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The Metaphysical Consciousness

Donn said:
So, the usual pseudoscience of TM then?

ETA: And some de-stress techniques. Sure is the fount of ALL knowledge at work!
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When my boss gave me a task at work I told him that goal directed behavior was antithetical to spiritual enlightenment and when he wanted a time line I said that time was an illusion used to trap us in delusion so he fired me and I am now free to pursue my esoteric studies. The only problem is that my unenlightened landlord still wants the rent so brother can you spare a dime?
 
Brother my cup is empty
and I haven't got a penny
for to buy no more whiskey
I have to go home.

-- Nick Cave

Amen!
:D
 
Resume said:
What is a higher state of consciousness? How do you know when you've achieved it? By what metric?
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From my own subjective experience the first step of higher state of consciousness is awareness without thoughts, which is achieved without any efforts during TM practice.

The thoughts' process is a natural effortless phenomenon that exists in my mind (and actually in any healthy human mind).

TM technique uses this natural effortless processes in order to be aware of finer and quieter levels of it until I directly aware of the calm state that is free of any thoughts' process.

This calm state is actually the natural base-ground of any possible level of thoughts' process, and scientifically it has a typical coherent brain's waves patterns (called Alpha brain's waves) that are objectively measured by scientific standard equipment like EEG.

The first goal of TM practice is to stabilize the calm state that is free of any thoughts' process, such that it will not lost during thoughts' process.

The immediate benefit of such state of mind among people is the ability to communicate with each other right from the objective calm state that is free of any thoughts' process, which is used as the natural base-ground for effortless harmonious day by day interactions.
 
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doronshadmi said:
From my own subjective experience the first step of higher state of consciousness is awareness without thoughts, which is achieved without any efforts during TM practice.
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Sorry, that's a contradiction. If you are aware, you are thinking.

What you might mean is awareness without narrative - without the inner voice. That's not a higher state of consciousness, though. That's a lower state of consciousness.
 
PixyMisa said:
Sorry, that's a contradiction. If you are aware, you are thinking.
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What you wrote is indeed an experience and a conclusion of a person that only talking\thinking about TM without actually practicing it.

The right one is like this: If you are aware you are also enable to think, but it does not mean that if you are aware you are also must think.

PixyMisa said:
What you might mean is awareness without narrative - without the inner voice. That's not a higher state of consciousness, though. That's a lower state of consciousness.
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This is a higher state of consciousness exactly because the person is directly aware of the foundation of the thought's process, which is objective (it is the same non-personal source for all subjective experiences in all persons' minds) and provides the natural conditions for harmoniums interactions among persons.
 
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doronshadmi said:
What you wrote is indeed an experience and a conclusion of a person that only talking\thinking about TM without actually practicing it.
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No. As I said, your claim is contradictory. It is false by definition. No matter what your experiences may be, your claim is still false.

The right one is like this: If you are aware you are also enable to think, but it does not mean that if you are aware you are also must think.
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As I said, you may be mistaking thought with narrative. If you are aware, you are thinking by definition. But awareness without narrative is, as I said, a lower state of consciousness. It's a very common one, by the way; no training in TM or anything else is required. It's something everyone experiences.

This is a higher state of consciousness exactly because the person is directly aware of the foundation of the thought's process
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That's physically impossible. The brain is introspective, yes, but at a much higher level of abstraction. You cannot observe its function at that level without the aid of equipment such as an FMRI scanner.

Also, it doesn't happen.

which is objective (it is the same non-personal source for all subjective experiences in all persons' minds) and provides the natural conditions for harmoniums interactions among persons.
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As far as I can parse that to be meaningful, it's not true. All mental activity is a function of the brain; it doesn't come from anywhere else.
 
PixyMisa said:
There's no such thing as a "higher state of consciousness".
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I'm so glad you said that!!:) I was just about to ask if someone would please tell me what a 'higher state of consciousness' is and how they can tell they are in it, or have reached it. I ask this quite often on GH and have never yet had an understandable answer!
 
doronshadmi said:
The first goal of TM practice is to stabilize the calm state that is free of any thoughts' process, such that it will not lost during thoughts' process.
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As has been pointed out, this is a contradiction. It's not possible.
The immediate benefit of such state of mind among people is the ability to communicate with each other right from the objective calm state that is free of any thoughts' process, which is used as the natural base-ground for effortless harmonious day by day interactions.
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This doesn't mean anything.
 
PixyMisa said:
No. As I said, your claim is contradictory. It is false by definition. No matter what your experiences may be, your claim is still false.
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Definitions, narratives etc. are done at the level thoughts process. Once again you demonstrate a point of view that is not done from the calm source of thoughts process, which is not a thought in itself.

