The Oldest Religious Structures & Ancient Aliens?

[Maddparrot]

It's at least 100 to 1 on, isn't it?

Probably.
Bimini Road, is easily dismissed.
If he wants to try and make us rewrite it, that road will not work!
It was the first underwater thing I could think of that has some people saying a natural phenomenon is man made.

If he does use it, TimCallahan already shot it down.

 

[Psiload]

Bets on Bimini Road making it in here?

I'll see your Bimini Road and raise you a Yonaguni "monument".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yonaguni_Monument

 

[Marduk]

Probably.
Bimini Road, is easily dismissed.
If he wants to try and make us rewrite it, that road will not work!
It was the first underwater thing I could think of that has some people saying a natural phenomenon is man made.

If he does use it, TimCallahan already shot it down.

You also have
1. the non existent sunken city in the gulf of khambat, which turned out to be a ploy to boost marine tourism
2. the non existent sunken city in cuba which turned out to be prefabricated cylindrical concrete structures kicked off russian ships at the conclusion of the Cuban missile crisis
3. the real sunken city at Alexandria which subsided into the ocean after some earthquakes in the 4th century
4. the pretend ice age civilisation that unfortunately being globally coastal based were utterly destroyed by the 3 inch per year global sea rise at the end of the ice age
5. Lemuria, invented by a geologist to explain the similarity of fossil animals in India and Madagascar, which vanished when the modern theory of continental drift was established
6. the regular shaped blocks discovered on the floor of the Mediterranean and proclaimed to be Atlantis shortly before it was discovered that they were actually plastic wrapped blocks of hashish which were thrown off a drug smuggling vessel while it was being pursued by customs officials
7. the lost continent of Mu, discovered in Mayan texts by Augustus Le Plongeon and told to the world shortly before it was discovered that Le Plongeon couldn't read Mayan
8. Kumari Kandam which didn't exist until the 19th century and then became lost just at the same time as the Tamil nationalist movement needed some reason to berate the fact that they had no homeland.
9. the fabled land of Lyonesse, mentioned only in Arthurian legend and a french romance, which was lost off the coast of southern England until it turned out that Lyonesse was actually a bastardisation of the latin name for Lothian, which is still an unsunken part of Scotland
10. Sundaland, proclaimed by Robert Schoch to be the lost land of the global travelling pyramid builders which submerged several thousand years before the first cornerstone was laid

if only someone I knew had bothered to do a global inundation timeline based on contemporary shoreline data, which was globally accredited by oceanic laboratories as accurate
http://www.youtube.com/user/mardukuk

 

[MG1962]

Okay I have read the whole thread - One question. This gear they have in Turkey...11,000 years old - What do trained experts in the field say? Cause if it is really that old - thats some funky stuff to consider

 

[Marduk]

Okay I have read the whole thread - One question. This gear they have in Turkey...11,000 years old - What do trained experts in the field say? Cause if it is really that old - thats some funky stuff to consider

They say ancient temple erected by hunter-gatherers in the 9th millennium BCE.

 

[Dinwar]

5. All the megafauna died out on the same day in 12,000bce presumed drowned, except a few mammoth in Alaska

HOTLY debated. The Pleistocene/Holocene transition is very blurry--I'm half-tempted to say that the entire Holocene is nothing more than the transition from the Pleistocene to the Anthropocene. But at any rate, the exact dates for "all the megafauna died out" are anything but consistent for the very good reasons that 1) it didn't happen at the same time in all places, and 2) it's not done yet.

I know you weren't saying this as "This is evidence edge is right!" I'm more commenting that anyone who uses this line of evidence is too ignorant of Quaternary paleontology to be trusted to make this kind of argument.

5. Lemuria, invented by a geologist to explain the similarity of fossil animals in India and Madagascar, which vanished when the modern theory of continental drift was established

Got a reference for this? Not that I doubt you--in fact, it's just the opposite. This is the second time I've heard of a fictional critter getting an official taxonomic name, and would like to know more.

Someone may as well learn SOMETHING in this thread!

4) Sumerian civilization appeared suddenly, with no indication of anything transitional from the neolithic.

Even if this was true--and it obviously isn't--it wouldn't mean anything. The entire Holocene is a rounding error in some depositional environments. It's entirely possible for all traces of an entire culture to be wiped out via perfectly normal geologic events. Happens all the time when cultures build out of biodegradable materials (say, things stone-age humans had to work with) in areas experiencing a lot of erosion (say, eolian dunes). Someone gets the bright idea to use stones to stop his hut from blowing down, and I can see the idea taking off faster than the PC did--leaving little geologic evidence. I'm not saying this DID happen, just that "it appeared suddenly" is not justification for "Goddidit" Oh, wait, sorry, "Aliensdidit".

 

[Foster Zygote]

Just because we don't have the tech doesn't mean it hasn't been discovered by others out there, even Einstein knew there was a way theoretically.
It is possible that at least three generations of stars have lived and died and life arose billions of years before we did around one of those earlier solar systems.
If they survived, or just one civilization survived, where and what could they do, it would look like their physics that they use, would appear to be magic to us?

And with these seemingly magical billions of years old technologies they travel to earth to make bronze alloy clips and stone structures?

