The mysterious "high level freemasons"

[LightinDarkness]

It becomes an adjective in post 9

My favorite part of this particular woo conspiracy...


My 9 year old nephew speaks like this.

I am sorry your intellectually incapable of understanding humor. My 3 year old cat also routinely fails to understand humor.

 

[Oliver]

I am sorry your intellectually incapable of understanding humor. My 3 year old cat also routinely fails to understand humor.

So did you contact Checkmite, the JREF-Freemason, yet to tell
him about this thread?

 

[Old Bob]

Is this a joke?

First: I live in Germany and the vast majority thinks that secret societies
are BS. Secondly, the Logo is an official Obama Campaign Logo, namely
"Rebublicans for Obama". Concerning the rest of your post: I have no Idea
what you are talking about. Living dead? 3-11-ens??? Masonic Sun God
Rituals?????

But as I said earlier. We actually have a member who is a Freemason,
you may like to ask him, if I only could remember his Nick in here...

Oliver, too much to explain, can you study up on Masons, lots on the net. All the numbers have a name eg "The Great Architect" is at the 32 level (Obama is a 32 % Mason) while 30% is called "The Kadosch" Every Mason temple has mock pillars from Solomon's Temple, how Jewish is that. The logo you chose reeks of Mason symbol. As for the Sun God Worship bit have a look at the Aus. Army logo and the Catholic Church and what about the Jap. rising sun. As for 11 the twin towers come to mind at 11 0 story's high, then we have remembrance day held on the 11of 11 month at 11 o'clock. All the obelisks are multi 11 usually in feet. Then we can start on ley lines.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Oliver, too much to explain, can you study up on Masons, lots on the net. All the numbers have a name eg "The Great Architect" is at the 32 level (Obama is a 32 % Mason) while 30% is called "The Kadosch" Every Mason temple has mock pillars from Solomon's Temple, how Jewish is that. The logo you chose reeks of Mason symbol. As for the Sun God Worship bit have a look at the Aus. Army logo and the Catholic Church and what about the Jap. rising sun. As for 11 the twin towers come to mind at 11 0 story's high, then we have remembrance day held on the 11of 11 month at 11 o'clock. All the obelisks are multi 11 usually in feet. Then we can start on ley lines.

Ahem.

WHAT?!?!?!?!

Betcha didn't know Capt. Sisko was a Master Mason. The Starfleet symbol is Masonic, after all.

 

[Mashuna]

Obama is a 32 % Mason

It's his left leg and right arm that are Masons. The other 68% of Obama is a Stonecutter.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

The rising sun symbolism in Japanese history isn't related to freemasonry. Not even going to look it up. Seriously. I am breaking the rules of skepticism here, because honestly there are ideas and statements so far removed from reality that they actually debunk themselves.

If you have proof of this symbolism coming from freemasonry presented it, but that proof isn't going to be accepted if it comes in the..."well Masons have sun symbolism, and the Japanese have sun symbolism; so therefore..." nope it doesn't work that way. The reason why every civilization has sun symbolism is because it is a really bright big thing up in the sky that try as they may they just couldn't help but to notice.

Oh yeah...and ley lines don't exist.

 

[Alex Libman]

Not all Italians are in the mafia. Not all Jews are Zionists. Not all masons know that their order is being manipulated by Angelina Jolie who is a 10,000-year-old fungus-like creature from Planet d'Qhrf. Go figure.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Not all Italians are in the mafia. Not all Jews are Zionists. Not all masons know that their order is being manipulated by Angelina Jolie who is a 10,000-year-old fungus-like creature from Planet d'Qhrf. Go figure.

In that case, I'd like to engage in some fungiality.


...oh, and Old Bob - your latest zinger just earned you a Stundie Nomination. And no, that isn't a secret Masonic ritual.

 

[Liszt]

Could it be that the guy was illegitimately charged with something due to freemason hysteria? The assumption by news articles that anytime freemasons work together to do something it must be because of their masonic membership has been wrong in every case I've ever seen.

Not at all - Ken Noye is one of the most famous criminals in the UK

Kenneth James Noye (born 24 May 1947) is a British criminal who was convicted of the 1996 murder of Stephen Cameron.

Noye was involved in laundering the proceeds of the Brinks Mat robbery in 1983. While he was being investigated for his part in the robbery, he stabbed to death a police officer (John Fordham) who was observing Noye from the grounds of his home. Noye was acquitted of murder on the grounds of self-defence, but was sentenced to 14 years in prison in 1986 for handling stolen gold. He was released from prison in 1994, having served 8 years of his sentence.

 

[Liszt]

I am sorry your intellectually incapable of understanding humor. My 3 year old cat also routinely fails to understand humor.

making up words is not my idea of humour. No one uses baby talk any more -that meme has long since died.

 

[Uncle Vanya]

for the Sun God Worship bit have a look at the Aus. Army logo and the Catholic Church and what about the Jap. rising sun.

