Merged The NPT (no planes theory) Discussed / Septemberclues

[X]

Who says the planes "vaporized on impact"?

And where on earth did you get the idea that "there was no recoverable debris"?



Look, Obwon; at the top of the 9/11 C.T. section here are some sticked posts and sub-forums.

Go look through them. Also, along the top bar is a button labeled "search". Try using it.

I say this because a brief perusal of your posts shows you to be sorely misinformed about a great many topics.


Until and unless you can demonstrate at least a basic understanding of physical principals and ability to check your facts for accuracy (note: This does not mean simply Googling the claim and assuming that if it shows up elsewhere it's correct, it means actually checking it out), there is little point to discussing your "No Plane Theory".

Especially when it is based on long-disproven notions and inane nonsense.



Oh, and this thread might help you wrap your head around the "impossible flight maneuvers" nonsense.

 

[twinstead]

Somebody needs to inform all those volunteers and first responders who picked up plane parts, personal effects, and body fragments for days in Shanksville that there was no recoverable debris.

 

[carlitos]

An essential part of the NPT are those claims that the planes vaporized on impact. Well, suffice it to say that for the planes to have experienced significant vaporization under ideal conditions, they'd have to have flown at mach 15 +. At 500 mph, the energy of impact is barely sufficient to raise the temperature of the metal 56 degrees f. So, we either need a new reason why there was no recoverable debris, or we must assume -- because 100 ton planes cannot simply vanish into thin air -- no planes actually crashed where no debris is present or seen.

You are misinformed about nearly everything you posted above. There was lots of identifiable plane debris recovered from the crashes.

Obwon - you are probably too young to have flown much, but I have. I used to fly for business a lot before 9/11. Flight schedules are published, public documents. I used to carry a book in my briefcase which had all the world's flight schedules in it. In this book were AA 11, UA 93, AA 77 and UA 175. Those were real flights. Every flight was published, booked by travel agents using SABRE, catered, crewed, fueled up and was boarded by real passengers with real names, real jobs and real families back home. The flights taxied and took off. They were tracked by RADAR until they crashed. In 2 cases (IIRC), the black box data was recovered and confirmed the different piloting style of the hijackers vs. real pilots. This is the real world. Your thoughts are fantasy.

 

[Bell]

Somebody needs to inform all those volunteers and first responders who picked up plane parts, personal effects, and body fragments for days in Shanksville that there was no recoverable debris.

Just for arguments sake... I guess I didn't see a 767 porthole on display at the WTC Tribute Visitor Center.

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Obwon,

How original! Even Ben Kenobi can see the errors of your ways. Perhaps the Dark Side isn't too fond of the "no-planes" theory because it makes them look retarded. You know what I meant by the Dark Side don't you? The 9/11 Truth Movement!

Even a big walking carpet like me can tell the difference with my own eyes. The planes existed, they were piloted by radical muslims hell bent on destroying Americas financial & military businesses & killing as many of our civilians as they can.

You are not Ben Kenobi, no amount of hand waving can produce enough evidence to prove your silly "no-planes" theory.

 

[excaza]

An essential part of the NPT are those claims that the planes vaporized on impact.

Except the planes didn't vaporize on impact.

Well, suffice it to say that for the planes to have experienced significant vaporization under ideal conditions, they'd have to have flown at mach 15 +.

Mach 15? You're just making this up as you go along, aren't you?

At 500 mph, the energy of impact is barely sufficient to raise the temperature of the metal 56 degrees f.

Yeah, the energy of a fully loaded jetliner impacting a building is pretty insignificant. More hand-waving 'calculations' please!

So, we either need a new reason why there was no recoverable debris

Except there was. Reality calls!

or we must assume -- because 100 ton planes cannot simply vanish into thin air

Well you got something right.

-- no planes actually crashed where no debris is present or seen

Except there was debris.

 

[TexasJack]

I wish there was a moron meter in each thread so I could anticipate the degree of stupid.

 

[excaza]

I wish there was a moron meter in each thread so I could anticipate the degree of stupid.

Post count is a good start

 

[alienentity]

That is beyond the scope of this exercise. This is to focus on; planes or no planes and the reasons why either is the more rational choice.

No offense, Obwon, but evidence and logic are also beyond the scope of this exercise.

I agree 100% with one thing you wrote, as applied to what you wrote: 'Well, that simply doesn't make any sense at all'

 

[alienentity]

Obwon, you should hook up with Jammonius. Together you could be like the happy couple, Jim Fetzer and Judy Wood - take the world by storm, open a giant can of Truther Whupass on them dastardly perps!

 

[Furcifer]

Wait, wait, wait.

How'd they get the plane shaped holes in both buildings?

