The Minnesota Iceman

[drapier]

So Parcher are you saying that one can base conclusions by just looking at the empherical evidence?

Empherical?

I love this word.

It contains at least three totally different meanings:
Emphasis
Empirical
Ephemeral

And it only has ten letters!

 

[Crowlogic]

William William William I was needling you about your obsession with Roger Patterson's clothes. Now it seems that you would not have wasted your precious time peeking at the Iceman sideshow because you sense it was a fake because they didn't get the Smithstonian to house it. So I paid my 25 cents and got to see the Iceman. So I can at least comment with first hand knowledge as to what the thing looked like. My eyes tol me it was a fake not heresay.

 

[William Parcher]

I probably would have paid the quarter to see it if I had the chance. Crow, your posts almost never make sense even when you try to explain yourself.

The issue is that a hominoid body on ice was displayed at a mall as a 'sideshow attraction'. Yeah, it's either a bipedal hominoid or it's a fake. If it's not a fake, then it is quite likely (default) that it is a modern human. This should present a legal and ethical problem. Authorities might want to know who is frozen inside the ice block. Could be a missing person or victim of a crime. Is it legal to haul around an unidentified dead person and charge money to see it? Do the federal and local authorities simply look the other way?

 

[ringmaster]

I had a chance to examine the Iceman, close-up, in the early seventies. That was before he was "frozen". At that time he as being correctly billed as "the 600 lb., stone, ape like man" in an open casket, by the owners son, Tim Malone. The gaff was carved from a single block of limestone, which gave the 'skin' a remarkable texture. The detail on the finger and toe nails was also remarkable. The only tell was the lack of open nostrils, which readily weren't visible.
Latter that year, owner Jerry Malone had a cameo role, on the Claude Aiken TV show " Movin' On", he played himself and had the beautiful Chevy semi- tractor that pulled the " Lil' Irvy" whale show.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

When I went back to this thread to post a link to some of the concept art for "King Kong vs. Frankenstein" to replace the now-defunct links in my previous posts, I realized that I had missed a post:

I had a chance to examine the Iceman, close-up, in the early seventies. That was before he was "frozen". At that time he as being correctly billed as "the 600 lb., stone, ape like man" in an open casket, by the owners son, Tim Malone.

That would be a different iceman than the original Frank Hansen one, seeing as how the Minnesota Iceman was frozen in the 60's.

The gaff was carved from a single block of limestone, which gave the 'skin' a remarkable texture. The detail on the finger and toe nails was also remarkable. The only tell was the lack of open nostrils, which readily weren't visible.

Thanks for the information! I should note that the Cardiff Giant was also made of limestone.

Also, here is a replacement link for clips of "The Lost World," a film which Iceman-supporter Ivan Sanderson thought used chickens in dinosaur costumes to accomplish its special effects.

 

[ponderingturtle]

There was also "The Cardiff Giant" (not Cardiff, the capital of Wales, but some hick US town), I can't recall any details, but he was a definite fraud & this was admitted to sometime later.

But he was then out frauded by PT Barnum.

Barnum offered to buy it, he refused, so Barnum had his own gaint(that looked better) made up and claimed that the first guy's was the fraud and he had the real one.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Thanks to a PM by tube, I was alerted to the fact that Verne Langdon himself has started a thread about the Minnesota Iceman over at the BFF. Not only does he provide some behind-the-scenes insights on the creation of the Iceman, but he also confirms that the other "iceman" owned by Jerry Malone was in fact made by John Chambers. I'm definitely looking forward to his appearance on "The Bigfoot Show."

 

[tube]

Straight out of the block, Langdon's timeline is damning as it has Hansen initiating the Iceman gaff as early as 1964:

"Greetings! My name is Verne Langdon (http://www.vernelangdon.com), and from 1963 to 1969 I owned half of Don Post Studios, creators of "Over The Head rubber masks", and pioneer prop builders for Hollywood film and television productions. Some time during 1964 or even later (the year is vague for all the memories, but Werner Keppler was on staff in the lab at Universal Studios and Howard Ball was still alive, should you wish to pinpoint the time), Frank Hansen read about our studios in James Warren's and Forrest J Ackerman's Famous Monsters Of Filmland Magazine, and came to see us about the possibility of creating a "concept" - he showed us a rough sketch - a prehistoric creature he planned to freeze in a block of ice, and exhibit it throughout the United States."

Those that advocate the the "Iceman" was a real animal, like Ivan Sanderson and Loren Coleman, claim that there were two exhibits, the first one a real animal then the second a fabricated gaff. Obviously Langdon's timeline puts the kibosh on that notion.

 

[tube]

I finished listening to Brian Brown's (BFF's Bipto) podcast with Verne Langdon:

http://www.bigfootproject.org/bfs/BFS_007_dl.mp3

Great interview! Langdon goes into great detail about the back story of how Hansen approached him to create the gaff, but for various reasons declined the job. The work was done by Howard Ball, using "hot melt" which I understand is an industry term for a type of vinyl. Latex was not uses as it was thought to be too unstable in water.

