Justin39640
Illuminator
- Joined
- May 22, 2009
- Messages
- 4,202
did you choke on the dust you blew off this old book?
TAM![]()
(cough cough)
10 years later you think someone would do a little reading other than what other "truth"ers post on moronic websites
did you choke on the dust you blew off this old book?
TAM![]()
(My Bolding)The theory of chaos has it that feedback, itself, is a contributor to chaos. Percival tells us that “oscillating systems become chaotic because they possess an element of ‘feedback.’” That element “generates complex dynamics in simple systems.” Hall, herself, broadens our understanding. Her summation is that “Chaos also seems to be responsible for maintaining order in the natural world. Feedback mechanisms not only introduce flexibility into living systems, sustaining delicate dynamical balances, but also promote nature’s propensity for self-organization.” And it is, metaphorically, precisely on this point of self-organization that events of 9-11 turned, there was little feedback and some of that which did exist was counter-productive, for example the circular reporting of the crash of AA 77.
As many of you know, I have created a NORAD document which, I humbly feel, pretty much buries any "NORAD stand down" argument.
Um, yes, I have a tendency to ressurect old threads.
For anyone not knowing (like me until yerterday), former 9/11 Commissioner Miles Kara is running a blog since June 2009, and he links this thread in his article on wargames.
It´s a useful blog. Kara provides concise explanations of the mystery plane and the role of TSD tracking of planes on 9/11.
Following Shenons book, Miles Kara was one of the few guys from John Farmers team who didn´t think of NORAD as a bunch of liars.
Excellent, progge. Lots of interesting info there! Be sure to PM this to gumboot, who will be muchly interested.
Finally, concerning Clarke, he conflates terms. See my link to Andrew Burfeld’s work, posting as Gumboot. He explains quite thoroughly and accurately what was ongoing.
Andrew Burfeld’s rundown (he is Gumboot in the blog world) is accurate and the best existing source on the web. I link to it in my article. I understand from my cousin who follows the blog world that the fact that I happened to reference a JREF posting is suspect. I only did that because Burfeld’s posting is the most available version of his work. Consider him the source, not JREF.
But now that I've broken my silence and am in here yakking - I'm Seriously not trying to JAQ off here, these are my best questions freely offered to be killed for good.
As someone who once believed in NORAD not-quite-stand-down-but-something-askew theories, I always did find the war games occuring that day as rather odd coincidences. VG and IIIRC Global Guardian at least are known to be happening, perhaps Northern Vigilance too. The level of suspicion I invested was out of whack, but in your opinion of wargame scheduling, is this unusual to have that many on a given day and how unusual? Are we way crazy for ever thinking that odd, and what are the odds? (on any given day...)
Also, on ADIZ and domestic response over continental airspace, I never did figure out what lead pilot Duff meant about suiting up to scramble when he heard a trans-continental flight was hijacked. Most agree there was no normal protocol for such a scramble, only if incoming off the oceans. So did he just misremember for dramatic effect or what?
I think on first blush it's reasonable to arch the eyebrows at several major air defense exercises occurring right when 9/11 was happening. But there's a few factors to take into account.
That does, however, still leave two major exercises, occurring at the same time, and that might raise suspicion, but if you look a bit closer, you'll see why it's a non issue. The clue is in the name, and there's a third exercise that's seldom mentioned, called Apollo Guardian, and that should give away the clue. They're all called Guardian.
That's because they're all part of the same exercise. Guardian is a multi-agency "doomsday" exercise. In the event of a major nuclear attack multiple US DOD agencies have to cooperate to protect the US, and so they exercise together, and of course each have their own nicknames for their part of the exercise.
<snip> So, with regards the Guardian exercises, "Vigilant" was NORAD, "Global" was US Strategic Command, and "Apollo" was US Space Command.
In that regard it was not suspicious or noteworthy that these exercises occurred together, but both normal and necessary.

Also to clarify, there was a standard protocol for a trans-continental hijacking scramble, but it was slow and ungainly, and it wasn't successful on 9/11 because the key link in the chain was missing (hijack coordinator at FAA headquarters).
Another missing link at FAA I didn't even know about? With a verifiable effect on defenses? Dangit man, are you trying to sabotage my site destruction plans? Is this a prank joke?
This comes from Mike Ruppert, who quotes a report from NORAD that ends:I am having a discussion with a truther and a point he made was about radar inserts to be used as part of the Vigilant Guardian exercise. He commented that these would have confused FAA Controllers while they were looking for the lost aircraft.
The Federal Aviation Administration has evidence of a hijacking and is asking for NORAD support. This is not part of the exercise.
In a flash, Operation Northern Vigilance is called off. Any simulated information, what's known as an "inject," is purged from the screens".
2) I didn't actually read anywhere that the exercise would include inserts of any kind on FAA radar screens. Especially not working ATC screens in all the control areas in the North East. Certainly none of the reports I have seen suggest that FAA controllers saw any radar targets with or without IFF tags for any aircraft that didn't exist.
Am I right? Anywhere I can point to supporting this?
It's perhaps the one aspect of 9/11 that bugs me the most, and the only remotely compelling argument for LIHOP. Having said that, when the FBI interviewed FAA staff at HQ they found that virtually no one there had any clue what anyone was supposed to do during a hijacking. The "hijack coordinator" was not a specific role, but rather one of the many duties that the head of security had.
The result being, if no one in the building realises that the head of security is supposed to handle a hijacking, when the head of security goes on holiday no one is going to step up to fill that role. So when a hijacking occurs, nothing happens.
On another note, the person who was head of security at the FAA on 9/11 quietly left that job soon after. I can't help but wonder if some people in fact did lose their jobs after 9/11, just without much of a fanfare reaching the public.
John Farmer, 9/11 Commission senior counsel, explains how the truth of 9/11 was obfuscated by a false version of events that the government presented to Congress, the 9/11 Commission, and the media. Drawing on newly released records, Farmer gives a comprehensive account of the events of that day in The Ground Truth: The Untold Story of an America Under Attack on 9/11