Merged The One - Australian TV

Please provide evidence of a psychic successfully finding a missing person (other than the psychic saying so). Where has a police department announced the successful closing of a case based on a psychic's help?

Robert.

My evidence takes the form of a fascinating lady by the name of Allison DuBois, upon whose exploits the TV show 'Medium' is based. And I don't care what crap you've read, she is in fact genuine.

EDITED TO ADD: This quote from the Wikipedia entry on Allison DuBois:

Dr. Gary Schwartz, a tenured professor, Harvard Ph.D., and Director of The VERITAS Research Project at the University of Arizona's Human Energy Systems Lab, says that DuBois has psychic abilities, arguing in the March 6, 2005 TV Guide, "Anyone who's looked closely at the evidence can't help but come to the conclusion that there is something very real going on here." At their first meeting, Schwartz says DuBois accurately described a friend of Schwartz's who had just died. Impressed, Schwartz conducted a series of experiments, including one in which DuBois stated she contacted the late husband of a woman in England, knowing only the woman's name. The woman, after reading a transcript of the session, affirmed that 80% of what DuBois said was accurate. Schwartz published his research in a book titled The Truth About Medium.
 
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My evidence takes the form of a fascinating lady by the name of Allison DuBois, upon whose exploits the TV show 'Medium' is based. And I don't care what crap you've read, she is in fact genuine.


Also from wikipedia:

Her powers as a medium were tested by Gary Schwartz of University of Arizona, giving rise to much controversy...

Ray Hyman questions the scientific integrity of Schwartz's approach to such psychic phenomena, in papers written for the organization...

DuBois, when doing her first reading of Schwartz, told him that his deceased friend was telling her, "I don't walk alone," which Schwartz understood to be a reference to his friend's confinement to a wheelchair, which DuBois could not have known about. [James] Randi says that Schwartz leapt to an unsupportable conclusion, since the notion of "not walking alone" can mean any number of things, and "certainly does not describe being in a wheelchair." Randi also asserts that experiments that allegedly yield positive results of psychic powers, such as the ones done with DuBois, are not conducted using proper scientific controls.


And in terms of helping police:

DuBois says she uses this ability to connect deceased loved ones to the living, and also to help law enforcement agencies solve crimes, such as the Texas Rangers and the Glendale, Arizona police department, and that she used these abilities as a jury consultant. These law enforcement agencies have since denied any such cooperation happened...

Former FBI profiler, behavioral science expert and MSNBC analyst Clint Van Zandt challenges DuBois's statements about helping law enforcement and putting people on death row, arguing, "If psychics were truly successful and if their results were not simply the consequence of trickery (at worse [sic]) or good interviewing skills (at best), then why don't law enforcement agencies have psychic detective squads, a real X-Files Unit, or other ways to integrate these paranormal investigative capabilities?"

There is also a five part expose on Allison Dubois available on the web. Google "The Dubious Claims of Allison Dubois".

But, as you said, you are not interested in the negative "crap" about Allison, so I doubt you'll read it.

Nevertheless, Allison is the only one saying she helped police. The police deny it. A conspiracy, perhaps?

Robert.
 
Well, she's certainly playing all the "classy" venues. I haven't seen Melbourne Arts Centre on her tour schedule, but have no doubt that it will be added any day now.

Chris

She's doing my local RSL, at 40 bucks a ticket with special guest Stacy Demarco. The funny thing is, the poster spells her name incorrectly. Ezio is also appearing but at the bargain price of 35 bucks. I will likely go see Charmaine, for research purposes and blog it. Watch this space.
 
Parahella-idiot or whatever you are...you better shut up.

I'm freaking fuming.

Don't turn up here and think you know everything and start accusing Richard. You want to talk facts? Huh? I can tell you right now that you my friend are extremely one eyed and need to get your facts straight before you decide to look through your one-lens binocular.

People like you disgust me. Look at both sides, think about it logically and most of all, don't you dare start coming onto this thread and saying anything negative about Randi or Richard.

I also noticed that you have completely ignored the logical and correct information that AndyD has given to you. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

You are hypocritical, moronic, pathetic, mentally weak and completely lop sided. I hope that you continue believing and waste all of your money on the false and hollow rubbish involved with psychic readings.

