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The nephilim

Dustin Kesselberg said:
Probably a race of giants did exist several thousand years ago. Most likely their bones were made of a quickly degrading material that does not fossilize and thus there is no evidence they ever existed.
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Are you sure you mean probably?

'm simply saying that we rely on Fossils too much to tell us about ancient times. It's more than possible that a race of giant beings existed but who's bones were made out of quickly degrading material that could not fossilize
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Hmm, still a bit too sure here.

We have no idea if some creatures existed in ancient or prehistoric times who never fossilized for one reaosn or another.
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Well, you're moving in the right direction at least :rolleyes: .

Do you know of anything else that probably existed that we have no evidence for? I'll start a list, if you like.
 
Thirded.
The fossil register -as well as some basic biology knoweledge- can be used to inferr if a given creature could or not have existed in this planet.

Example:
Terrestrial vertebrates with six limbs, such as some dragon conceptions (four legs plus a pair of wings) never existed. Nothing in the fossil records supports their existence. No such creatures exist nowdays, not even with vestigial third pair of limbs.

Lets check, for example, some creatures from Greek mythology:
Harpyes-like animals never existed
Gorgon-like animals never existed
Hydra-like animals never existed

Giants with bones that can not suffer the proccess of fossilization never existed. BTW, such material would be?
 
Dustin Kesselberg said:
We have no idea if some creatures existed in ancient or prehistoric times who never fossilized for one reaosn or another. We should never concluded that something NEVER existed simply because there is no evidence it ever existed. Do you disagree with that?
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You're invoking the oft-used:

"Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."

It's also not evidence of evidence. This oh-so-cute statement so beloved by the religious and conspiracy-minded means absolutely nothing. The only thing that counts when you're whittling down the nearly-infinite "Things That Could/Would/Should Be" list is hard evidence.
 
Dustin Kesselberg said:
I'm simply saying that we rely on Fossils too much to tell us about ancient times. It's more than possible that a race of giant beings existed but who's bones were made out of quickly degrading material that could not fossilize and so we have no signs of them. There have been tales of Giants from all societies and it's no surprise. The Nephilim probably did exist.
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Sure, but just for the sake of argument, what was that quickly degrading material? Could you reference another large mega fauna like it? Are they related to humans?

You do realize that the window for preservation of bones and wood is around 14,000 without them being fossilized, even longer in just the right arid conditions.

Did this race of giants exist in the last 14,000 years? And what was their bone structure made of, it must have been very hard to support their weight, unless they were really skinny.

Has any other evidence been found for their existence, like houses or tools?
 
Dustin Kesselberg said:
We have no idea if some creatures existed in ancient or prehistoric times who never fossilized for one reaosn or another. We should never concluded that something NEVER existed simply because there is no evidence it ever existed. Do you disagree with that?
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It depends upon the time frame and the numbers of the critters in question.

Fossilization events are rather scarce and hard to come by, usually river deposition is the best way. Although swamps do a good job.

There is evidence outside of traditional fossilization, peat bogs and tar pits come to mind where preservation may extend to fossilization through mineralization of bones but not necessarily. Peat bogs, caves and glaciers are a really good way to preserve things if the conditions occur properly.

Yet, if there was a really small population that was not widespread then it is possible for a species to arise and no preservation to occur.

However, the stories of giants (except for the Duatha D'ann, who became smaller after becoming less dominant, they became ants) would have required human contact for the stories to be transmitted, archaic homo sapiens sapiens is about 150-60,000 years old, truly 60 or less for gracile homo sapiens sapiens. Their bones have been found unfossilized in several situations in dry caves.

So the outside window for the existence of giants and humans to co-exist if 60,000 years. We have stone tools made by gracile homo sapiens from that time period.

Why haven't any remains of the giants been preserved from that time period, if normal bones and tools can be preserved, without fossilization, from that time period?
 
Dustin Kesselberg said:
Probably a race of giants did exist several thousand years ago. Most likely their bones were made of a quickly degrading material that does not fossilize and thus there is no evidence they ever existed.
Click to expand...
Hoss, they find fossils of jellyfish. You know? Like, no bones at all? Just a gelatinous blob? Forget the "bones that quickly degrade" theory.

Beanbag
 
Correa Neto said:
Thirded.
The fossil register -as well as some basic biology knoweledge- can be used to inferr if a given creature could or not have existed in this planet.

Example:
Terrestrial vertebrates with six limbs, such as some dragon conceptions (four legs plus a pair of wings) never existed. Nothing in the fossil records supports their existence. No such creatures exist nowdays, not even with vestigial third pair of limbs.

