The Missiles at Ground Zero

[VespaGuy]

After WTC 7 was pulled the military was brought in to secure the area. WTC 7 was given priority for the cleanup. Those who trucked away the remain of course would know which military base the material was taken to. If some files were destroyed in the CD of WTC 7 then that would not be a problem. The purpose of the CD was to secure the sensitive information.

Magz, you are clearly making this up as you go. You'll paint yourself into a corner again, abandon the thread, and then return again igoring the previous questions.

Here's something you've yet to explain. You claim that a missle struck seconds after the plane hit the tower. Can you please explain how (according to you) only one of the tens of thousands of folks who were looking at the sky at that time did not see this missle?

 

[Kiwiwriter]

Of course!

So the files and hard disks will be easily distinguish from the files and hard disks belonging to the other organisations in the building? They'll be easy to get out of the rubble of the building? It'll be easy to take them away to a secret location, presumably by only allowing security personnel to work on the WTC7 rubble pile? Dropping a burning building on them isn't going to damage or destroy them?

If it was safe enough to send a demolition team in (which nobody saw), why not just send a team in to take the files out? Why not send firefighters in to fight the fire?

Lastly, do you really believe that the government would keep the only copies of secret files in a commercially leased and shared office building in New York?

Better yet, after the building has been blasted to pieces, how are these experts going to tell which disks lying in the rubble are the secret disks? Oh, yeah, they're the disks marked "Secret."

And of course, when a 47-story building is blown up, no damage whatsoever would happen to computer disks and paper files, of course. They can withstand anything. People may die, buildings may fall, but memos are forever.

 

[CurtC]

It is a bird.

Throughly debunked here: http://www.inlex.net/bluemonk/nonsense/index.html

The guy who did that web site is the JREFer Blue Monk. He was a very active participant in the Carlos/latinjral thread from hell, althought I don't think I've seen him in the Conspiracy Theories sub-forum.

MaGZ, please read the pages at that site, and just see if you can maintain your idea that it's not a bird.

 

[JimBenArm]

The national security team had to pull the building for two reasons. Their purpose was to secure information not to steal it.

First, the building was damaged (southwest corner) and would have fallen toward its weakest point eventually. This would have endangered the rescue teams efforts where the other WTC buildings once stood.

Second, they had to have control of the sensitive information that was in WTC 7.

There was secure information in WTC7? And they didn't have control of it? So they had to demo the building?

Is this really what you think? REALLY? REALLY??

The files and hard drives would be recovered after a CD? There would have been something to recover?

Wow. Just when you think they are as "out there" as they can go, they go farther.

Man, oh, man, you live in a very special world, don't you?

 

[MaGZ]

Was Tom Clancy there taking notes?

So you're saying that they blew up the building to protect sensitive information? By "protect" do you mean "destroy"? I'm lost on your hypothesis.

WTC 7 was not blown up. It was brought down into a neat pile. From there they had control of all the sensitive information in the pile as long as they had military security in the area and were able to transport the remains of the building to a military base.

 

[JimBenArm]

WTC 7 was not blown up. It was brought down into a neat pile. From there they had control of all the sensitive information in the pile as long as they had military security in the area and were able to transport the remains of the building to a military base.

Stop, you're killing me!

 

[MaGZ]

MaGZ you have an interesting concept of what constitutes 'evidence'.

Hint: conjecture is not evidence. Your whole theory relies on the WTC collapse being mysterious. Our position, and the one held by the vast majority of experts world-wide, is that the collapse although unusual was not mysterious.

You believe the collapse was mysterious because you HAVE TO in order for your theory to even have a minuscule chance. I can see why you don't want to let go of that.

We are of course in agreement in the collapse of the Twin Towers. WTC 7 appears by its fall to be a controlled demolition. The building’s remains gives us clues. If the building fell on its own–which it probably would at some time–the north and east sides would remain standing for at lease a few stories. The entire building fell upon itself in what appeared to be a classic control demolition.

 

[JimBenArm]

We are of course in agreement in the collapse of the Twin Towers. WTC 7 appears by its fall to be a controlled demolition. The building’s remains gives us clues. If the building fell on its own–which it probably would at some time–the north and east sides would remain standing for at lease a few stories. The entire building fell upon itself in what appeared to be a classic control demolition.

I highlighted the relevent part for you.

Get a clue.

 

[MaGZ]

Magz, you are clearly making this up as you go. You'll paint yourself into a corner again, abandon the thread, and then return again igoring the previous questions.

Here's something you've yet to explain. You claim that a missle struck seconds after the plane hit the tower. Can you please explain how (according to you) only one of the tens of thousands of folks who were looking at the sky at that time did not see this missle?

More than one saw the missile.