Alex.
 
Correction: Impossible/unreasonable skeptics don't get a good run, for obvious reasons.

And your opinion about the very reasonabe Richard Saunders is?

Part of me wants to believe you've experienced at least some small paradigm shift, but reading this thread has crushed any such hope. You're as bad as Randi.

Let me get this straight, Richard was right there on the set watching every single bit of the action and all you saw was an edited made-for-television version, and you think you can tell him something?

I'm willing to admit that the show wasn't done well...

It was just a bit of fun.
... and it even failed at that

but accusing the producers of slanting things in the psychics' favour is going a bit far.

Let me get this straight, Richard was right there on the set watching every single bit of the action and all you saw was an edited made-for-television version, and you think you can tell him something?

What bugs me, Richard, is that in the end you, like Randi, ignored the hits and focussed exclusively on the misses.

You have that completely ass over tit.
It's: "remembering the hits and forgetting the misses".
They showed all the hits and left most of the misses on the cutting room floor. Even then they struggled.

No wonder Stacey Demarco started yelling; the poor woman must have been at the end of her rope with you.

The really ignorant often have that problem with the wise and knowledgable. They can't even see they are wrong when it's staring them in the face. If you were impressed with this show, you'd probably be impressed with Alison Dubois and Gary Schwarz.

Oh wait.....
 
My evidence takes the form of a fascinating lady by the name of Allison DuBois, upon whose exploits the TV show 'Medium' is based. And I don't care what crap you've read, she is in fact genuine.


Alison Bubois and Gary Schwartz??? :D

Don't force me to post my favourite laughing horse pics. Like this one:

funny-animals-01-laughing-horse%5B1%5D.jpg


They've been so thoroughly debunked it's not worth it anymore.
 
Sorry, I struggle to be as reasonable as Richard Saunders when I meet unreasonble people like PX
 
Sorry, I struggle to be as reasonable as Richard Saunders when I meet unreasonble people like PX
I was thinking, and I don't usually post this, troll. Or someone who know little about scientific research.

What makes me think this?
The Wiki quote.

Dr. Gary Schwartz, ..... says that DuBois has psychic abilities, arguing in the March 6, 2005 TV Guide,..
 
Alex, down boy. Perihelion Xanateris isn't doing anywhere near well enough to warrant fuse blowing and all that will happen is you'll get a visit from a mod.

Now, back to the slanting:

the first test in particular showed only two of the contestants successfully completing the task in the allotted time

They showed only two successful contestants because only two succeeded. How do you propose they could have slanted this result in either direction? I guess if they were pro-psychic they could act all amazed about the successes and even pretty amazed by the near misses and point out the difficult conditions to explain away the other misses. Oh, hang on, that's exactly what they did. They even got the skeptic to say "well done".

How I would have done the first test: there would be the requisite control group, made up of army and/or civilian rescue personnel with sniffer dogs and GPS transponders. The second group would be skeptics, armed with only a map of the area. Then there would be the psychics, each acting individually, and actually having the camera on their person rather than having a cameraman nearby (eg a helmet cam).

But they didn't. They imposed no useful controls. It was a small area with two distinct tracks. The boy was in a blue sleeping bag on a tarpaulin in a fairly open area of bushland not far from the start line. Ask yourself why they didn't do anything to assure us the results were genuinely psychic - beyond doubt?

You may have been amazed but your own criteria above shows that you can accept the possibility that luck or hinting played a big part here. We do have a couple of checks and balances though - the container test, the Ned Kelly test and the psychometric reading - and Shé (Shay) failed all three, as did Jason.

So, given three misses and one (possibly lucky) hit, do you remain amazed? If so, are you amazed by everything that isn't a painful struggle against failure or do you think coincidence, luck and learning can play a part in normal day to day life but not in things done by people who claim to be psychic? I've said before that I live on a block over 21,000 square metres in area and I regularly find tennis balls in the middle of nowhere - without even trying. Am I psychic or is it just not that remarkable to find things by accident occasionally?

The second test (paranormal freestyle): Get the skeptics up there to do some cold reading and see how they compare.

