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The Minnesota Iceman

Please keep it on topic and civil. The topic is not the other posters.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: kmortis
 
Lorenzo Rossi said:
The reconstruction of the facts written by Heuvelmans is very different from what I have read in various books, booklets, forums and websites on the subject written in English
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Welcome! I would love to hear more on this sometime.

Unfortunately the photographs are only three and does not depict all the details of the body. Do you know if there are others?
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I'm afraid I don't know, but the book mentioned in the post showing those pictures might have more.

1) In the caption of a photograph I read that: "mold had darkened the facial features". How does mold has acted only on the coloration of the face and not on the rest of the body?
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Well, if we assume it is in fact mold and not the shadow of the arm held over the face, I would imagine that the blood Hansen used for the shot out eye effect would be the reason.

2) The face of the Ball's model is quite different from the one photographed by Heuvelmans, in which the mouth of the "creature" was obviously closed. Even the foots and the toes are totally different.
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It's a shame that the demise of the old Bigfoot Forums destroyed wolftrax's animated .gif comparing the original and supposed replacement iceman, as I think he did a great job of showing they are one and the same.

When comparing the old pictures of the iceman with the newer ones, please keep in mind that Ivan Sanderson said:

Any conclusions that follow amount, frankly, to little more than speculation because the specimen could not be handled and had to be viewed from no closer than a foot at best, through four sheets of plate glass and a varying amount of clear, frosted, or totally opaque ice.
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So, considering how the modern pictures show the defrosted model, it's easy to see what they would not seem to be an exact match at first. The difference in camera angles and lighting is important as well. Look up "myspace voodoo" to see just how much such factors can make a difference. Come to think of it, the "blood" covering a portion of the face would also be an issue to consider.

It seems to me that the older picture of the iceman shows an open mouth that is blacked out. The shadow effect could also account for the supposed differences with the feet and toes. Then again, maybe the feet/toes had more hair covering them in the old days.

This case has always fascinated me for the strange behavior of Hansen. For example: why bother to make changes to the model?
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Pretend you own the iceman exhibit for a minute. You have two scientists singing the praises (and authenticity) of your exhibit and business has been quite good as a result. But now someone (John Napier) has succeeded in getting the Smithsonian interested. If they expose the iceman as a hoax, both your business and reputation are ruined. So what do you do?

First, tell some made-up story about a "real owner" and withdraw the iceman from circulation. Claim that in its place will be a recreation. After all, the public should show more interest in a recreation of a supposedly real being than a proven hoax. But since Sanderson and Heuvelmans will no doubt return to examine the iceman, you can't simply put the iceman back out and claim it's something different without risking them exposing you.

So you have to make a few modifications to the model, maybe freeze it so that people get a better look at it than the way you had it when you were trying to pass it off as a real creature. The water freezing around the model could also subtly alter things as well.

3) Do you know if exist pictures of the iceman during the last years of exhibition in the early '80?
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If there are any such pictures online, I do not know of them. But you never know what someone might find in a family photo album sometime and decide to upload.
 
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Considering that Hansen had originally wanted to do a frozen alien exhibit before he opted to go the ape man route, I thought you all might be interested in this Minnesota Iceman-style hoax involving an alien. Although much cruder than the Iceman in design, its creator gets bonus points for not neglecting to factor in freezer burn to his frozen hoax.

That website also has some fascinating notes on how being submerged in water for an extended period of time effects a latex prop . I don't know if any of it would apply to a frozen vinyl "hot melt" prop like the Iceman, but it's still worth reading.
hot melt
 
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Drewbot said:
Check out this stuff.
http://grindshow.com/
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Thanks! I'm a huge fan of Doug Higley's work. Your link also gives me an excuse to link to this.

Getting back on the subject of the Minnesota Iceman, I can't believe I forgot to mention that the Iceman was sold on ebay for $19,000 this year. Some of the more desperate proponents are actually trying to argue that the price proves that it's not a hoax.

Oh, and get this: There's a story going around that Rick Dyer is the Iceman's new owner!
 