Lets check, for example, some creatures from Greek mythology:
Harpyes-like animals never existed
Gorgon-like animals never existed
Hydra-like animals never existed

Giants with bones that can not suffer the proccess of fossilization never existed. BTW, such material would be?
Click to expand...

You don't know that either. What % of living creatures were fossilized? What % of those that were fossilized have we discovered? There could have been entire phylogenic trees that we don't know about simply because they either never fossilized or we haven't yet found their fossils.. Monkeys with 8 arms and 2 heads or Giants who were birthed from Angels and Men.
 
Dancing David said:
Sure, but just for the sake of argument, what was that quickly degrading material? Could you reference another large mega fauna like it? Are they related to humans?
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According to the Bible they're half human.

Dancing David said:
You do realize that the window for preservation of bones and wood is around 14,000 without them being fossilized, even longer in just the right arid conditions.
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I didn't realize that.

Dancing David said:
Did this race of giants exist in the last 14,000 years? And what was their bone structure made of, it must have been very hard to support their weight, unless they were really skinny.
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How could I know what their bone structure was made of if I don't have their bones?

Dancing David said:
Has any other evidence been found for their existence, like houses or tools?
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No.
 
Dustin Kesselberg said:
You don't know that either. What % of living creatures were fossilized? What % of those that were fossilized have we discovered? There could have been entire phylogenic trees that we don't know about simply because they either never fossilized or we haven't yet found their fossils.. Monkeys with 8 arms and 2 heads or Giants who were birthed from Angels and Men.
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Still pretending to be a scientician, Dustin ol' son? It never stops being funny.

The thing is, you're correct in that a tiny percentage of all living individuals have been fossilized. A small section of all life forms are represented by fossils, and we can infer from those a sizeable percentage of other species which probably occured in a diverse ecosystem. There still remains the big 'unknown' fraction. So...how do we know giant cephalopods never walked the earth claiming dominion?

We don't. But that's not how science works. We don't label the speculative as 'probable' until we have due cause, such as an observation that can't be rationalised by a more reasonable inference. Then it can accrue evidence until we deem it to be a probable claim.

Walking humanoid giants which leave no evidence are like Sagan's invisible flying dragon. One can never claim 100% that it doesn't exist, yet that in no way confers any evidence to supporting it being likely to exist, any more than any other wild speculation.

So, the false part of your claim is in the use of the word 'probable'. 'Possible' is more correct, but even still it is a claim that has no weight until there is due cause to consider it further. Which there isn't.

Athon
 
Dustin Kesselberg said:
Probably a race of giants did exist several thousand years ago. Most likely their bones were made of a quickly degrading material that does not fossilize and thus there is no evidence they ever existed.
Click to expand...
I've bolded the problem words.

If you had written We can not be certain that a race of giants did not exist... you would merely have been teased, rather than ridiculed.

You are (a) making claims based on no evidence at all, and then (b) to support those claims, making further claims based on no evidence at all. That might be the keystone of theology, but it will get you nowhere in the real world.
 
athon said:
Still pretending to be a scientician, Dustin ol' son? It never stops being funny.

The thing is, you're correct in that a tiny percentage of all living individuals have been fossilized. A small section of all life forms are represented by fossils, and we can infer from those a sizeable percentage of other species which probably occured in a diverse ecosystem. There still remains the big 'unknown' fraction. So...how do we know giant cephalopods never walked the earth claiming dominion?

We don't. But that's not how science works. We don't label the speculative as 'probable' until we have due cause, such as an observation that can't be rationalised by a more reasonable inference. Then it can accrue evidence until we deem it to be a probable claim.

Walking humanoid giants which leave no evidence are like Sagan's invisible flying dragon. One can never claim 100% that it doesn't exist, yet that in no way confers any evidence to supporting it being likely to exist, any more than any other wild speculation.

So, the false part of your claim is in the use of the word 'probable'. 'Possible' is more correct, but even still it is a claim that has no weight until there is due cause to consider it further. Which there isn't.

Athon
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Since when was Carl Sagan's invisible dragon able to fly?
 
PixyMisa said:
I've bolded the problem words.

If you had written We can not be certain that a race of giants did not exist... you would merely have been teased, rather than ridiculed.

You are (a) making claims based on no evidence at all, and then (b) to support those claims, making further claims based on no evidence at all. That might be the keystone of theology, but it will get you nowhere in the real world.
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I've stopped taking your posts seriously several days ago after your incessant circular arguments and baseless accusations. Ever wonder why I've stopped responding to you? Save your energy and go read a book instead of posting in my threads.
 
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