Magic subforum------->

 

[beachnut]

In any event, why does any of this matter? The supposed Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists, did not have the skills to fly these aircraft, less, in the manner they were shown to have flown. So either way you're working with a set of impossible circumstances and accepting a very improbable result.

...

What a load of hogwash!
You failed; people saw the impacts of planes at the WTC and Pentagon. Parts of planes at all three site, and in PA. Darn, a fake plane with real parts. Your fantasy has failed, when will you figure out 911?



Terrorist had pilot licenses from the FAA. Plus most kids could fly a 767/757 and crash into a building. Have you failed to go on an orientation ride in a small plane? The 757/767 is easier to fly than a small prop plane. Your lack of knowledge on the terrorists is due to what reason? They were pilots! They trained for years! They would not have passed a checked ride, they fly terrible, my mom can fly better but they could hit targets from 40 feet to 200 feet wide all day long; that is how wide some runways are.

They were pilots so they had basic flying skills.
You can't tell anyone what you mean by the manner they were flown.
What maneuver can't the terrorists do? Explain in detail why?

An essential part of the NPT are those claims that the planes vaporized on impact. Well, suffice it to say that for the planes to have experienced significant vaporization under ideal conditions, they'd have to have flown at mach 15 +. At 500 mph, the energy of impact is barely sufficient to raise the temperature of the metal 56 degrees f. So, we either need a new reason why there was no recoverable debris, or we must assume -- because 100 ton planes cannot simply vanish into thin air -- no planes actually crashed where no debris is present or seen.

No recoverable debris? All the DNA of Flight 93 passengers was found, all but one on Flight 77. No recoverable debris? Do you mock the dead on purpose making up wild delusional lies?

No recoverable debris?

Why do you lie? Why have you failed to figure out 911 given the answers?

Debris, recovered! Why are you telling lies?

FDR; has flight data from a jet used on 911. No Debris? Why do you make up delusions?

 

[TruthersLie]

No offense, Obwon, but evidence and logic are also beyond the scope of this exercise.

I agree 100% with one thing you wrote, as applied to what you wrote: 'Well, that simply doesn't make any sense at all'

well considering that he things that
obwon = obiwan.

It breaks my heart to see that not only do truthers not know how to spell, they have bad research skills.

 

[TJM]

We already have a no planer, but I can't resist asking:

Obwon, I see you've posted in the 43 videos thread. You'll note the length of that thread. You should also know that thread is an epic failure on the part of the OP simply due to the fact he hasn't managed to convince anyone of any of the absurd claims he's made. How is your delusion any different from his?

The other no-planer has laid out a ridiculously convoluted theory centered around an imaginary weapon system derived from super secret imaginary technology that some imaginary cadre of bad guys used to turn the WTC into dust. Do you also believe this or do you have some imaginary weapons of your own? Thermite, hush-a-booms, the fairy godmother, what ever.

Out with it. What destroyed the World Trade Center?

 

[Corsair 115]

Please tell me the "hijackers are still alive" canard is not being brought out AGAIN?

Apparently so, yes. It would seem that, just like vampires and zombies, the "hijackers are still alive" silliness just won't stay dead.

 

[MRC_Hans]

An essential part of the NPT are those claims that the planes vaporized on impact. Well, suffice it to say that for the planes to have experienced significant vaporization under ideal conditions, they'd have to have flown at mach 15 +. At 500 mph, the energy of impact is barely sufficient to raise the temperature of the metal 56 degrees f. So, we either need a new reason why there was no recoverable debris, or we must assume -- because 100 ton planes cannot simply vanish into thin air -- no planes actually crashed where no debris is present or seen.

However, since tons of plane debris was recovered from the sites, this speculation is moot.

Hans

 

[Sabretooth]

In many aspects, in my personal experience, flying a jet is easier than driving a car. Taking off and landing are the tricky parts...two areas which the terrorist pilots had no interest in learning. Flying requires the knowledge of two things: Flight stick and throttle. Period. Once a jet is airborne, it's a matter of using the flight stick to point your nose (ie: steering wheel) in the direction you would like to go. The speed is controlled by the throttle (ie: gas pedal). Any acne-faced Xbox loving teen could fly a jet and not even look up from the bag of Funions.

How can you suggest the terrorists did not have the skills required to fly a plane, when it is truly a very simple process?

 

[Obwon]

Hahaha... Seems many of you, who are against the NPT, l are using the same bogus evidence that has already been admitted to be false. In any event, as far as plane debris, you have only to read the official stories answer, that the planes either vaporized or atomized on impact. That tells you that there wasn't any debris. The landing gear and the engine part, were both admitted to be not from either WTC plane.