Is it possible the Patterson suit is in a comparable condition?

After seeing this some months ago, I had to accept that it might literally be in rags by this point, but if the Iceman can be kept in such an acceptable condition, surely it's possible the Patterson suit could be as well, and easily recognizable.
 
STRONG LIKE BEAR said:
Is it possible the Patterson suit is in a comparable condition?

After seeing ="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlQ0UWPgMko"]this] some months ago, I had to accept that it might literally be in rags by this point, but if the Iceman can be kept in such an acceptable condition, surely it's possible the Patterson suit could be as well, and easily recognizable.
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I'm friends with the guy who did that.
Tom Spina.
We went to college together.

Remember the Star Wars Catina Super Bowl commercial a few years ago? That was him and his crew.

He's the only person I know that grew up and truly followed his passion.
 
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catsmate1 said:
Try this one.
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Thanks!

STRONG LIKE BEAR said:
Is it possible the Patterson suit is in a comparable condition?

After seeing this some months ago, I had to accept that it might literally be in rags by this point, but if the Iceman can be kept in such an acceptable condition, surely it's possible the Patterson suit could be as well, and easily recognizable.
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It all depends on the materials used to create the suit and the storage conditions it was kept in. The Iceman was made of a type of vinyl and spent a good chunk of its time in a frozen state, so I'm not surprised that it exists in the condition it's in. If any portion of the Patty costume was rubber, there's a good chance that it's either completely rotted away or only exists in fragments. For example, this shows that the earliest surviving Godzilla costume from the 60's only exists as a head. That link also has numerous pictures of the varying conditions of other costumes from that era as they appeared in the 70's. The presence of Mechagodzilla implies that this was taken sometime around 1974 at the earliest. On the other hand, the creature suit from the 1971 film ZAAT appears to still be in good condition. You can find some (minor) notes on its construction here.
 
MIM made a brief appearance on Shipping Wars on A&E, as he was being transported to his new location. They went on a Bigfoot hunt in some undisclosed location. Oddly enough, they didn't find him. They ended up breaking the transporter's rig when taking him out. The guy who bought it seemed like a juvenile ass. I'm sure most of that was for the camera.
 
William Parcher said:
LAL (Lu) was a big supporter of it being real. I wonder if her thinking has changed now.
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To her credit, LAL was actually the one who broke the news on BFF a couple of years ago. She had found photos of the defrosted Iceman in a book on carnival life: Pickled Punks & Girlie Shows: A Life Spent on the Midways of America by Rick West and posted them. Alas, though, it didn't change her mind. She was still holding out for a Vietnam origin of the Iceman, following Heuvelmans down the rabbit hole. The Iceman defrosted was just the copy, predictably.

Someone ought to look into Coleman's about-face on the Iceman. I remember he posted on Cryptomundo a few years ago that he had changed his mind about the Iceman and now believed it to be just a carnival attraction. I wonder -- Did he read West's book first? Was it even published when he recanted? I don't recall that he referred to West at all.
 
Yeah... The original iceman was sold to a rich guy who was a Biblical fundamentalist, an anti-evolution YEC. Since it was a piece of evidence against his beliefs, a piece so strong that could ruin it all, shatter the fabric of Christian America, he keeps it hidden and maybe even destroyed it.

Must have used the same methods the MiB and NSA people use to keep bigfoots hidden from the sheeple.

Besides being a common bigfootery cheesy tall tale used as a lame excuse, there's another aspect on it that conflicts with bigfootery and helps show its utter garbage. An extra issue I'll leave you folks to recognize.
 
jerrywayne said:
Someone ought to look into Coleman's about-face on the Iceman. I remember he posted on Cryptomundo a few years ago that he had changed his mind about the Iceman and now believed it to be just a carnival attraction. I wonder -- Did he read West's book first? Was it even published when he recanted? I don't recall that he referred to West at all.
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Coleman's change of heart came not too long after Verne Langdon appeared at the BFF to explain why the Minnesota Iceman was a complete hoax. Like others here, I doubt it was a coincidence...
 
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