The Odd Lies of Paul Ryan

[Kaosium]

The Janesville plant closed a month before Obama took office but there was a single shift still at the plant for a further few months to finish off an order and close up the plant. The decision was made and the workers paid their severance before Obama was president.

How come it didn't open back up with government's help so it could still be there in a hundred years? It's not a life form, it can't die and be beyond resuscitation!

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

How come it didn't open back up with government's help so it could still be there in a hundred years? It's not a life form, it can't die and be beyond resuscitation!

Wait a second. So when Obama said that if the industry received government support that plant could stay open a hundred years, what he meant was even if the industry didn't get the government support that future government support would re-open closed plants?

Are are you just moving goalposts?

Ryan has been hawking this as a broken promise by Obama. What was the promise made?

 

[Kaosium]

Wait a second. So when Obama said that if the industry received government support that plant could stay open a hundred years, what he meant was even if the industry didn't get the government support that future government support would re-open closed plants?

Are are you just moving goalposts?

How did those 'goalposts' get set in cement by those criticizing his speech? That's a neat trick there!

If I could move goalposts I'd have done them in Lambeau, all it would have taken would have been inches and Akers wouldn't have tied Demsey's record. Actually come to think of it I wouldn't have, it was just three points and it was cool to see it happen!

Ryan has been hawking this as a broken promise by Obama. What was the promise made?

Here's what Obama said, according to the Detroit Free Press:

"I know how hard your governor has fought to keep jobs in this plant. But I also know how much progress you've made -- how many hybrids and fuel-efficient vehicles you're churning out. And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years."

All I was getting at is the plant is still there, there's been layoffs and new contracts (making different vehicles) before, thus just because the plant got closed down doesn't inherently mean it has/had to be closed forever. Why couldn't it have re-opened? Either under GM or someone else lured there with the help of government?

Here's a paradox I wonder if some people get. Imagine for a moment that some worthless scum of a rich guy were to decide he could make green widgets or whatever at that plant, but would only take the risk if he didn't have to pay anything more than what the income tax rates are now on his profits. So he comes in, retools the factory to make greenidgets, and hires 6k people, the historical maximum at that plant (though I think it was down to 1k or so by the end) making an average of $15.00 an hour.

That would mean there'd be a lot more people in Janesville working, some moving up from lower paying (or less palatable) jobs, allowing others to take those and some coming from the ranks of the unemployed. That might not be a great wage, but all of a sudden there'd be a lot more disposable income in that area, allowing for more people to buy things from other local businesses, helping them to greater profits too, and all of them paying more in taxes to government, the lower wage workers paying sales taxes to state and local governments and payroll taxes to the Feds.

The worthless scum of a rich guy is no doubt diddling whatever he lays eyes on when he's not torturing bunnies, his wife no doubt wears fur and just gives those charity fundraisers simply to gossip about how much she hates the 'little people' and has one of those annoying little dogs yip-yipping all the time--and of course they hide all this behind their gated mansion that's twenty times the space anyone should really need.

The worst thing of course would be the rich got richer, and probably more so than the poor got richer, as that's the way it usually works. So we can't do this, or anything like it, instead we must raise the rate on the rich, which might lead to more short term government revenues, but others? They might not invest where they otherwise could have or seeing the handwriting on the wall just leave. There will always be Scarlet Pimpernels ('Sink me!') and of course in this day and age it can also be done with a push of a button, which is why they're considering or implementing a wealth tax in the United Kingdom and France.

Greed, envy and hate might be motivating factors for individuals, and their often deleterious effects mitigated by the fact no one individual has much power, but when they become government policy it can often be disastrous and there's those who just do not understand the 'Law of Unintended Consequences' and that you don't control the future by thinking you control the past, you're just doomed to do the same things over and over again.

Sorry! Packers were losing and I got a trifle annoyed and way off on a tangent and a bit snarky--though not aimed at you in the slightest. It actually makes sense to me, but I'm sure that's just because I'm weird! Just having a little fun, too, I wouldn't want anyone to take it seriously. After all, just exactly when that plant closed (so we know if he lied!) is one of the only things that really matter and I must be just dissembling shamelessly of course because while what he said makes perfect sense to me, if deconstructed 'correctly' he must be lying as no 'promises' were ever made, after all it appears Obama didn't even know that plant made SUV's and not hybrids so we all should have known better than to think maybe it could someday.

 

[Unabogie]

Ryan lies again. This time he denies ever voting for the military cuts he voted for. Just flat out denies it.

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2...-didnt-vote-for-the-defense-cuts-i-voted-for/

O’DONNELL: Now you’re criticizing the President for those same defense cuts you’re voting for and called a victory.
RYAN: No, no — I have to correct on you this, Norah. I voted for a mechanism that says the sequester will occur if we don’t cut $1.2 trillion in government. … We can get into this nomenclature; I voted for the Budget Control Act. But the Obama Administration proposed $478 billion in defense cuts. We don’t agree with that, our budget rejected that, and then on top of that is another $500 billion in defense cuts in the sequester.
O’DONNELL: Right. A trillion dollars in defense spending, and you voted for it!
RYAN: No, Norah. I voted for the Budget Control Act.
O’DONNELL: That included defense spending!
RYAN: Norah, you’re mistaken.

Granted, this isn't as big a deal as lying about your marathon time, but it's close.

 

[elbe]

Granted, this isn't as big a deal as lying about your marathon time, but it's close.

Obviously you're getting off topic. I think the important question is how big a fish has he caught.

 

[DavidJames]

Ryan lies again. This time he denies ever voting for the military cuts he voted for. Just flat out denies it.