 

[Marduk]

Got a reference for this? Not that I doubt you--in fact, it's just the opposite. This is the second time I've heard of a fictional critter getting an official taxonomic name, and would like to know more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemuria_(continent)

In 1864 the zoologist and biogeographer Philip Sclater wrote an article on "The Mammals of Madagascar" in The Quarterly Journal of Science. Using a classification he referred to as lemurs but which included related primate groups, and puzzled by the presence of their fossils in both Madagascar and India but not in Africa or the Middle East, Sclater proposed that Madagascar and India had once been part of a larger continent

The anomalies of the Mammal fauna of Madagascar can best be explained by supposing that... a large continent occupied parts of the Atlantic and Indian Oceans... that this continent was broken up into islands, of which some have become amalgamated with... Africa, some... with what is now Asia; and that in Madagascar and the Mascarene Islands we have existing relics of this great continent, for which... I should propose the name Lemuria

The Lemuria theory disappeared completely from conventional scientific consideration after the theories of plate tectonics and continental drift were accepted by the larger scientific community. According to the theory of plate tectonics (now the only accepted paradigm in geology), Madagascar and India were indeed once part of the same landmass (thus accounting for geological resemblances), but plate movement caused India to break away millions of years ago, and move to its present location. The original landmass broke apart - it did not sink beneath sea level.

btw, the Lemur isn't fictional

I know you weren't saying this as "This is evidence edge is right!" I'm more commenting that anyone who uses this line of evidence is too ignorant of Quaternary paleontology to be trusted to make this kind of argument.

My post contained the evidence that Edge had put forward as supporting his conclusions, as is usual Edge's evidence is wrong and unsupportable

 

[Foster Zygote]

That is some of the estimates, some put it at 10,000 years ago and at that site are many other mysteries.

Who are these "some"?

 

[ynot]

And with these seemingly magical billions of years old technologies they travel to earth to make bronze alloy clips and stone structures?

But they have “advanced” their technology since to be able to make pretty patterns in fields of crops (when no one is looking).

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I Rember Lemuria!

Hmm. http://manybooks.net/titles/shaverrother07I_Remember_Lemuria.html

and the entire Shaver saga, even though it was before my time.

An amusing piece of fiction.

Look out for the Dero.

 

[Marduk]

I Rember Lemuria!

"Rember" the Alzheimer's treatment ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rember
Good for you

 

[Dinwar]

with what is now Asia; and that in Madagascar and the Mascarene Islands we have existing relics of this great continent, for which... I should propose the name Lemuria

Ah. I thought Lemuria was a taxonomic name. I know lemurs aren't fictional ( ), I just don't trust common names to be anything like taxonomic names.

Can't believe someone proposed a lost continent that late in the game, though. It's depressing.

Who are these "some"?

Seconded. What evidence did they use?

Or, let's put it this way: What oxygen isotope stage, NALMA, or glacial period did it happen during?

 

[Marduk]

Ah. I thought Lemuria was a taxonomic name. I know lemurs aren't fictional ( ), I just don't trust common names to be anything like taxonomic names.

Can't believe someone proposed a lost continent that late in the game, though. It's depressing.

Seconded. What evidence did they use?

Or, let's put it this way: What oxygen isotope stage, NALMA, or glacial period did it happen during?

I'd like some sources for this claim

it is written in many cultures that the Gods came down to earth and it describes them as star people.

I hear that a lot from wooists, yet they never seem able to substantiate it when questioned

 

[Maddparrot]

Another thing about Göbekli Tepe.
The monoliths, you know with the neat carvings?
Made of limestone.
Limestone has a Mohs Scale of (one source http://www.amfed.org/t_mohs.htm .)
So, making any carving into limestone is not really tough.

 

[Vortigern99]

Here, read an unbiased account of that Gobekli Tepe site. The expert who is helping preserve the site says, "They hadn't yet mastered engineering," when describing the builders of the site. ...

I've just read the above-linked article at Nat Geo. On page 2 there is a fascinating summary of the different camps of thought as to when, where and under what circumstances agriculture and religion developed in Neolithic times. Truly, deeply, fascinating stuff about the very origins of civilization.

Once one understands that at the very least, wild grain and wild game were available to people of the area, and that permanent settlements are a known and moderately well-understood facet of late hunter-gatherer groups, there is no need to appeal to alien intervention to explain how such a complex structure (or series of structures) as Gobekli Tepe came to be engineered.

 

[MG1962]

Reading that Nat Geo article, I cant help wonder what is out there still to be discovered. People dont just start building structures like that without a little practice or experimentation.

Once we find those, then we can really fill in the gaps

 

[Marduk]

Reading that Nat Geo article, I cant help wonder what is out there still to be discovered. People dont just start building structures like that without a little practice or experimentation.

Once we find those, then we can really fill in the gaps

Homo Erectus built huts you know

 

[MG1962]

Homo Erectus built huts you know

The article talks of decending technology between the three main levels. We would expect the artisans and builders to go the other way similar to what is seen in the evolution of the pyramids.

Skill sets take time to develope. We only have to look at stone tool quarries for examples. We find plenty of mistakes and errors simply abandoned to the ages. While at the same time we find first class examples hundreds of miles from their source, and possibly in use for generations

 

[Marduk]

The article talks of decending technology between the three main levels. We would expect the artisans and builders to go the other way similar to what is seen in the evolution of the pyramids.

Skill sets take time to develop. We only have to look at stone tool quarries for examples. We find plenty of mistakes and errors simply abandoned to the ages. While at the same time we find first class examples hundreds of miles from their source, and possibly in use for generations

I remember reading that the climatology of the area affected the levels of game, the region, once lush dried out, the temple eventually abandoned completely, that has paralells with pyramids, up to a point they got more impressive, but then they went into decline as their value diminished in light of new religious practices. In this case, what effect would dwindling natural resources have on the skill shown in a religious construction built by a hunter gatherer culture ?

"bugger this" said the last priest of Gobekli Tepe "I'm moving with the times and am gonna try out this new fangled agriculture thing I keep hearing so much about"