Again, they didn't. But in most cases it simply wasn't necessary because, as it turned out, the actual readings were awful if you assess them with an open mind and a Skeptico Psychic Bingo Card! They are only convincing if you ignore the misses, the generics and the "bleeding obvious" (like guessing a seventy-something's mother was dead). Even so, why do you think Channel Seven imposed no controls - remember that Simon Turnbull, president of the Australian Psychics Association was a consultant to the show (and one website identifies him as "the creator" of the show).

I agree that the whole Peter Falconio thing was unforgivably tacky and whoever came up with it deserves to be soundly bitchslapped.

Well, now you've either crossed to the skeptic side - or you don't want the Falconio murder solved. Which is it? If these people are as good as they claim, then why did they fail so miserably to find anything but the outback in the outback? Could it be they aren't what they claim to be? Do you even hold open the possibility that they aren't psychic?

Never mind that Shé D'Montford aced the first test (that woman absolutely blew me away), and successfully identified a man with a specific medical problem in an audience full of complete strangers.

Firstly, we can't know they were complete strangers. The show advertised for audience members. There were skeptics in the audience that Richard knew. The skeptics were apparently outnumbered by believers. We can't assume the psychics knew no one, in fact, we could rightly be surprised if they didn't invite some of their customers and friends along. Having said that, if she cheated then she's worse as a cheat than she is as a psychic. She failed, repeatedly.

However, I assume you refer to when Shé whispered to the man (and announced it to everyone watching because she apparently doesn't know that microphones pick up sound?!?!) that he had prostate issues? Let's revisit it shall we (quote taken from a transcript on Bad Psychics TV):

Shé: Okay well you've got prostate issues actually.

Sitter: Uh, no.

The sitter's first response to the comment was an unequivocal "no". He clarified this by saying he "WAS" told he "COULD HAVE" prostate cancer but a biopsy had cleared him. He admitted an "enlarged prostate" but said there was "nothing wrong".

Okay, so you're going to call it a hit because she only said "prostate issues" and an enlarged prostate is obviously not a normal prostate so clearly, it is an issue for this man and I'm just being pedantic and trying to pretend she didn't get a hit when she did. So okay, she got a hit with a specific medical issue.

Or did she? Let's check the statistics from this website...

"A man's prostate gland usually starts to enlarge after he reaches 40 years of age."
"Prostate enlargement may be the most common health problem in men older than 60 years of age."


The man was over sixty so it wasn't a "specific medical problem", as you suggest, it was quite literally a "generic medical problem". If this is a good hit, then I can sense the old man has grey hair, reduced mobility and an increasingly grumpy intolerance to some things - as do most of his friends. But really, I'm going to have to take that hit back. I can't seriously credit a point for guessing an old man is an old man. What would have been impressive is if she'd found an old man who DIDN'T have an enlarged prostate. But she didn't.

Never mind that, let's all just ignore the evidence

Well, you can continue to do that if you wish but don't ask us to join in your game.

No wonder Stacey Demarco started yelling; the poor woman must have been at the end of her rope with you.

Well, let's just look back at Shé's prostate comment and the judges' responses. We know the "condition" was absolutely normal for a man of the sitter's age. What did the judges say?

Richard: Yes very interesting, that's what we call the win win game. You see you said there's something with the prostate but a gentleman of this, of his noble age would.....

Stacey: (interrupting) Oh hang on.

Richard: ...would have a prostate problem.

Stacey: (speaking over Richard) My dad's over your age and he's alright. (Mumbles)

So Demarco says her old dad is alright but we know that he can be alright AND have an enlarged prostate - and he probably has. But Richard's comment was correct and educational and didn't lead to people believing nonsense. Which one gained the higher ground here? The only way Demarco should be "at the end of her rope" is if they make selling credulity a hanging offence.

Now, back to the question of whether the show was slanted or not. Here's what Simon Turnbull says on his MySpace page: (my bolding)

"The One' TV series was fantastic to make. All the psychics and crew were super aware about sending a positive message to the viewing public through the incredible energy they put into the show."

I would have hoped they'd work hard to send out an honest message.
 
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AndyD,

Thank you for your insightful and well researched response to PX. I spent many hours in the studio audience as, (and I am not afraid to say), a sceptic friend of Richard and you are right, there were many believers - far more than sceptics. We were dotted about the place when we had a chance to take an entire day off work, as support for the lone voice of reason.

