The Massei/Mignini Conspiracy Theory

[platonov]

????????????????????????????

platonov,

Your comment did not make sense to me before when applied to the subsequent break-ins, and it has not bettered with age. What salient piece of information did I omit? The answer of coincidence is a non sequitur.

Your call, but you are not kidding anyone (not even yourself I think)

Stand in front of a mirror (like in the movies aimed at impressionable teenagers) and repeat the estate agents mantra !

Can't help you any further.

ps Not that this issue is of much/any import in any case - still one wonders ?????????????
???????????????????????????? why an honest MoJ argument should require such relentless mendacity on such inconsequential (and easily checked) issues.

 

[Kaosium]

Kaosium,

The issue of whether the rock was thrown from the outside is not quite the same as the issue of whether Guede entered through the broken window. Nevertheless, I was reading one of Candace Dempsey's blog entries, and she noted the fact that there had been subsequent break-ins and that the owner had put bars over what had been Filomena's window. Coincidence? I report, you decide.

Heh...I must say, I recall reading through pages and pages of people trying to maintain that window was impossible to enter. From some angles it looks difficult, but once that one of the lawyer reaching up there was posted I was astonished that people still argued it--but they did! It made me wonder if a belief in guilt is in some way connected to one's strength to mass ratio?

 

[Kaosium]

You seem to have omitted a very salient piece of info regarding the [subsequent ? ] break-in's. Coincidence

Not for the first time probably. In any case lets drop this rock issue/staged break in - you are getting nowhere ( worse than that - you are highlighting yet again the mendacious nature of your arguments). On planet earth the issue is settled.

Platonov, have you ever noticed how weak the 'staged' break-in argument is? I didn't pay it much mind, as after seeing that picture of the lawyer dude reaching up there it pretty much discredited those who thought it 'impossible' to scale, but I read through Katody Matrass' and Katy-Did's arguments because I like their style, and I enjoyed perusing Machiavelli's posts on the subject because he uses such interesting words sometimes. 'Interlocutor'--I like that one, I haven't found a use for it yet though.

However, in the evidence based world, what props this portion of your conspiracy theory up? The 'no glass on the ground' they didn't photograph, the 'no marks on the wall' that Dan-O shows has a mark anyway, the nail that isn't broken, (like it had to be?) and most of all the 'glass on top of the clothes' which not only wasn't photographed, it required an un-taped witness interview to change a witnesses' story.

I was reading elsewhere the other day, and something struck me about a poster who posted in this thread, and I think it might apply to you as well. He was saying that because the 'staged' break-in had passed through so many courts on the way to the trial, it was like a 'done deal' in his mind. I got to thinking that might make sense, except for one thing: it assumes that those previous courts did any more 'investigating' than they did for Patrick Lumumba, or for that matter the whole of the cases of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito which allowed them to be tried in the first place, the 'evidence' for which has totally evaporated by now.

They gundecked it, Platonov. That's what happens when you take an overworked, understaffed institution and force them into situations where things have to be done. That's the Italian Court system, it just may slow to the rate of molasses in January, but it still has to be done--down and dirty the way things go when you're always 'in a bind 'cuz you're way behind.' They didn't do due diligence, they just pencil-whipped it. 'Staged break-in?' Check. 'Glass on top of clothes? Fine. We'll write that down. Fine.'

Pass the buck, clear the docket, start again.

To more pressing issues ....

I see from a recent online headline (and this forum) that D Trump's efforts to expose the CT behind Obama's place of birth has finally borne fruit - in a manner of speaking.

IIRC there was great excitement among the Foakers at one stage that Trump was also looking into and throwing his weight behind the other great CT of our times - 'The Plot to Frame Amanda Knox'.
Now a cynic might say there are more votes and exposure in the "that ****** wernt born in the US" demographic than the "purty american gal railroaded by furner's" - although doubtless this is some overlap.

Nevertheless, when can we expect Trump to reenter the fray to put to rights the latter CT ?