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2...-didnt-vote-for-the-defense-cuts-i-voted-for/



Granted, this isn't as big a deal as lying about your marathon time, but it's close.

I just downed a couple of motion sickness pills because this thread will be spinning like a top shortly

 

[Unabogie]

I just downed a couple of motion sickness pills because this thread will be spinning like a top shortly

You should try Vodka.

 

[Frank Newgent]

The worthless scum of a rich guy is no doubt diddling whatever he lays eyes on when he's not torturing bunnies, his wife no doubt wears fur and just gives those charity fundraisers simply to gossip about how much she hates the 'little people' and has one of those annoying little dogs yip-yipping all the time--and of course they hide all this behind their gated mansion that's twenty times the space anyone should really need.

Never could stand that dog:

 

[Kaosium]

I just downed a couple of motion sickness pills because this thread will be spinning like a top shortly

No need, he explains it himself.

He voted for an act to cut the budget, then proposed alternative spending cuts to the military ones. I don't happen to agree with his position, however I understand it. It appears she doesn't, she gets hung up on what would have happened automatically and doesn't take into account that they proposed alternative spending cuts. The link you provided also explains the additional Administration cuts she brought up that Ryan also opposed, to wit:

National Journal reported last week that the House GOP budget, which Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) unveiled today, would “pull the defense-spending cuts [of more than $500 billion] mandated by sequestration off the table.” How will the Republicans achieve this goal? They will ask 6 congressional committees to come up with reductions which means that food stamps and other social safety net programs are likely to face cuts.

But the new GOP budget not only prevents further military spending cuts at the expense of the less well-off, it actually increases funds for defense and other security related spending. Last year, the Obama administration and Congress agreed to $487 billion in military spending cuts as part of the Budget Control Act but the Republicans want to roll back about half of those reductions as well:

The Ryan plan also increases national defense spending to $554 billion in 2013, an increase of $8 billion over the $546 billion that was agreed to under the Budget Control Act.

That would reverse some of the $487 billion in cuts that the Pentagon has planned to implement over the next decade. Over 10 years, the Ryan budget would spend $6.2 trillion on defense, which is higher than the $5.97 trillion level set under the Budget Control Act.

When some people hear Paul Ryan talking about the budget, the best bet isn't to assume he's lying but that they need to listen to him so at least they can understand it. That would include this Armbruster dude as apparently he didn't realize when he linked his own piece from March criticizing Ryan for wanted the Pentagon's cuts restored in favor of other cuts elsewhere it revealed he wasn't correct, and Ryan was, in what he said to that rather attractive young lady.

Oh, it could also be they're entirely clueless about how Congress works. Just because that sequestration would happen were nothing else done, doesn't mean they're inevitable. They can always pass other bills too, which is what they do.

After all, the 'debt ceiling' wasn't set in stone, was it?

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

OR he could be lying and you're spinning like a top.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

I invented the internet whilst dodging Bosnian snipers.

I invented physics whilst dodging Higgs boson snipers.

 

[Kaosium]

OR he could be lying and you're spinning like a top.

It's actually not that difficult to figure out.

 

[BenBurch]

It's actually not that difficult to figure out.

You must be quite dizzy.

 

[Kaosium]

You must be quite dizzy.

Nope, but I do hold out hope that all those smearing Paul Ryan (or were--haven't seen much lately but haven't gone looking for it either) aren't actually stupid enough to believe it and are just trying to win an election.

Otherwise we're in even worse trouble.

 

[Olowkow]

"Smearing Ryan?" Which story was that? To me the meaning of "smear" is that the story was a falsehood....or an unsubstantiated rumor.

 

[Olowkow]

"Smearing Ryan?" Which story was that? To me the meaning of "smear" is that the story was a falsehood....or an unsubstantiated rumor.

It wasn't a trick question. Ryan is a compulsive liar, plain and simple. How does one smear a compulsive liar? It's like libeling a whore.

A compulsive liar is defined as someone who lies out of habit. Lying is their normal and reflexive way of responding to questions. Compulsive liars bend the truth about everything, large and small. For a compulsive liar, telling the truth is very awkward and uncomfortable while lying feels right.

 

[Magyar]

Nope, but I do hold out hope that all those smearing Paul Ryan (or were--haven't seen much lately but haven't gone looking for it either) aren't actually stupid enough to believe it and are just trying to win an election.

Otherwise we're in even worse trouble.

I think that there are some people in this thread who were actually referenced by a politician today. And surprisingly he even actually told the truth.

Santorum: "We will never have the elite, smart people on our side

http://www.americablog.com/2012/09/santorum-we-will-never-have-elite-smart.html

 

[iknownothing]

I knew a liar that said she could run a mile in about one minute.
"Really? You can run 60 miles per hour?!"

She was quiet after that for about 30 minutes, at which point she started to talk about how Playboy wanted her as a model when she was 13yrs old and how she saw the set where they faked the moon-landing when she was in the AF reserves....

Maybe Paul Ryan is like this.

Maybe!

Article today about a couple of Paul Ryan's maybe-suspect claims; mostly about his 6-8% body fat, but also mentions his claimed 38 trips up mountains 14,000 feet and higher:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...n_claims_he_has_6_to_8_percent_body_fat_.html

I really didn't think the marathon thing was that big of a deal; people's memories can get screwed up. But if it's part of a pattern of making exaggerated claims about himself...well, it's entertaining anyway. I'm not voting for him regardless so I don't really care.

 

[Tricky]

Not worth its own thread, but this "Bad Lip Reading" video of Paul Ryan has me feeling the need for a keyboard spit shield.

 

[carlitos]

My my. He made a video diary with a poster of Nickelback in the background?