I found it fascinating from a research perspective to experience the workings of 7 different psychically gifted people, all with different specialities, and see them fail again and again, despite the lack of controls. In fact the word flabbergasted comes to mind when the excuses kept coming. By week 4 I was more than happy to bugger off overseas, not without regret of leaving him (R) to deal with the fallout.

You make some very salient points regarding editing and "slant" or bias with respect to the scientific method. There is only so much Richard can do with respect to setting protocols and controls for a show designed for entertainment and I agree, turned our not to be very much of the latter. It is a double edged sword when it comes to sceptics on shows such as this, and in my opinion, Richard did a service as a humanist sceptic, (see interview with Joe Nicoll on Point of Inquiry, 16/08/08).

I urge PX to listen to the interview Richard did with GhostRadio for further insight into the making and dealings of the show, as well as the interviews with all the alleged psychics. However, I wager PX would not be particularly interested in a counter-view, since it seems he/she has made up their mind.

I continue to find it interesting that the contestants happily and publicly bag Richard, when he has been most gracious, beyond what I consider the threshold for someone in his position (see; I buggered off overseas, above).

Alex, I sympathise with your post. Hang in there!

AndyD, for the benefit of PX (and assuming he has an open mind) can you please post the link to Ghostradio, as I have not been here long enough to post urls.

Cheers
 
Thanks foam, (did you know that was your acronym?).

Here's a post to the interview thread at Bad Psychics since The One is no longer on the front page at Ghost Radio.
 
I'm 300% the same as what Billy Joe said. I don't know how Richard kept so cool on the show.

When you get posts like that, with bias like that, and views like that, I get so angry.

Alex.
 
Oh AndyD,

Which number excuse are you pulling from the sceptics book of poo-poo? And to have the bah-bah sound at the end? Well you are just rubbing salt into the wound. Brilliant.

I take it you have seen the Rove clip from the same reading? Gold! I was in the audience for said "psychic reading" and had a chat with both women afterwards.

After snarking at us for being the "skeptics" one was telling me that the heart has feelings and emotions and that is how you explain heartbreak. Suffice to say, (and I have a more than reasonable knowledge of anatomy and physiology) I put her straight in a humanistic, sceptic way. Funny though that Seven aired that read. If it was bad enough for Rove to take the piss, then you have to wonder.
 
I'm new to formalised skepticism, or skeptical activism, so my copy of the book hasn't arrived. I'm not even sure if I'm supposed to order it or if the universe just takes care of it once I've proved I'm really being skeptical.

The funny thing about the Ezio read is that it was no worse than the other four. Most other reads had a little over one minute of air time (I broke the figures down in my article The One: Cheats DO prosper )

And in every case we saw every hit so we can know again that, in every case, the misses far outnumbered the hits by at least 4:1 (some results were much worse since there were almost no genuine hits even in what we did get to see). The reason Ezio got the video treatment was because they showed enough material to splice together - and he "cheated" ;).

Next, I might take a "humorous" look at Amanda's obsession with teeth.
 
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Parahella-idiot or whatever you are...you better shut up.

I'm freaking fuming.

Don't turn up here and think you know everything and start accusing Richard. You want to talk facts? Huh? I can tell you right now that you my friend are extremely one eyed and need to get your facts straight before you decide to look through your one-lens binocular.

People like you disgust me. Look at both sides, think about it logically and most of all, don't you dare start coming onto this thread and saying anything negative about Randi or Richard.

I also noticed that you have completely ignored the logical and correct information that AndyD has given to you. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

You are hypocritical, moronic, pathetic, mentally weak and completely lop sided. I hope that you continue believing and waste all of your money on the false and hollow rubbish involved with psychic readings.

Alex.


Wipe your chin, you've got foam all over it.


I never, not once, made any indication that I know everything. I will say whatever I please about Randi and Saunders and too bad if you don't like it. I'm entitled to my views.

I've studied both sides of the debate for some time and to be honest, I've found that most of the skeptics here and elsewhere have sadly put themselves in the same league as global warming deniers and creationists: they want what they believe to be true, so they ignore any evidence to the contrary.