Here are some suportive links to the missile theory

Response from Otis Air National Guard Base:

"Profile: Otis Air National Guard Base," cooperativeresearch.org
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/e...nal_guard_base
"Otis Fighters Scramble to New York; Conflicting Accounts of Urgency and Destination," cooperativeresearch.org
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/c...852otistakeoff

Newark NJ air traffic controller, Bob Varcapade, said the fighters were over New York City moments after the second plane crashed in to WTC 2.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14754701/

Film of missile taken by Gedeon Naudet at the corner of Broadway and Vesey Street.
http://www.public-action.com/911/psy.../3/flash91.htm

Reporter tells CNN some saw a missile.

Quote:
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jim, I don't know whether we've confirmed that this was an aircraft, or to be more specific, some people said they thought they saw a missile. I don't know how people could differentiate, but we might keep open the possibility that this was a missile attack on these buildings.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../11/bn.01.html

Mysterious explosion and white cloud at 9:04 am:
http://911studies.com/911photostudies119.htm

Unexplained 9/11 Explosion at WTC Complex," by Christopher Bollyn, American Free Press, July 10, 2004.
http://www.thepowerhour.com/911_anal...-explosion.htm

Eyewitnesses to WTC 7 missile hit.

Quote:
After the initial blast, Housing Authority worker Barry Jennings, 46, reported to a command center on the 23rd floor of 7 World Trade Center. He was with Michael Hess, the city's corporation counsel, when they felt and heard another explosion. First calling for help, they scrambled downstairs to the lobby, or what was left of it. "I looked around, the lobby was gone. It looked like hell," Jennings said.
http://www.record-eagle.com/2001/sep/11scene.htm

NIST diagram of damage area on the 14th floor of WTC 7
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/files/wtc7damage.jpg

 

[Hal Bidlack]

Magz,

I am a career military officer, retired in 2006. I was in the Pentagon when the plane hit on 9/11, had to do things, see things, that were most unpleasant. I held part of the aircraft in my hands that day.

Implicit in your theory is that many military people were willing to simply follow orders that would have been immoral and offensive, if given.

Gravy and others have done a fine job in establishing the impossibly of your "theory" so I have a different question.

Do you really believe members of the US military were so amoral that day that they willingly cooperated in such a massive governmental cover up? Do you believe that we military officers would actually keep silent about criminal actions of those above us regarding this horrible day? Do you truly think not one of us would have come forward if what you say is actually true?

 

[Belz...]

Remember the military was brought in the next day. Why bring in the military to Ground Zero if not to protect national secrets in the rubble of WTC 7?

Ah, yes. And we do know the military serve no function except to protect national secrets.

What would the government do to protect national secrets in WTC 7?

Are you now implying that firing the missiles on WTC 7 was intentional ? I thought you said it was an accident while firing on the planes ?

I was presenting a scenario as to why WTC 7 might be pulled: so sensitive national security information could be secured in a damaged building.

Also the building was likely to fall at some time and a controlled demolition would protect rescue workers in the area.

So basically any scenario is fine with you as long as it isn't the official one ?

It really amazes me you people consider yourselves to be critical thinkers.

You simply accept what the government and media tells you and you think it to be true.

Well, you expect us to believe YOU without proof. Why should we pick you over them ?

I think the government refused to admit to the controlled demolition of WTC 7 because of national security concerns surrounding the building. The remains of the building would have to be taken to a secret location and all sensitive information would be secured and removed.

Only in the CTer's mind would this be easier after a CD then simply going inside the towers and removing the information.

The missile hit WTC 7 one or two seconds after the crash of flight 175. I saw the video taken by the local FOX TV cameraman. It was shown every where after 9/11 but is rarely seen today.

Can't find it at all. NO ONE in NYC notice the gaping hole in 7 WTC ?

The large damage to the southern face of WTC 7 was caused by the missile and not the fall of WTC 1. The missile started the fires in WTC 7. A decision had to be made about the building. The fire department determined the building would likely fall at some point in time. If it fell on its own it would have fallen toward its weakest point--the southwest where debris from WTC 1 damaged the corner.

I see you have no intention of actually presenting proof, and prefer to simply make unsupported claims.

 

[MaGZ]

Magz,

I am a career military officer, retired in 2006. I was in the Pentagon when the plane hit on 9/11, had to do things, see things, that were most unpleasant. I held part of the aircraft in my hands that day.

Implicit in your theory is that many military people were willing to simply follow orders that would have been immoral and offensive, if given.

Gravy and others have done a fine job in establishing the impossibly of your "theory" so I have a different question.

Do you really believe members of the US military were so amoral that day that they willingly cooperated in such a massive governmental cover up? Do you believe that we military officers would actually keep silent about criminal actions of those above us regarding this horrible day? Do you truly think not one of us would have come forward if what you say is actually true?

I’m not saying a missile hit the Pentagon. I’m maintaining fighters were sent out of Otis fired upon the second plane as it was heading toward WTC 2, missed and hit WTC 7 and an open parking area northwest of the WTC complex.