How's that? Get it? The engine shown streaming from the tower trailing fire, which lands on Church street Near Murry, and is found there smoking! Is reported to have bounced off a car and left a hole in the street, is the wrong size engine for 767 and the FBI, NTSB admits that it did not come from either plane! Confirmed by the found part number! So what was it doing on Murry st. smoking, no less, if it didn't come on a skyjacked plane? But hey, that tells you something, if it's planted, which it is, then why plant it and call into question the 911 events? The answer, of course. is it has to be planted, because there are no planes.

Like I said, either you have planes, in which case you don't need or want false evidence around, or you don't have any planes, in which case the more false evidence the merrier, since it can hurt any worse than the truth.

And yes, of the 19 skyjackers 9 were found alive and one died a year before the 911 attacks. Yet they are not only listed as the skyjackers, one and all, but Bin Laden speaks highly of one of them, who was never involved!

Oh yes! And then you want to argue that that yellow pour that comes streaming out of the building is melted aluminum, but energy of the crash can only raise the temperature of the craft by 58 degrees f. The jet fuel is disbursed when it burns and cannot inject it's energy into the metal of the aircraft, nor does it burn hot enough to melt it. So you need another source for that yellow pour, the one you've been using doesn't get it.

Trying to say there was confusion about the skyjackers is a no go! The FBI published, not only the names, but their pictures and histories. So now you have only 9 possible skyjackers to populate 4 planes. While "the calls from the planes" claim that each plane had between 4 and 5 skyjackers on board. Do you mean to tell us that OBL couldn't find 19 Islamic Fundamentalist terrorist to carry out his planned attacks? Well, that's pretty much in line with his original claim that he had nothing to do with these attacks. At least that was the story before the fake videos of him claiming success etc., began being found in the hills of Afghanistan. Go figure, eh?

 

[carlitos]

Obwon, you appear to have missed this

Please try again. You are mistaken nearly completely about your perceptions of what happened.

You are misinformed about nearly everything you posted above. There was lots of identifiable plane debris recovered from the crashes.

Obwon - you are probably too young to have flown much, but I have. I used to fly for business a lot before 9/11. Flight schedules are published, public documents. I used to carry a book in my briefcase which had all the world's flight schedules in it. In this book were AA 11, UA 93, AA 77 and UA 175. Those were real flights. Every flight was published, booked by travel agents using SABRE, catered, crewed, fueled up and was boarded by real passengers with real names, real jobs and real families back home. The flights taxied and took off. They were tracked by RADAR until they crashed. In 2 cases (IIRC), the black box data was recovered and confirmed the different piloting style of the hijackers vs. real pilots. This is the real world. Your thoughts are fantasy.

 

[beachnut]

Hahaha... Seems many of you, who are against the NPT, l are using the same bogus evidence that has already been admitted to be false. In any event, as far as plane debris, you have only to read the official stories answer, that the planes either vaporized or atomized on impact. That tells you that there wasn't any debris. The landing gear and the engine part, were both admitted to be not from either WTC plane.

How's that? Get it? The engine shown streaming from the tower trailing fire, which lands on Church street Near Murry, and is found there smoking! Is reported to have bounced off a car and left a hole in the street, is the wrong size engine for 767 and the FBI, NTSB admits that it did not come from either plane! Confirmed by the found part number! So what was it doing on Murry st. smoking, no less, if it didn't come on a skyjacked plane? But hey, that tells you something, if it's planted, which it is, then why plant it and call into question the 911 events? The answer, of course. is it has to be planted, because there are no planes.

Like I said, either you have planes, in which case you don't need or want false evidence around, or you don't have any planes, in which case the more false evidence the merrier, since it can hurt any worse than the truth.

And yes, of the 19 skyjackers 9 were found alive and one died a year before the 911 attacks. Yet they are not only listed as the skyjackers, one and all, but Bin Laden speaks highly of one of them, who was never involved!

Oh yes! And then you want to argue that that yellow pour that comes streaming out of the building is melted aluminum, but energy of the crash can only raise the temperature of the craft by 58 degrees f. The jet fuel is disbursed when it burns and cannot inject it's energy into the metal of the aircraft, nor does it burn hot enough to melt it. So you need another source for that yellow pour, the one you've been using doesn't get it.

Trying to say there was confusion about the skyjackers is a no go! The FBI published, not only the names, but their pictures and histories. So now you have only 9 possible skyjackers to populate 4 planes. While "the calls from the planes" claim that each plane had between 4 and 5 skyjackers on board. Do you mean to tell us that OBL couldn't find 19 Islamic Fundamentalist terrorist to carry out his planned attacks? Well, that's pretty much in line with his original claim that he had nothing to do with these attacks. At least that was the story before the fake videos of him claiming success etc., began being found in the hills of Afghanistan. Go figure, eh?

You spew lies. How can you be wrong on all the facts and evidence?

The engine is from a 767, it was still hot.

Oh, you are pretending to be a 911 truther liar. Sorry.