The memory of water

[PixyMisa]

I am the person who will entertain any interesting hypothesis, but will not truly believe in it unless it has been proven with rigorous scientific testing.

Okay then, I think. I apologise for my rather sharp tone earlier.

 

[Tricky]

I am the person who will entertain any interesting hypothesis, but will not truly believe in it unless it has been proven with rigorous scientific testing.

I would say that these experiments are interesting but far from anything resembling rigorous testing. Some possible sources of experimental error have already been noted. What it indicates to me is that sources of contamination may be more difficult to pinpoint than the experimenters may have planned for.

And this doesn't really say anything about homeopathy either. I cannot see that they are stating that the ultradiluted water has the same (or greater) intensity of effects or reverse effects from the solute as the original. These are the claims that homeopathy makes, though they vary depending on what the homeopath has to sell.

 

[Ladewig]

Okay then, I think. I apologise for my rather sharp tone earlier.

Yes, I too, want to offer gs21stc a welcome to the forum. I hope he/she will stay.

 

[Elizabeth I]

It's a liquid.

Well, to be fair, a brain is mostly fat.

 

[PixyMisa]

Well, to be fair, a brain is mostly fat.

Speak for yourself!

 

[Olowkow]

If water has a memory, it surely has a personality...and a flair for style. If this glass of water could talk, what at tale it could tell... billions of years of memories.

Perhaps we should have a water museum called "Tanks for the Memories".

 

[Gevaudan]

"The Memory of Water" sounds like it could be the title of an Oprah book club choice.

 

[I Ratant]

Fish screw in it!
Who wants those memories!

 

[Olowkow]

Well, Monsieur P. Belon is a homeopath, and a search for his stuff led me to this paper: http://www.classical-homeopathy.gr/texts/doc/scientific_report.doc

Belon is one of the 514 references in a 12 page report (with 19 pages of references) on the Profile of Efficacy for Homeopathy. It must be true, with all the references. The reasoning is laughable, but what is particularly funny is the good doctor's letterhead:

Dr. Spiros A. Kivellos Homeopathy Docror [sic].

 

[Gevaudan]

Fish screw in it!
Who wants those memories!

Other horny fish!

 

[mattdick]

Ultimately, water memory has no prior plausibility. It's going to take a nearly perfect study to get anyone on board with the idea.

 

[Mojo]

Here's a couple of doctors who seem to have established that water has a memory (at least under certain conditions):

"On removing the water from the freezer, it will be observed that the block of ice, though now exposed to room temperature, will remain a block of ice for some time. Thus, there exists in water a property which enables it to "remember" for a certain amount of time that it has been kept in the freezer"

Paolo Bellavite, M.D. and Andrea Signorini, M.D., The Emerging Science of Homeopathy: Complexity, Biodynamics, and Nanopharmacology, 2002

 

[gs21stc]

Here's a couple of doctors who seem to have established that water has a memory (at least under certain conditions):

"On removing the water from the freezer, it will be observed that the block of ice, though now exposed to room temperature, will remain a block of ice for some time. Thus, there exists in water a property which enables it to "remember" for a certain amount of time that it has been kept in the freezer"

Paolo Bellavite, M.D. and Andrea Signorini, M.D., The Emerging Science of Homeopathy: Complexity, Biodynamics, and Nanopharmacology, 2002

There is a thermodynamic explanation for that. It is taught in physics and chemistry at school. There is this property called the specific latent heat of vaporisation of water. When you remove the ice from the freezer, it takes time for the ice to gain energy to break the hydrogen bonds inside of it to become a less tightly bonded substance, that is liquid water.

These homeopaths are looking like a bunch of religious priest to me, except that they are trying to get science to justify their practice.

 

[mattdick]

Here's a couple of doctors who seem to have established that water has a memory (at least under certain conditions):

If this is what they mean by memory, then under certain circumstances means in the universe.

Seriously, it is insane to call this memory. This is the behavior of matter in this particular universe. Water doesn't boil at precisely 100 degrees C, either. It's not because water remembers being water and doesn't want to be ice, unless anthropomorphism is the metaphor you favor.

 

[Dead1ock]

Unless those articles were published in respected peer-reviewed scientific journals, they don't mean much at all.

 

[Mojo]

Seriously, it is insane to call this memory.

I posted it in the "homeopaths say the darndest things" thread as well. It just somehow seemed appropriate here...

 

[Niobe]

Here's a couple of doctors who seem to have established that water has a memory (at least under certain conditions):

That reads like parody! The water on the outside of the block will start to thaw immediately. The center won't because IT'S STILL SURROUNDED BY FROZEN WATER.

Memory of water isn't just applied in homeopathy. Dr Emoto claims he can infuse "intent" into water and positively charged water (like with the word love) will be healing and make plants grow while the opposite is true for negatively infused water.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/02/post_2.php

 

[gs21stc]

There is a thermodynamic explanation for that. It is taught in physics and chemistry at school. There is this property called the specific latent heat of vaporisation of water. When you remove the ice from the freezer, it takes time for the ice to gain energy to break the hydrogen bonds inside of it to become a less tightly bonded substance, that is liquid water.

These homeopaths are looking like a bunch of religious priest to me, except that they are trying to get science to justify their practice.

Sorry, in my previous post, "vapourisation" should be replaced by "condensation" for the case of ice turning into liquid water.

I would like to explain this phenomena for those who does not know about the science behind it. It is actually very simple.

Let's say you have a block of ice at temperature below 0 degrees Celsius. You apply constant heat to the ice. When the ice reaches 0 degrees Celsius, it will start to melt. Even if you keep on applying heat to it, its temperature will not change. After all the ice have melted, then the temperature will rise until you reach 100 degrees Celsius. Again, the temperature will not rise until all of the liquid water have change to vapour.

The reason why the temperature won't rise at the melting and boiling points is because the substance is absorbing heat to change into a different phase. This heat is called the specific latent heat of vapourisation/condensation for boiling/melting point.

Either the homeopaths are ignorant of this basic knowledge of thermal physics, or they are trying to mislead the public.

 

[Mojo]

Either the homeopaths are ignorant of this basic knowledge of thermal physics, or they are trying to mislead the public.

Or both?

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

The memory of water hypothesis states that water can have memory of substances once dissolved in it.

What about the memory of water hypotesis itself? If the Hypotesis states that water can have a memory, that seems to suggest that the Hypotesis has the ability to come up with ideas and thus, remember them.