The Massei/Mignini Conspiracy Theory

[Robrob]

It has been stated numerous times that those who believe that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are innocent are in fact conspiracy theorists.

It's not the fact they believe something contrary to the court that makes them CT. It's that they refuse to accept facts and evidence in deference to wild eyed conspiracy that makes them CT.

 

[Rolfe]

So why are the sober and factual Lockerbie discussions always consigned to the CT forum? (OK I know there are a couple of threads - mainly on Megrahi's release - in other areas, but there are always calls for them to be moved, and any post no matter how factual that pointed out his innocence was split off here at one time.)

Rolfe.

ETA: I'm assuming, Robrob, that you're talking about CTs in general, since it's now been shown that everything those who believed in Knox and Sollecito's innocence were saying was true. (As will be shown for Megrahi, eventually, also.)

 

[PhantomWolf]

It's not the fact they believe something contrary to the court that makes them CT. It's that they refuse to accept facts and evidence in deference to wild eyed conspiracy that makes them CT.

You mean the "facts and evidence" that Hellman's court just utterly rejected in his aquitals while stating that RS and AK had nothing to do with the murder and that the break in wasn't staged?

 

[Kaosium]

It's not the fact they believe something contrary to the court that makes them CT. It's that they refuse to accept facts and evidence in deference to wild eyed conspiracy that makes them CT.

Here's the author of your conspiracy theory, the man who actually does refuse to accept facts and evidence and who never seemed to find a falsifier he couldn't 'hypothesize' himself out of. Here's how he took the verdict:

 

[GrouchoMarxist]

Them Dukes!

 

[carlitos]

 

[Chris_Halkides]

interpretations versus the evidence itself

It's not the fact they believe something contrary to the court that makes them CT. It's that they refuse to accept facts and evidence in deference to wild eyed conspiracy that makes them CT.

Robrob,

Can you be more specific? Can you give some examples? To what wild eyed conspiracy do you refer?

It is true that I do not accept Judge Massei's interpretations of the DNA evidence. Why not? I think I know more about DNA profiling than he does. Massei implies at one point something that no forensic geneticist in the world believes. Not that this is in and of itself shameful; his specialty is law, not science.

 

[curi0us]

I posted this collection of CT quotes in the main AK thread but it seems like it should go here as well. For those unfamiliar with the case Machiavelli has been one of Knox's fiercest online detractors and a passionate supporter of the main prosecutor Mignini.

Originally Posted by RWVBWL
What would make a court set both Raffaele and Amanda free, in your own opinion?

In case of judicial corruption, one of these two forces is required to play: money or massonry.

Surely you are not advocating a... <dramatic music> conspiracy theory?

(How am I the first to raise this issue? Don't we have a corps of ever-alert and completely even-handed posters here who are definitely not guilters and who will pull people up without fear or favour if they argue for a <dramatic music> conspiracy theory? I guess they were all asleep).

Must be a very big conspiracy too since Machievelli also thinks a conspiracy was behind Mignini's abuse of office conviction:

The point 1) is very serious. Yes I am suggesting Mignini was not given a fair trial. The issue is serious, but the Italian system had also more serious issues than this one.

Some older JREF thread quotes from the Machiavelli:

He is obviously at flight risk. He is exactly in the same situation as Ludwig, an Italian serial killer. Anyone who risks a very high penalty and has not confessed is considered at flight rist. In addition Sollecito is surrounded by a family who acitively conspired with illicit means against the investigation, he has a lot of money, is the son of a Masonic leader in South Italy with capability of move a network at his disposal, and posseses firearms as well as the custom of walking around with weapons.

But Telenorba executives are also indicted. It's not normal for a tv network to comply and publish this material, to produce and to broadcast news reports like they did. It is not normal for a man in Bari to speak on the phone asking for governemtal powers to "flay" the chief of Perugia Flying squad. It is not comon for an average citizen to have a pillar of Bari masonry prof. Introna and Giulia Bongiorno on his payroll.

The Monster of Florence is a story of satanic cults and ritual murders.

