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The Parapsychological Experimenter Effect

Limbo said:
That's partly why I said it's a bit trickier, lol.

It takes training and education to master the techniques. Hence the mystical core at the heart of a mythos is comprised of an elite few. Although sometimes such experiences can happen spontaneously to non-initiates with no mystical training or education. The experiences are psychological in nature.
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Meaningless drivel.
And all experiences are psychological in nature.
 
Jeff Corey said:
Meaningless drivel.
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Why do I feel like that cute little doggy that is your avatar would love to bite my face off, lol. ;)

It's not meaningless drivel if one is interested in the evolution, development, structure of mythology and hence religions throughout the ages. If *you* aren't interested in that, then to *you* such studies are meaningless. This is your opinion, which may be an uninformed one, which you seem to be parading as absolute fact? That doesn't make it meaningless in-and-of itself.

"In my hasty opinion it's meaningless drivel."

Fixed.
 
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Limbo said:
Why do I feel like that cute little doggy that is your avatar would love to bite my face off, lol.

It's not meaningless drivel if one is interested in the evolution, development, structure of mythology and hence religions throughout the ages...
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What you stated was meaningless drivel, bereft of any factual basis. You might want to start your education here.http://www.bilderberg.org/frazer.jpg
 
Being informed on a topic involves reading a lot of big books, in toto. You better start soon.
 
Well I guess I have to guess.

Maybe you think I'm advocating some sort of a literalistic, "supernatural" interpretation of mythology and religion, and you think such an approach is in conflict with Frazers approach and tone in The Golden Bough...am I close? You feel that The Golden Bough and I are in utterly incompatible and opposite corners?
 
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Jeff, why don't you volunteer your definitions of religion, mysticism, and mythology. I'm curious to see them.
 
Limbo said:
That's partly why I said it's a bit trickier, lol.

It takes training and education to master the techniques. Hence the mystical core at the heart of a mythos is comprised of an elite few. Although sometimes such experiences can happen spontaneously to non-initiates with no mystical training or education. The experiences are psychological in nature.
Click to expand...

Wow, this runs counter to evrything I have learned from a lifetime of practice.

There is no elite, too much of the Secret Masters here.

get this, the rain falls on the just and unjust alike.
 
Limbo said:
Why do I feel like that cute little doggy that is your avatar would love to bite my face off, lol. ;)

It's not meaningless drivel if one is interested in the evolution, development, structure of mythology and hence religions throughout the ages. If *you* aren't interested in that, then to *you* such studies are meaningless. This is your opinion, which may be an uninformed one, which you seem to be parading as absolute fact? That doesn't make it meaningless in-and-of itself.

"In my hasty opinion it's meaningless drivel."

Fixed.
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It is till drivel, and I am someone who has studied those things, it has popous egoic thinking at the center of it.

there are no secrets "to all will I teach that which is yet unknown for I am the spirit of nature which gives life to the universe..."
 
Wow, this runs counter to evrything I have learned from a lifetime of practice.
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What does? That mystical techniques (such as meditation) take training, practice, and education?

Or that there is mysticism at the heart of mythology and religion?

Or that mystical experiences can happen spontaneously?

Or that mystical experiences are psychological (as opposed to "supernatural", or to made-up lies of evil, manipulative frauds)
 
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Limbo said:
Well I guess I have to guess.

Maybe you think I'm advocating some sort of a literalistic, "supernatural" interpretation of mythology and religion, and you think such an approach is in conflict with Frazers approach and tone in The Golden Bough...am I close? You feel that The Golden Bough and I are in utterly incompatible and opposite corners?
Click to expand...

Mythology is not the construction of a heroic elite, it has more to do with urban myths than literature. We have preservation issues of oral traditions as well, and the blatant destruction by certain groups.

Mysticism, spirituality and part and parcel of the human experience pre 1945, if fact in most of human history they are group efforts that involve communities, no elite there. There is a distinction to be drawn between petty cheiftans, priests shamans and it has a lot to do with economics.

There is no heroic elite driving the mythos.

And Golden Bough kind of an interesting mish mosh, some documented some not sot.
 
Limbo said:
What does? That mystical techniques (such as meditation) take training, practice, and education?

Or that there is mysticism at the heart of mythology and religion?

Or that mystical experiences can happen spontaneously?

Or that mystical experiences are psychological (as opposed to "supernatural", or made-up lies of evil, manipulative frauds)
Click to expand...


This right here
"Hence the mystical core at the heart of a mythos is comprised of an elite few. "
 
Dancing David,

I can only guess at the associations to certain words I use that you are making in your head. You seem to think I'm saying, "Hey! Listen up! The ancient myth-makers and mystics were a "heroic elite" that you need to bow down to!"

I used the word heroic once...in reference to the hero deeds in mythology. Hercules, for instance. Jason. The Knights of the Round Table. etc.

By elite, I don't mean to suggest superiority and authority over you or anyone. Quit being so defensive, all right?
 
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Dancing David said:
This right here
"Hence the mystical core at the heart of a mythos is comprised of an elite few. "
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"Elite (also spelled Élite) is taken originally from the Latin, eligere, "to elect". In sociology as in general usage, the élite is a relatively small dominant group within a large society, which enjoys a privileged status envied by individuals of lower social status."

Dancing David,

Surely you aren't saying that at the heart of mythologies and religions there is no sort of "small dominant group." A priesthood, a tribal shaman, etc.

Surely you aren't saying there was no social hierarchy of some sort in ancient mythologies. And surely you aren't saying that these small dominant groups did not practice a system of mysticism. And surely you aren't saying that such groups didn't incorporate their mystical experiences into their respective mythologies.

Are you?

If you are NOT saying these things, then may I suggest that you are over-reacting to things I've said in a rather hasty, defensive, and emotional manner.

If you ARE saying these things, then I have to scratch my head and wonder where the heck you are coming from.


Note I'm trying not to make a value judgment as to whether these groups, mythologies, religions, mystical experiences, etc are "right" or "wrong" or "true" or "false" here, or whether the authority these groups had in their society was just, or right, or moral, or corrupt.
 
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Jeff,

I'm waiting for your responses to posts # 246 and 247.
 
From the Devil's Dictionary, by Ambrose Bierce:
MYTHOLOGY, n.
The body of a primitive people's beliefs concerning its origin, early history, heroes, deities and so forth, as distinguished from the true accounts which it invents later.
RELIGION, n.
A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable.
 
And mysticism? What's your definition of that and how does it fit into mythology and religion in your view.
 
mys·ti·cism (mst-szm)
n.
1.
a. Immediate consciousness of the transcendent or ultimate reality or God.
b. The experience of such communion as described by mystics.
2. A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience.
3. Vague, groundless speculation.
I prefer 3.
 
Ok thanks for demonstrating the scope of your thought in these matters.
 
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