The Nazi Pope Is A Dope

[grunion]

Well, it seems the Hitler Youth thing wasn't a "fling" attributable to his "misspent youth" after all.

Apparently his support for the extended Latin Mass with its call for conversion of the Jews just wasn't enough for that crotchety old geezer some call Pope to prove his anti-semitic mettle to the more conservative Roman Catholics who have protested some of the "liberalizing" reforms of the Second Vatican Council. Nope.

Now we see he strives to kiss and make up with the Society Of Saint Pius X by reversing the excommunication of some of its more, ahem, "traditionalist" members, including the anti-semitic and 9/11 revisionist bishop Richard Williamson. Williamson has embraced the Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion as an important historical document, has claimed that the gas chambers were a fiction and the Holocaust was a hoax, and that the 9/11 attack was a conspiracy by Israel and the U.S.

Is this really going to grow his support? Or is he willing to take the hit to the Church's ever-shrinking reputation in the hopes of promoting his anti-semitic agenda?

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Has Williamson renounced his old pro-Nazi stance? If so, well, forgiveness is a big part of Christianity, you know.

 

[grunion]

No, Williamson goes on denying the Holocaust and promoting conspiracy theories to anyone who will give him the time of day. Doesn't one have to ask for forgiveness in order to receive it?

 

[ParrotPirate]

Why do people listen to anything the Pope says? How can you take a guy seriously when he's wearing a silly hat and a dress? Things like this are found out,and they still can't figure out why there are fewer believers every year.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Why do people listen to anything the Pope says? How can you take a guy seriously when he's wearing a silly hat and a dress? Things like this are found out,and they still can't figure out why there are fewer believers every year.

Because Jesus made a joke in Greek (a language he probably did not know) about Peter. And, as we all know, Peter was the first Pope and created the R C Church as God's only true Church on Earth.

Or something like that.

 

[Thunder]

calling him a "Nazi Pope" is going a little too far, don't ya think?

I dont think Benedict wants to put Jews in gas chambers and conquer Poland for Lebensraum.

 

[grunion]

Fair enough. How about "ex-Nazi and still anti-semitic Pope" then?

 

[Rasmus]

conversion of the Jews

Why is that seen as such a bad thing?

They are not Catholics, and therefore they are destined to hell, right?

The only ethical thing for a catholic to do, then, is trying to convert them, just like they try to convert everybody else who isn't catholic.

So, as long as conversion as such is accepted, it's just outright silly to assume that attempts to convert jews specifically would be bad.

 

[Elizabeth I]

Why is that seen as such a bad thing?

They are not Catholics, and therefore they are destined to hell, right?

The only ethical thing for a catholic to do, then, is trying to convert them, just like they try to convert everybody else who isn't catholic.

So, as long as conversion as such is accepted, it's just outright silly to assume that attempts to convert jews specifically would be bad.

Well, past efforts by the RC Church to "convert Jews specifically" weren't exactly painless.

 

[grunion]

Ah, the Spanish Inquisition, what a bunch of humanitarians.

 

[Rasmus]

Well, past efforts by the RC Church to "convert Jews specifically" weren't exactly painless.

Yes, I know.

But is there a reasonable argument as to why a believer should not try to convert Jews just as they try with everyone else?

They are basically expected to be polite, but in order to be polite they would have to admit that they might be wrong.

How can anyone seriously expect a religion to behave as if they were wrong? They might as well close shop.

(And in this case, accepting that they might be wrong is the same as admitting that they are plain wrong elsewhere.)

 

[Thunder]

Listen folks, Jews thank God every day that they were not born Gentiles, slaves, or women. So if Catholics pray for the conversion of Jews, its not that big a deal.

Preaching to the world and seeking to bring them to Christ is part of the Christian mantra. We can't expect them to give up being Christian just because it bugs us.

Should non-Jews demand that Jews stop thanking God they were not born Gentiles?

 

[TsarBomba]

Not that I am a big fan of His Holiness, but I don't think that anti-semitisim or holocaust (or maybe I should be uber hip and call the holocaust by its Hebrew word Shoah) denial are grounds for excommunication. These four bishops (including Williamson) were excommunicated for operating outside of the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. They have now agreed to follow the Pope's dictates and operate under the authority of the central church bureaucracy. Thus, they have agreed to resolve the initial disagreement that led to their excommunication in the first place, which, again, had nothing to do with extraneous views relating to Jews or the Shoah. I think that the implication that the un-excommunication constitutes an acceptance of anti-semitisim is a little far fetched.

 

[Rasmus]

Not that I am a big fan of His Holiness, but I don't think that anti-semitisim or holocaust (or maybe I should be uber hip and call the holocaust by its Hebrew word Shoah) denial are grounds for excommunication. These four bishops (including Williamson) were excommunicated for operating outside of the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. They have now agreed to follow the Pope's dictates and operate under the authority of the central church bureaucracy. Thus, they have agreed to resolve the initial disagreement that led to their excommunication in the first place, which, again, had nothing to do with extraneous views relating to Jews or the Shoah. I think that the implication that the un-excommunication constitutes an acceptance of anti-semitisim is a little far fetched.

Indeed,

so we just have to settle for pointing out what types of things are worthy to be punished with excommunication and which aren't ...

 

[TsarBomba]

Indeed,

so we just have to settle for pointing out what types of things are worthy to be punished with excommunication and which aren't ...

I'm just pointing out what they actually did. I couldn't care less what things are worthy of excommunication from the Catholic church and what are not.

 

[grunion]

Not far fetched at all. Rather near fetched I think.

Since the Second Vatican Council in the late 1960's the RCC realized it needed to liberalize its public image and took a number of steps towards tolerance. They stopped explicitly blaming the Jews for the crucifuxion of christ, changed the Mass to remove the calls for conversion and a number of other steps. John Paul III attempted to continue the liberalization in the face of declining enrollment in the priesthood. But the corruption and cover-ups that plagued the Church during his reign were too much to handle, giving the "traditionalists" more sway in the current Pope. He proceded to cater to the more extremest elements within the Church, the latest being this move.

True, the move to reverse the excommunication is not to explicitly embrace holocaust denial by this ex-Nazi pope. It is to grow the stength of the extremists within the church in an attempt to make himself appear moderate. At least Ratzenberger disavowed his Hitler Youth past, so he isn't an active denialist, thus a moderate. The Society For Saint Pius X has gained legitimacy, and Williamson now has license to preach his brand of sick denialism countenanced by the church.

 

[Father Dagon]

Firstly a lesson in german. Translate "Pimpf war jeder" into english.

Secondly, it doesn't have to be communism/fascism/national socialism to be unbearable. Yes, the SSPX are creeps with nasty bedfellows. But if there was no trace of racism and antisemitism among them, would they be "kosher" then? Hardly.

 

[LarianLeQuella]

Why do people listen to anything the Pope says? How can you take a guy seriously when he's wearing a silly hat and a dress? Things like this are found out,and they still can't figure out why there are fewer believers every year.

Who? Darth Benedict?

 

[Rasmus]

How can you take a guy seriously when he's wearing a silly hat and a dress?

Now, now, now .... let's try to not be judgemental. Wearing a silly hat and dress doesn't make the pope silly.

It's the superstitious and outrageous believes that make him silly.

 

[ravdin]

I don't care. Ratzinger is not endorsing Holocaust denial by lifting the excommunication.