And the story of satanic cults and ritual murders is instead of ganuinely Florentine origin, was already renown since many years before Mignini was appointed in the Narducci case. A group devoted to satanic cults and ritual murders actualy existed. The question is, whether Narducci was part of it or not. Whether people were involved in a policical covering of investigations, or not.

Mignini's initial theory of the crime was some variation of a satanic ritual:

Sunday Mirror, October 26, 2008

Mignini told the court: "There was a sect-like aspect with cultural connections to Halloween and All Saints Day playing a part. The killing actually happened the next day. Japanese comics found in Raffaele Sollecito's possession had pictures of murdered female vampires which were eerily similar to the scene of the crime."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20081026/ai_n30949025/

Mignini apparently believes that the negative scrutiny he has received is the result of him actually pursuing a real cult that has been out to get him ever since he linked the Naducci suicide to Satanism and the Monster of Florence:

The Guardian, October 3, 2011

But his American detractors have claimed his investigation was a "railroad job from hell", starting from the moment he questioned Knox for hours without a lawyer, coaxing her into naming an innocent man, Patrick Lumumba, as the likely murderer, to his suggestion that Knox and Sollecito's slaying of Kercher was inspired by the occult.

The criticisms will have come as no surprise to a man who has strongly believed for years that opponents were secretly plotting his downfall.

Just before the final summing up in the Knox appeal began, Mignini discussed his handling of an older case, the "Monster of Florence" serial killer, and his belief that his investigation of the 1985 death of a freemason,Francesco Narducci, that he linked to the case was mysteriously blocked.

"I have felt under attack ever since I investigated Narducci," he told the Guardian. "It all started there."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/03/giuliano-mignini-knox-prosecutor-conspiracy

Mignini believed that the negative criticism he received in regards to the Knox prosecution was actually being driven by sources in Italy that were still after him and now exploiting the American media for their own purposes.

Mignini in court, October 19, 2008
(Translated by pmf nicki, posted there with pride.)

"They have attacked in an undignified manner, with total lack of arguments, and striking superficiality this Country's judicial system, the only one having jurisdiction on this matter. Amanda in listening, motionless. Even when Mignini says that "Nodoby in Italy would have done so much as denigrate and attack in such a shameless manner USA prosecutors. Moreover, Mignini says " no Italian journalist, nobody working in the judicial field would even dream to libel and slander an American prosecutor investigating an Italian suspect".

As if the message isn't clear enough, Mignini adds: " I am bewildered and shocked by this behavior. It is the first time-and I don't think it will even happen again- that I face such arrogance and superficiality. A minimum of experience and prudence should prevent these sketchy judgments, expressed from 9000 km distance. And all of this without even spending a word on the fact that the writs have been confirmed by the Tribunal of Riesame and the First Penal Section of the Supreme Court". According to Mignini, however, "the masterminds of these operations are in Italy".

 

[RoseMontague]

I posted this collection of CT quotes in the main AK thread but it seems like it should go here as well. For those unfamiliar with the case Machiavelli has been one of Knox's fiercest online detractors and a passionate supporter of the main prosecutor Mignini.

Must be a very big conspiracy too since Machievelli also thinks a conspiracy was behind Mignini's abuse of office conviction

It is almost paranoid these accusations about those evil Masons. Thanks for putting this one together.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Bohemian Grove

It is almost paranoid these accusations about those evil Masons. Thanks for putting this one together.

I am a litte worried about the Masons, also. I will have to speak to my fellow Moloch-worshippers at Bohemian Grove about this.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

I'll ask around the local Illuminati to see if they know anything. The multi-billion dollar PR supertanker and the platinum Lear jet that picked Amanda up from outside the courtroom certainly seem like their kind of deal.

Maybe the Masons asked for some help to take out Mignini? Or maybe the Knox family are in the Illuminati? I think I need to do some serious research, by which I mean trawling conspiracy theory web sites and credulously repeating everything I read.

