OK I'm admitting your evidence is better than mine that they were flares. Is it true the pilot that dropped them is dead now? Don't freak on me astro, I'm just wondering, and asking you because I've read this on that dr girls website.
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I have no idea. It was not just one pilot but several. All were part of the Maryland ANG. Perhaps you can look it up. In the clip shown, we see Lt. Col. David Tanaka. I did a quick google search and found that now Col. Tanaka was alive in 2008:

http://www.southcom.mil/AppsSC/news.php?storyId=983

Things could have changed since then but I don't think so since I probably would have found an obituary. I did find him in a list of promotions as well so I think his death would be documented somewhere. Now, Tanaka may not have been one of the pilots who actually dropped the flares but he was part of the ANG. Feel free to provide a name that we can check on otherwise.
 
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