I believe the military did everything it could to defend America that day including shooting down flight 93 over PA.

 

[Belz...]

From The Missiles at Ground Zero:

I think you over-estimate the destructive power of air-to-air missiles.

The North Tower collapse would have just damaged the southwest corner and would not have started any fires.

REALLY ? That's based on what calculation, now ? Foretelling the result of such a complex event requires calculations that no one has, frankly. So how can you claim to know this ?

Taken together with all the other links I provided I think it is significant, especially seconds after the event.

A thousand lies don't make a truth.

The purpose of the national security team in pulling the building would be to save the sensitive files and hard dives not to destroy them.

Except it's just speculation.

The program will start again two hours from now (11:00 eastern)

I have Dish Network.

You're really bad at this, aren't you ?

"Hey, I'm really smart. My argument will surely convince those skeptikz!"

 

[babazaroni]

We are of course in agreement in the collapse of the Twin Towers. WTC 7 appears by its fall to be a controlled demolition. The building’s remains gives us clues. If the building fell on its own–which it probably would at some time–the north and east sides would remain standing for at lease a few stories. The entire building fell upon itself in what appeared to be a classic control demolition.

Every column on the north side was supported by a cantilevered truss. The entire north side shifted east a few feet at this cantilevered section, just before the global collapse.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I’m not saying a missile hit the Pentagon. I’m maintaining fighters were sent out of Otis fired upon the second plane as it was heading toward WTC 2, missed and hit WTC 7 and an open parking area northwest of the WTC complex.

I believe the military did everything it could to defend America that day including shooting down flight 93 over PA.

You can't have that without them also being party to the coverup of those events.

 

[Belz...]

This is not a bird.
http://www.public-action.com/911/psyopnews/Extra/3/flash91.htm

If it's a missile, it's about fifty meters long.

 

[twinstead]

You're really bad at this, aren't you ?

These threads today make me actually miss Russell. At least most of the time knew how to debate.

I might as well be debating my 7 year old daughter on this thread.

 

[MaGZ]

Here is the NIST diagram showing the gaping hole on the south side of WTC 7. Also fire-fighters reported seeing this huge hole with smoke coming out of it.

http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/files/wtc7damage.jpg

 

[VespaGuy]

More than one saw the missile.

Here are some suportive links to the missile theory

Response from Otis Air National Guard Base:

"Profile: Otis Air National Guard Base," cooperativeresearch.org
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/e...nal_guard_base
"Otis Fighters Scramble to New York; Conflicting Accounts of Urgency and Destination," cooperativeresearch.org
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/c...852otistakeoff

Please point out where someone saw a missle.

Newark NJ air traffic controller, Bob Varcapade, said the fighters were over New York City moments after the second plane crashed in to WTC 2.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14754701/

Please point out where someone saw a missle.

Film of missile taken by Gedeon Naudet at the corner of Broadway and Vesey Street.
http://www.public-action.com/911/psy.../3/flash91.htm

This has already been explained to you. It is not a missile.

Reporter tells CNN some saw a missile.

Quote:
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jim, I don't know whether we've confirmed that this was an aircraft, or to be more specific, some people said they thought they saw a missile. I don't know how people could differentiate, but we might keep open the possibility that this was a missile attack on these buildings.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../11/bn.01.html

Yes. This is the one person I mentioned in my previous post. An unidentified male who claims that some people thought they saw a missile. This is third-hand information.

Mysterious explosion and white cloud at 9:04 am:
http://911studies.com/911photostudies119.htm

Please point out where someone saw a missle.

Unexplained 9/11 Explosion at WTC Complex," by Christopher Bollyn, American Free Press, July 10, 2004.
http://www.thepowerhour.com/911_anal...-explosion.htm

Please point out where someone saw a missle.

Eyewitnesses to WTC 7 missile hit.

Quote:
After the initial blast, Housing Authority worker Barry Jennings, 46, reported to a command center on the 23rd floor of 7 World Trade Center. He was with Michael Hess, the city's corporation counsel, when they felt and heard another explosion. First calling for help, they scrambled downstairs to the lobby, or what was left of it. "I looked around, the lobby was gone. It looked like hell," Jennings said.
http://www.record-eagle.com/2001/sep/11scene.htm

Please point out where Barry Jennings saw the missle.

NIST diagram of damage area on the 14th floor of WTC 7
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/files/wtc7damage.jpg

Please point out where someone saw a missle.

You aren't very good at this Magz. I asked you to explain how (according to you) only one of the tens of thousands of folks who were looking at the sky at that time did not see this missle. You responed with a bunch of links that say nothing about missles.

I'll ask again, how come tens of thousands of New Yorkers didn't see this missle?

 

[babazaroni]

MAGZ, I take it you are no longer claiming the missile is visible in the Flight 175: As the World Watched video?

What happened?

The video is available on the web. If you think the missile is on the video, then show us where.

If you can't, then your are just plain feeble.