 

[Bunntamas]

So why are the sober and factual Lockerbie discussions always consigned to the CT forum? (OK I know there are a couple of threads - mainly on Megrahi's release - in other areas, but there are always calls for them to be moved, and any post no matter how factual that pointed out his innocence was split off here at one time.)

Rolfe.

HAHHAHAHAHAHHA! Seriously? Suggest you look up the definition of evidence, which does not include Googleing and media blather. Anything other than that which is presented in a court room for adjucication is nothing but conspiracy theory. sorry.

Sorry to add to the derail here, but seems Mods tend to give Rolfe a "give", on major derailment in this forum so..... If I get ticketed based on these comments, well, I guess that says a lot for lack of unbiased moderation at JREF.

PS Rolfe, how's that petition coming for ya? Can't wait for Megrahi's book written by him whilst he was in a coma for two +/- years. Hope it includes Robert Black's lies in front of Parliament about "pouring rain" during the purchase of clothing packed around the bomb, not to mention the stolen cars (Red Ferrari / Range Rover, etc.) from Megrahi's home by alleged rebels. Poor Megrahi. Such an innocent and simple, dying man, convicted in a court of law (not to be confused w/ CTs) released on bail with only three months to live by Kenny Macaskill, and LIbyan $$$$ ...two years ago.

Cheers?

B.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

HAHHAHAHAHAHHA! Seriously? Suggest you look up the definition of evidence, which does not include Googleing and media blather. Anything other than that which is presented in a court room for adjucication is nothing but conspiracy theory. sorry.

The Knox guilters do their best to spin science and logic as "Googleing and media blather" too... fortunately here at the JREF forums the plurality of posters are able to tell the difference for themselves.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

conspiracy theories

HAHHAHAHAHAHHA! Seriously? Suggest you look up the definition of evidence, which does not include Googleing and media blather. Anything other than that which is presented in a court room for adjucication is nothing but conspiracy theory. sorry.

I do not believe that you presented a good definition of what a conspiracy theory is. To my way of thinking conspiracy theories should fulfill two conditions. One is that the belief in it is nonfalsifiable. The other is that it concerns a singular event (something that is not precedented).

 

[Rolfe]

It also avoids the question as to whether what is presented in court may itself be conspiracy theorising.

I have heard it argued that the Massei report had many of the characteristics of a conspiracy theory. I would also submit that the prosecution case at Zeist was in the same category in respect of the alleged smuggling of a bomb on board a flight at Malta, which necessitated the proposition that multiple uninvolved Christian (Catholic) Maltese citizens had conspired to facilitate this Islamic plot and falsify numerous documents so well that the whole thing was never detected.

Or as William of Occam might have suggested, the bomb was never there in the first place. But somehow, because it's the always-right prosecution who came up with the bizarre conspiracy and cover-up explanation, those advancing the rational explanation become the conspiracy theorists.

Rolfe.

 

[Kaosium]

HAHHAHAHAHAHHA! Seriously? Suggest you look up the definition of evidence, which does not include Googleing and media blather. Anything other than that which is presented in a court room for adjucication is nothing but conspiracy theory. sorry.

Sorry to add to the derail here, but seems Mods tend to give Rolfe a "give", on major derailment in this forum so..... If I get ticketed based on these comments, well, I guess that says a lot for lack of unbiased moderation at JREF.

PS Rolfe, how's that petition coming for ya? Can't wait for Megrahi's book written by him whilst he was in a coma for two +/- years. Hope it includes Robert Black's lies in front of Parliament about "pouring rain" during the purchase of clothing packed around the bomb, not to mention the stolen cars (Red Ferrari / Range Rover, etc.) from Megrahi's home by alleged rebels. Poor Megrahi. Such an innocent and simple, dying man, convicted in a court of law (not to be confused w/ CTs) released on bail with only three months to live by Kenny Macaskill, and LIbyan $$$$ ...two years ago.

Cheers?

B.

Did you know that Guiliano Mignini's picture ~3 years ago looks more like the sketch of the presumed Monster of Florence than 'Megrahi' does of the sketch that 'identified' him? Of course the age would be off by about 20 years.

