The Official UK Election Thread! 6th May it is!

[Ashles]

Still people commenting on Have Your Say (BBC) and other forums not grasping the hungness aspect of this election, viz. a majority of the population did not vote for the Conservatives, they simply got the most votes and seats but failed to secure a parliamentary majority.

Enemies of Reason had a good commentary on how the complexity of this result is not liked by the media:

http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/05/09/rejoice-at-the-complexity/

Ooh I like that article.

The writer has also summed up what I was trying to say about the newspapers better than I managed to do:

And so, when you get a hung parliament, I reckon it's disliked by the papers for two reasons - well many more than two, if I'm going to try and stick to the principles I've outlined in this post, but we'll start with two and fan out from there. Firstly, their chosen candidates didn't win. That's something irritating, because it makes them look a little bit less than powerful. Sure, David Cameron received 36% of the popular vote, and got 47% of the seats - but it wasn't a convincing victory. Newspapers told their readers to vote for him. They didn't all do that. Now you could say that most of their readers did vote for him, but we have no evidence that's the case. They might have roundly ignored the advice of their inky friends, and put Xs down for all kinds of other candidates. So whatever way you look at it, the papers look like mugs for saying that Cameron was the only hope to save Britain, and their readers said "meh". To them, that's annoying. To me, it's great. But there you are.

(And obviously the same principle applies, even more so, for any papers who insisted we vote for Brown or Clegg)

 

[Dragon]

So what? Name the last time any party could say that the majority of the population voted for them.

Rolfe.

Absolutely - any party getting 40% of the vote would have a decent to whopping majority in the Commons but still not the support of 60% of voters.

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

So what? Name the last time any party could say that the majority of the population voted for them.

Rolfe.

In this system you don't need a majority of votes but you do need a majority of seats. If the Tories can't persuade the public to give them a majority of the seats and can't persuade the other parties to jump on board their coalition then to me that's a problem for the Tories not anyone else.

If people don't like the system..... well they can change it..... except the Tories don't want any change.

 

[Ashles]

In this system you don't need a majority of votes but you do need a majority of seats. If the Tories can't persuade the public to give them a majority of the seats and can't persuade the other parties to jump on board their coalition then to me that's a problem for the Tories not anyone else.

If people don't like the system..... well they can change it..... except the Tories don't want any change.

Bu-But their posters said it was time for change... didn't they?

 

[Cuddles]

I agree, they are way out on the smaller parties. However I think we can conclude that AV is not going to produce a dramatically different result from FPTP.

Depends how dramatic you want your difference. Given those figures, it would be different enough for a Lab/Lib coalition to have a solid majority.

 

[Ashles]

Latest development:

Labour recognise their efforts to do a deal with the Lib Dems to stay in power are over, the BBC understands.
The decision appears to clear the way for a Lib Dem and Tory deal which would see David Cameron succeeding Labour's Gordon Brown as prime minister.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Brown resigning tonight according to Sky.

 

[dudalb]

That some people are minmizing the fact that the Tories, like them or not, got the most votes, and want to excluse them from any real voice in government, seems to me to indicate a "I like Democracy..except when I don't like the election results" attitude.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

1935. What do I win?

Nothing.

The question was a majority of the population.

1935 didn't even get a majority of the electorate (turnout 71.1%).

And of course the question asked when was the last time a party could say that the majority of the population voted for them. Given that parties consist of politicians, and that groups traditional relationship with the truth, the answer has to be 2010 as I am sure someone will claim the Tories got a majority.

 

[commandlinegamer]

The long hours of negotiating over the past few days appear to have taken their toll on William Hague:

http://twitpic.com/1myrdp

 

[commandlinegamer]

Gordon resigns 7.18 BST

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

That some people are minmizing the fact that the Tories, like them or not, got the most votes, and want to excluse them from any real voice in government, seems to me to indicate a "I like Democracy..except when I don't like the election results" attitude.

The system we have is working the way the system works. The Tories seem to want to preserve it in its entirety so I guess they can't complain.

 

[Rockingham AH Deist]

The only one? Do you believe that?

Ok not the only one. But the only one to be kicked out for doing so(on account of not doing so in a lukewarm manner).

I seem to remember voting in a EU election last year, and the Lisbon Treaty giving the EU Parliament more power over the council.

"More power" yes, but nonetheless the sole elected element of the EU, its parliament, does not have even a plurality of power in the EU.

Furthermore, most countries din't even get a vote on that treaty, despite the fact that many such as the UK would have rejected it.

The EU is currently the project of bureacrats, elites and vested interests(look at the blatantly corrupt and disastrous Common Agricultural Policy, for example). What are the odds that it will ever be as democratic as most of the national politics(low I suspect). Furthermore it covers a huge and incredibly diverse population- the idea that anything other then the broadest brush stroke policies can suit such a huge group which have very little in common is ludicrous on the face of it. But hey, we exist in a world in which Utah and Massachussets are part of the same federation-compared to that, the EU appears almost the brainchild of a sentient being.

 

[Debaser]

That some people are minmizing the fact that the Tories, like them or not, got the most votes, and want to exclude them from any real voice in government, seems to me to indicate a "I like Democracy..except when I don't like the election results" attitude.

Unfortunately the people of Britain have had enough experience of parties with ONE-THIRD of the popular vote having enough seats to completely ignore the wishes of the other TWO-THIRDS of the electorate and ram through legislation to last them many lifetimes.

We haven't had anything resembling 'consensus government' since long before 1979, but that's the dread date in most peoples minds.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

The system we have is working the way the system works. The Tories seem to want to preserve it in its entirety so I guess they can't complain.

I'm not sure the events of the last few days (including the way the Lib Dems have behaved) is going to do much for the case of PR.

After all PR pretty much guarantees this situation after every election.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Mr Cameron mentioned reforming the voting system.

Interesting.

 

[Debaser]

I'm not sure the events of the last few days (including the way the Lib Dems have behaved) is going to do much for the case of PR.

After all PR pretty much guarantees this situation after every election.

Maybe we've been lucky, but here in Leeds the sky hasn't yet fallen in.

I know you're not passing comment, good or ill, on what's been happening but all this weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth we've had from the media these past few days has just been a pain.

That politicians have, shock horror, been talking to each other behind closed doors....well I never. And taken FIVE days to form a government? That's just disgraceful.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Maybe we've been lucky, but here in Leeds the sky hasn't yet fallen in.

I know you're not passing comment, good or ill, on what's been happening but all this weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth we've had from the media these past few days has just been a pain.

That politicians have, shock horror, been talking to each other behind closed doors....well I never. And taken FIVE days to form a government? That's just disgraceful.

Indeed.

However I have also not seen anything remotely democratic about Clegg prostituting his party to the highest bidder.

And now that Cameron is PM, we will have to see how easy it is to pass the legislation that the Tory backbenchers really don't support. Especially if the polls tell them that they would be better of going to the polls for a sole mandate.

 

[Debaser]

Indeed.

However I have also not seen anything remotely democratic about Clegg prostituting his party to the highest bidder.

But that's always been on the cards in our system. It's just been dumb luck we've gone so long without seeing it.

 

[zooterkin]

There was a bit of sanity on Radio 4 earlier, when it was pointed out that Birmingham is being run by a Tory/Lib-Dem coalition, which is quite successfully taking hard decisions about redundancies and controlling a substantial budget, and the city has not yet descended into anarchy (as far as one can tell in Birmingham).