Please answer the following question for me:

What do the following have in common: The Australian (or Austrian, not sure) Army, the Catholic Church and Japan?

a) They are all organizations (countries) that people are members (citizens) of.
b) Something to do with Masonry
c) Sun God worship?
d) lolwut?

 

[GreNME]

By the way, I wasn't defensive. However, I just found your statement kind of general and was seeking explinations for them..which you provided. Thanks

Hey, no problem. I totally understand the desire for clarification, and while a more full discussion on our individual impressions of the group might be interesting I think we're both in agreement that not only are conspiracy theories about the Masons pure bunk, but the bases for those conspiracy theories are bunk as well. I was merely offering a glimpse into the point of view that most CT-ists I've met over the years have given me as to their reasoning (which I find unconvincing).

[side note]

Also, I would note a student of religion myself that the correlates you may see between LDS or any other religion are merely correlations that lack any real causation mechanism. Freemasonry is I think rather unique in its aims and methods, but I think the most closely related organizations that you could find meaningful correlations with would be things like Elks or Odd Fellows.

Well, that's a difficult subject for me to go into myself in terms of maximum verifiable confidence, mostly because the correlations as far as the LDS are concerned would have to do with things I'm not privy to witness due to lack of membership and unwillingness to obtain an unsanctioned recommend to find out myself. I'd rather chalk up any possible similarities to the social phenomenon of two organizational units having rubbed up against each other at some point (which they did) and just-so-happening to leave a bit of a mark from the friction. It's something pretty common in the Christian denominations from what I know, and not at all unnatural in terms of social influence or attitude migration-- it could start a few converts or mutual members passing ideas, and wind up being a lasting memetic ripple in the pond of consciousness.

[/side note]

Okay, I'm really done waxing figurative for now.

 

[Seanette]

Well, that's a difficult subject for me to go into myself in terms of maximum verifiable confidence, mostly because the correlations as far as the LDS are concerned would have to do with things I'm not privy to witness due to lack of membership and unwillingness to obtain an unsanctioned recommend to find out myself. I'd rather chalk up any possible similarities to the social phenomenon of two organizational units having rubbed up against each other at some point (which they did) and just-so-happening to leave a bit of a mark from the friction. It's something pretty common in the Christian denominations from what I know, and not at all unnatural in terms of social influence or attitude migration-- it could start a few converts or mutual members passing ideas, and wind up being a lasting memetic ripple in the pond of consciousness.[/side note]

I have the opposite verification problem, since I'm not a Mason (obviously, since I'm female ), but am LDS. It's my understanding (which I hope Bob will correct if I misstate anything) that Masonic ritual represents part of an ancient ceremony that was restored in part due to Joseph Smith's contact with Masonry (he and several other early members of the LDS church were Masons). That restored ceremony is now our Temple endowment.

I of course cannot confirm very much of this firsthand, lacking first-hand knowledge of Masonic ritual and having made covenants to not go into detail regarding Temple ordinances outside the Temple.

 

[GreNME]

I'd say we have the same verification problem, just on different sides of the line that we won't cross for ethical reasons. I have no problem with it, because I don't see the boogeymen that conspiracy theorists tend to claim are there.

 

[LightinDarkness]

making up words is not my idea of humour. No one uses baby talk any more -that meme has long since died.

I will let you know when I care about your opinion. Just because it seems to enrage you so much, I will continue to use woo to describe conspiracy theorists. Now, go away troll.

 

[LightinDarkness]

Oliver, too much to explain, can you study up on Masons, lots on the net. All the numbers have a name eg "The Great Architect" is at the 32 level (Obama is a 32 % Mason) while 30% is called "The Kadosch"

Bob, we all know you just pull this stuff out of your nether regions, but if you're going to continue to do that can you do me a favor and at least make it believable?

"The Great Architect" is never used in freemasonry. The term "Great Architect of the Universe" is a term that is used throughout as a reverential name for whatever God the individual mason believes in.

The names of the degrees are simply theatrical, and yet again, I must remind you that your obsession with the Scottish Rite degree displays you know nothing about freemasonry. The Scottish Rite is just ONE side order, but people like you obsess with it because it has "large numbers" that mystify you even though these numbers don't mean anything in terms of rank, authority, or power. The 32nd degree is styled Master or Price of the Royal Secret. The 30th degree changes depending on what jurisdiction you are, it can be Knight Kadosh or Grand Inspect or Knight of the Black and White Eagle.

Every Mason temple has mock pillars from Solomon's Temple, how Jewish is that. The logo you chose reeks of Mason symbol. As for the Sun God Worship bit have a look at the Aus. Army logo and the Catholic Church and what about the Jap. rising sun. As for 11 the twin towers come to mind at 11 0 story's high, then we have remembrance day held on the 11of 11 month at 11 o'clock. All the obelisks are multi 11 usually in feet. Then we can start on ley lines.

How does one mock pillars of a temple? Does one make fun of them or call them names? Hit them with sticks? As a SR mason I know such claims are simply not true and are conspiracy fantasy.