I disgust you? Hey, the feeling's mutual, pal.

AndyD said:
Well, now you've either crossed to the skeptic side - or you don't want the Falconio murder solved. Which is it? If these people are as good as they claim, then why did they fail so miserably to find anything but the outback in the outback? Could it be they aren't what they claim to be? Do you even hold open the possibility that they aren't psychic?

I've been a skeptic from the beginning. The difference between me and the rest of you is I'm a hell of a lot more open-minded. In other news, yes it's actually possible to be a psychic AND a skeptic! You read it here first!

There are times, believe it or not, when I've questioned my own abilities. The reason I haven't succumbed to those doubts is because I've seen and experienced too much to explain it all away.

There is always the possiblity that some of the contestants are frauds. Channel Seven picked the contestants on the basis of public exposure volume, not their actual reliability.
 
I've found that most of the skeptics here and elsewhere have sadly put themselves in the same league as global warming deniers and creationists: they want what they believe to be true, so they ignore any evidence to the contrary.

I have laid out a hell of a lot of evidence from The One. You've completely ignored all but one small piece quoted below, and you didn't even address that bit.

Originally Posted by AndyD
Well, now you've either crossed to the skeptic side - or you don't want the Falconio murder solved. Which is it? If these people are as good as they claim, then why did they fail so miserably to find anything but the outback in the outback? Could it be they aren't what they claim to be? Do you even hold open the possibility that they aren't psychic?

I've been a skeptic from the beginning. The difference between me and the rest of you is I'm a hell of a lot more open-minded. In other news, yes it's actually possible to be a psychic AND a skeptic! You read it here first!

No, I've read that elsewhere, before. And I agree with it and believe it would be incredibly weird to never be skeptical - of anything. A month ago I wrote the following in my own blog in reference to a site advising what to expect from a quality psychic reading.

"The author advises us not to believe claims that we need expensive candles or incense to solve our problems or that incense or candles can restore a love life. These are exceptionally good things to take note of - though I'm unsure why the author is so closed-minded about the people who profess the usefulness of these things. I guess even psychics can be skeptical when they see people actively hurting their industry's image."

So not only have I heard it before - I wrote it before you did :)

There are times, believe it or not, when I've questioned my own abilities. The reason I haven't succumbed to those doubts is because I've seen and experienced too much to explain it all away.

Have you ever had someone else, someone who doesn't believe and is experienced in the psychology of belief, try to explain it for you or did you just try to rationalise it for yourself? (But this is drifting off topic so if you want to discuss it you should really start a new thread)

There is always the possiblity that some of the contestants are frauds. Channel Seven picked the contestants on the basis of public exposure volume, not their actual reliability.

Andrew Daddo said they auditioned "literally hundreds" of psychics and these were the best. Are you now saying the producers were dishonest in their presentation of the contestants? Welcome to the club.

Now, why did you think the person who arranged the Falconio test should have been "bitchslapped"? Are you skeptical of all remote viewing claims or just the contestants who took part? Did you express your concern anywhere prior to that segment being televised (it was widely reported up to a month beforehand) or were you only annoyed after they failed to find anything? Did a part of you hope they would succeed? Would you have supported it if Shé was part of it?

When you've dealt with that question, feel free to address every other point I raised regarding the high failure rate, the generic nature of the medical guess that amazed you and the exceptionally biased editing.

I'm happy to be shown where I've made errors since I am incredibly open-minded to the possibilities - more than you might guess. In fact, if you're psychic, you should be able to read between the lines and intuit my open-mindedness.

ETA: Oh dear, I just visited Shé's website and see that she's actually using the "prostate issue" reading as a promotion of her "medical intuitive" abilities.
 
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I've wiped my chin covered with invisible foam. Now you wipe your blind eyes.

You've studied both sides of the argument have you? And I'm Jack Nicholson.

This is so sad PX. Seriously, you are one of those people who are at the point where they are so one-eyed, bias, hypocritical and ignorant that they actually believe that other people are.

You're a lost cause.

You posting here is pointless, and our voices of reason are drowned by your bigotry.

Alex.

ETA: and for God's sake do not call me 'pal'.
 
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