..but wait...that's about how much the estimate of 'Megrahi's' age was off, wasn't it?

 

[Kaosium]

Mignini Trial

Mignini got himself a re-trial, the conviction against him is quashed and he will have to be tried again in Turin. Struck down on a technicality, not on the evidence.

I found this bit intriguing, his personal relationship with Maresca seems to extend to the Kercher lawyer accompanying him to trial in Florence. Dr. David Anderson, who lives in Perugia went to the trial along with Frank Sfarzo and others who saw him there with his hugging buddy and fellow conspiracy theorist Mignini.

There was even doctor David Anderson, who we met before, in the Perugia trial. If you ask him “Why are you here?” he answers “Because I’m interested in psychopathology”.
To complete the veterans group, Kercher’s lawyer Maresca came to give his usual moral support to his companion in disaster from Perugia.

 

[Rolfe]

I saw that on PMF. It appears the court didn't look at the evidence at all, but ruled that they didn't have jurisdiction so they couldn't try him? Is that right?

The PMFers speculated that he wouldn't be re-charged or re-tried, and the state would now drop the case, but I don't know whether that's just their usual wishful thinking. It seems they have to go right back to square one though, and given the speed of the legal process in Italy he'll probably be well past retirement age before a final conviction is ever handed down.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

Actually, something that was being said in the other thread is really more relevant to this one. Whether Massei really believed anything he wrote in his report.

Disclaimer - I have not read the Massei report, only the extracts people have posted in the forum. I agree these extracts are irrational, and self-evidently so. And this guy is a judge. What's that all about? I read the speculation about the order of the voting in Italian trials, pointing out that the lay judges vote first. So, by the time either of the professional judges votes, they could already have lost. In that case, do they cast a formal vote with the lay judges to avoid returning a split decison? I don't know.

The suggestion was that Massei may realise quite well the whole thing is a crock of nonsense, but was outvoted by the lay judges who had been influenced by Mignini's she-devil stuff, and the lies of the investigators. So he wrote an irrational motivation which could be seen to be nonsense, and which the court of second instance would have no trouble overturning.

This would suggest no "conspiracy" as implied by the thread title. Does the theory fly? If Massei had believed Knox and Sollecito to be innocent, would he have continued to remand them in custody?

(There have been simlar speculations about the juduicial bench at the Camp Zeist trial, where again an irrational Opinion was published, with a string of maybes held together by circular reasoning invoked to support a conviction. It's been suggested these judges expected to be overturned on appeal, but then the defence brought the appeal on the wrong grounds, and the whole thing went from bad to worse. However, people on the inside who know these judges don't generally subscribe to that theory.)

Rolfe.

 

[RoseMontague]

I saw that on PMF. It appears the court didn't look at the evidence at all, but ruled that they didn't have jurisdiction so they couldn't try him? Is that right?

The PMFers speculated that he wouldn't be re-charged or re-tried, and the state would now drop the case, but I don't know whether that's just their usual wishful thinking. It seems they have to go right back to square one though, and given the speed of the legal process in Italy he'll probably be well past retirement age before a final conviction is ever handed down.

Rolfe.

Frank says it is jurisdiction as well but to me it is more a question of venue. Can Mignini get a fair trial from Florence judges when two Florence judges were supposedly "damaged" by his actions?

The investigation run by Mignini and Giuttari had possibly damaged two Florence judges. So, the defense argued that the court of Florence had no “competence” on the case, since local judges were involved.

Then we have the case of Sabrina and Cosima Misseri, scheduled for trial in Avetrana, where Avetrana is itself a civil party against them, with Avetrana judges. The Supreme Court ruled that the fact that the locals are against them means nothing even if they are a civil party in the proceedings, the judges are still fair and impartial even if they are local judges, and denied a pretty slam dunk case for a change in venue.

Go figure.

I believe PMF is correct. The charges will likely be allowed to expire due to the statute of limitations, Mignini is almost home free.