There is no Sun God worship, or worship of any God. Why is it the antis continually make this stuff up without even thinking about it - has it occurred to you that worshiping something means that I would definitely know it if I was doing it? How exactly can I worship something without even knowing about it?

 

[LightinDarkness]

Not at all - Ken Noye is one of the most famous criminals in the UK

And what evidence do you have that any of this has to do with freemasonry? Yet again, the same old trick of finding one mason of millions who does something wrong and trying to generalize.

And everything I can find in reference to this man, except freemasonrywatch (your source?) says WAS a mason. No longer.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Liszt, I'm just wondering if it's possible that someone can post here 745 times and have no idea what "woo" is.

 

[Checkmite]

Oliver, too much to explain, can you study up on Masons, lots on the net. All the numbers have a name eg "The Great Architect" is at the 32 level (Obama is a 32 % Mason) while 30% is called "The Kadosch" Every Mason temple has mock pillars from Solomon's Temple, how Jewish is that. The logo you chose reeks of Mason symbol. As for the Sun God Worship bit have a look at the Aus. Army logo and the Catholic Church and what about the Jap. rising sun. As for 11 the twin towers come to mind at 11 0 story's high, then we have remembrance day held on the 11of 11 month at 11 o'clock. All the obelisks are multi 11 usually in feet. Then we can start on ley lines.

Wow, all kinds of fun stuff here.

Firstly, yes, all degrees in Freemasonry have names. The first three degrees have the same names everywhere; however, all the rest of the degrees have different names, depending on where you are in the world, or even where you are in your country. For instance, the 32nd degree in the US is called "Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret" in the Northern Scottish Rite, and "Master of the Royal Secret" in the Southern. There is no degree of "Great Architect", because "Great Architect of the Universe" is the placeholder title for whichever Creator an individual Mason believes in, and you can't attain the degree of Creator. Also, the 30th degree is known as "Knight Kadosh", not simply "Kadosh", in the Southern jurisdiction only; in the Northern, that degree is called "Grand Inspector". Also, Barack Obama has never been a Mason. Neither was Bill Clinton, or either of the Bushes. In fact, the last US president to be a Mason was Gerald Ford.

Next, there's nothing wrong with or even necessarily "Jewish" about references to Solomon's temple; Freemasonry was originally founded by Christians and King Solomon is an important figure in Christianity (something about being mentioned in the Bible - I don't know). Also, there is nothing particularly "Masonic" about Oliver's avatar; neither do stylized elephants, the letter O, the upper half of the letter O, or a round arch with three stars on it have any Masonic significance whatsoever. It is true that the number "3" occurs often in Masonry, but the reason for this is predominantly Christian in nature; and in any case, just because Masonry uses 3 a lot does not mean that everything which uses 3 is Masonic. That's like saying that since Masonic lodges are typically carpeted, all carpets in all other buildings are Masonic references.

Next, the Australian Army, the Catholic Church, and the JapANESE "rising sun" are not Masonic bodies or entities. In fact, the Catholic Church technically forbids membership in Freemasonry. As for "11" bringing the twin towers to mind, I will not argue with that. Both the numbers 11 and 9 bring them to mind for me, since they were destroyed on 9/11. But neither of the numbers 9 or 11 are Masonically significant. Your "all the obelisks are multi 11" remark is ambiguous and nonsensical, so I cannot address it. And finally, there are no such things as ley lines.

Now, as for the OP:

I think the amount of conspiracy theorizing about Masonry stems from the fact that, it's true, there WERE and ARE many Masons who managed to become prominent figures in their various real-life disciplines. There are many, many more non-famous Masons, of course, but they don't matter; what matters to conspiracy theorists is that a bunch of famous people can be tied to one "thing" - a club, a restaurant, a point of view. And to conspiracy theorists, too many famous names in the same place simply cannot add up to anything good. They seem to think that when two or more supposedly "powerful" people get together, the only thing they could ever possibly want to talk about is power, and how to maintain it. I'm willing to bet a lot of people who think this way are projecting their own worldview - they're the kind of people who, when they see there happens to be only white people around right this moment, will think they can get away with telling racist jokes.

 

[Liszt]

And what evidence do you have that any of this has to do with freemasonry? Yet again, the same old trick of finding one mason of millions who does something wrong and trying to generalize.

And everything I can find in reference to this man, except freemasonrywatch (your source?) says WAS a mason. No longer.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/noyes-tangled-web-of-corruption-721292.html

In the late 70s Noye joined the Hammersmith Freeemasons' Lodge in west London. He was proposed and seconded by two police officers. He eventually rose to be the master of the lodge with the support of the membership of which the police made up a sizeable proportion. Other masons included dealers in gold and other precious metals. A little while later Noye was being helped out of an arrest by a detective who was a fellow mason.

And, for the record, I'm a big fan of freemasons. Most of the great composers, mathematicians and politicians have been masons. So are many of my family. I'm not, but only because I live in a strange area. I did crash a Masonic christmas party once though, and they didn't even mind.


(edit - and I don't think there is a Masonic conspiracy in the slightest. They can barely organise a dinner party)