PixyMisa said:
As I said, you may be mistaking thought with narrative. If you are aware, you are thinking by definition. But awareness without narrative is, as I said, a lower state of consciousness. It's a very common one, by the way; no training in TM or anything else is required. It's something everyone experiences.
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Another example of a mind that is not aware of the calm source of thoughts process, which is not a thought in itself.

PixyMisa said:
The brain is introspective, yes, but at a much higher level of abstraction.
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Exactly. It is also can be described as a higher level of consciousness, such that the self is aware of itself without any thoughts process.

PixyMisa said:
As far as I can parse that to be meaningful, it's not true. All mental activity is a function of the brain; it doesn't come from anywhere else.
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It is obvious that you get "I" only at the level thoughts process, and from this point of view you simply unable to be aware of calm source of thoughts process, which is actually the source of any possible phenomena, whether it is observed as physical or mental.
 
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Resume said:
As has been pointed out, this is a contradiction. It's not possible.

This doesn't mean anything.
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As long as you get things only from the level of thoughts process, this is indeed your only possible conclusions.
 
doronshadmi said:
As long as you get things only from the level of thoughts process, this is indeed your only possible conclusions.
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As long as you are thinking, you cannot be fooled into believing in "higher" states of consciousness.

As soon as you start thinking about them, any evidence for their actual existence disappears.
 
So if it can't be done properly until some magical number of other people do some magical thing, what are you doing? Doing what you say can't be done, or just getting a fleeting glimpse of the unattainable? Smacks of wasted time.
 
doronshadmi said:
<harmonium drone snip>
calm source of thoughts process, which is actually the source of any possible phenomena, whether it is observed as physical or mental.
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How is "the source of any possible phenomena" related to the Source of ALL knowledge?

And, no. If a tree falls when you are not around, it still makes a sound and gradually decays, giving host to insects, plants and animals, until it is dirt.

None of what happens to that tree is in your calm source mind.

If you don't understand that, I'd suggest that you are not aware of the calm source of thoughts process, which is not a thought in itself.
 
I'm still waiting to hear whether a TM mind reach and access (i.e. brings back/write down some of) the source of all knowledge or not?

Even if only during practice, for <reasons>.
 
Donn said:
If a tree falls when you are not around, it still makes a sound and gradually decays, giving host to insects, plants and animals, until it is dirt.
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I agree with you.

Yet this tree, the insects, plants and animals, and the process of being dirt, are all based on the calm source beyond any change.

By analogy, the ocean is the same ocean whether it appears as changing waves or calm unchanged state as the basis of these changing waves.

We as human beings simply have the natural ability to dive through the changing aspect of this ocean during TM practice and directly be aware of its calm unchanged state.

This calm unchanged state is used as the objective universal "tuning fork" that enables mental\physical phenomena to interact with each other in harmonious ways (where all mental\physical phenomena are subjective changes with respect to the objectivity of the calm unchanged state).

Take, for example, The Physical Sciences. They are clearly trying to reach the simplest base-ground of all Laws of Nature in order to actually be aware of how Nature's phenomena are deeply related to each other.

Currently it is done indirectly by using billions dollar equipments like Large Hadron Collider (LHC), but since we are evolutionary results of the same researched realm that have been developed as self referential phenomena during the evolution, each one of us enables to directly be aware of the simplest base-ground of all Laws of Nature (the calm unchanged state), by using technologies of consciousness like TM in order to directly achieve the benefits of acting right from the simplest base-ground of all Laws of Nature.
 
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doronshadmi said:
Definitions, narratives etc. are done at the level thoughts process. Once again you demonstrate a point of view that is not done from the calm source of thoughts process, which is not a thought in itself.
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You are wrong by definition. If you speak of a four-sided triangle, you are wrong by definition, and what you are saying has no meaning. It doesn't matter what experiences you believe you have had, you are still wrong.

Another example of a mind that is not aware of the calm source of thoughts process, which is not a thought in itself.
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What?

Exactly. It is also can be described as a higher level of consciousness
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There's no such thing as a "higher level of consciousness".

such that the self is aware of itself without any thoughts process.
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That's a contradiction. Self-awareness is a type of thought.

It is obvious that you get "I" only at the level thoughts process, and from this point of view you simply unable to be aware of calm source of thoughts process, which is actually the source of any possible phenomena, whether it is observed as physical or mental.
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As before, insofar as this can be parsed to be meaningful at all, it is entirely wrong.
 
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