Here is one of his comments that I liked:

“All anyone has to do is get a small understanding of the carnival business, and what was out on the road in the 40’s, 50’s, and 60’s to understand where a lot of the myths come from, and what people will do to get your attention and sell you something.”

 

[ringmaster]

Rick West has a lot of information and a picture about this at side show world, how ever Randii will not allow me to post a link to it. The picture of the Big Foot gaff in the West interview is not the same limestone "six hundred pound ape-like man" that Jerry Malone's son Tim exhibited at the Mid South Fair in 1975. I remember the year because Jerry had just done a cameo, as himself, on the Claude Aken TV show Movin' On. That is where Jerry picked up the handle "Tyrone", and also where he got the idea to race big trucks, which he did for the rest of his life.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

http://www.sideshowworld.com/home1.html

What do we look for in the index ?

The site is not searchable ...

You can post a URL - Just throw in some extra spaces and we can sort it out ..

 

[ringmaster]

I can't post a link until I've made 15 posts. Check your PM.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Here is the Rick West link

http://www.sideshowworld.com/interviewRickWest.html

Thanks ringmaster, interesting/entertaining stuff...

Check out this pic:

I'm sure that's a big horse, but not as big as it looks .. ( remember the giant pig photos ? )

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

The picture of the Big Foot gaff in the West interview is not the same limestone "six hundred pound ape-like man" that Jerry Malone's son Tim exhibited at the Mid South Fair in 1975.

Interesting. Would this be the limestone creation that he exhibited?

 

[Blue Mountain]

Here is the Rick West link

http://www.sideshowworld.com/interviewRickWest.html

Thanks ringmaster, interesting/entertaining stuff...

Check out this pic:

http://www.sideshowworld.com/RW1Big Jim1a.JPG


I'm sure that's a big horse, but not as big as it looks .. ( remember the giant pig photos ? )

It's mostly due to foreshortening: I'm pretty sure that man is several feet further away from the horse than at first appears. Having the horse's nose just appearing to touch his hat is pretty clever.

Overall the photograph has been very well composed.

 

[ringmaster]

Interesting. Wouldthis[] be the limestone creation that he exhibited?

No, the limestone creature had sparse body hair, pronounced skin pores and a bullit wound in the eye. The nails on the hands and feet were very convincing,
The only tell was a lack of nostrile opening, which could not be see from the top. I thought that was the one that was later frozen, but I am no longer sure.
West seems to be saying he owed more than one, and Jerry Malone is reported to have sold two different gaffs.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

No, the limestone creature had sparse body hair, pronounced skin pores and a bullit wound in the eye. The nails on the hands and feet were very convincing,
The only tell was a lack of nostrile opening, which could not be see from the top. I thought that was the one that was later frozen, but I am no longer sure.
West seems to be saying he owed more than one, and Jerry Malone is reported to have sold two different gaffs.

Thanks for the information. It sounds like a knockoff version of Hansen's Iceman. The description you gave reminds me of some exhibits noted here (towards the bottom) and in post #11 here.

I can only hope that someone finds/posts a picture of that limestone creation on of these days.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Some supporters of the Iceman's reality tout the credentials of one Terry Cullens. However, as this clip from "Unsolved Mysteries" shows, Cullens (and others who seemingly vouch for the Iceman being real) were kids or teens when they saw the Minnesota Iceman!

 

[kitakaze]

Thanks to a PM by tube, I was alerted to the fact that Verne Langdon himself has started a thread about the Minnesota Iceman over at the BFF.

Just like Dfoot said months ago:

FOR EXAMPLE: VERN LANGDON worked for Chambers on POTA. He ran DON POST where everyone got lots of items to use with their monster suits from time to time. Vern will tell you that he thinks Patty isn't good enough to be a real Chamber's job. Everyone knows this. But that's not what it was. Chambers was involved in helping put together this thing in a way very similar to the way he helped put together the MINNESOTA ICEMAN for FRANK HANSEN.

VERN LANGDON is alive and well. He'll tell you that HANSEN called him at Don Post Studio and wanted an Iceman exhibit (this was an old carny thing done all the time for years). Langdon sent him to Chambers. Chambers sent Hansen to HOWARD BALL and advised on how to do certain things.

LANGDON used to have a name for their group. He called them "funsters." They were big time into practical jokes.
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/Dfoot/Chambers-Post-Langdon.jpg
That's CHAMBERS in the top photo on the far left with POST and VERN LANGDON on the far right. They were constantly churning out all of the materials you would need for a Patty type creature. Patty didn't come from there but her hands and hair may well have started out there.

 

[Correa Neto]

I haven't checked the whole thread. This put, I really think someome should say a word or two there regarding Dfoot's position, since he was right on spot regarding this issue. He deserves the credit, regardless of the grudges some footers may have with him.

Sorry if this was already made.