Indeed, should he become Prez, the 101st MAM can be stood down (I hear training continues at a remote western location) and either US 'soft power' or Special Forces will save the day.

Too late, the statute of limitations has long passed on me cringing over Trump pandering to GOP primary voters. I saw that more than a week ago, I've recovered, you have to strike when the iron is hot! However, I think you could take Kermit's post to them and get many new converts, some of them go in for that kind of thinking, and there is nothing stupider than the whole 'Birth Certificate' debacle, you might be able to 'elevate their thinking' with a better conspiracy theory! I tried (elsewhere) to nip this one in the bud, walls of text were posted! However the propensity for some people to believe anything about those they dislike/disagree with knows no bounds!

I gave you a song to go with your new accent though.

 

[Kaosium]

platonov,

I plan to vote for Trump because the country is bankrupt, and no one has more personal experience with bankruptcy than Trump does. Plus a boycott against Italy, would prevent me from buying expensive Italian olive oil until Amanda is back in Seattle, thus helping our balance of trade figures.

This was really funny!

Some of that olive oil is outrageously expensive!

 

[platonov]

<snip>


Too late, the statute of limitations has long passed on me cringing over Trump pandering to GOP primary voters. I saw that more than a week ago, I've recovered, you have to strike when the iron is hot! However, I think you could take Kermit's post to them and get many new converts, some of them go in for that kind of thinking, and there is nothing stupider than the whole 'Birth Certificate' debacle, you might be able to 'elevate their thinking' with a better conspiracy theory! I tried (elsewhere) to nip this one in the bud, walls of text were posted! However the propensity for some people to believe anything about those they dislike/disagree with knows no bounds!

I gave you a song to go with your new accent though.

Really - You must have an inside source like London Johns spook friend

The birth cert was only released 2 ? days ago and I posted on it yesterday !

So the Q stands..

Nevertheless, when can we expect Trump to reenter the fray to put to rights the latter CT ?

Of course should Trump not prevail on this the 101st MAM will be able to apply to LJ for some advice given his links to the mysterious world of the 'dark arts'.

What song ? Was it as good as 'Gunters'

ETA - Oh I see. A link to a song.

 

[LondonJohn]

Really - You must have an inside source like London Johns spook friend

The birth cert was only released 2 ? days ago and I posted on it yesterday !

So the Q stands..

Nevertheless, when can we expect Trump to reenter the fray to put to rights the latter CT ?

Of course should Trump not prevail on this the 101st MAM will be able to apply to LJ for some advice given his links to the mysterious world of the 'dark arts'.

What song ? Was it as good as 'Gunters'

ETA - Oh I see. A link to a song.

Anything to say about the convictions of Knox and Sollecito? What time do you think the time of death was, for example? Or, what do you think of "superwitness" Curatolo's credibility or reliability now? Or, do you think it's credible that Nara Capezzali heard Meredith Kercher's "harrowing scream of death" at around 11.30, when virtually nobody else (including Curatolo and the hundreds of other people in the vicinity) didn't report hearing a thing? Or, what do you think about the safety of the knife and bra clasp DNA evidence now? Or even what do you think about the CPJ activities on behalf of Frank Sfarzo, and the allegations underpinning them?

Thanks in advance! (Or not, as the case may be.....)

 

[Kaosium]

Really - You must have an inside source like London Johns spook friend

::uff:::

"If people were to know the things that I know...it would all fall apart."

::uff:::



(tongue firmly in cheek!)

The birth cert was only released 2 ? days ago and I posted on it yesterday !

I was referring to this thread. More than a month ago now. I actually didn't hear that the BC was released, that shows how much I care these days. There's the NFL draft going on this weekend, obviously much more important than particularly silly politics. We 'reached' for a Tackle in the first, got a short WR in the second and a good 'value' pick in the third, unfortunately at RB, a position we didn't really need a high pick at.

So the Q stands..

Nevertheless, when can we expect Trump to reenter the fray to put to rights the latter CT ?

He won't have to, by the time the election comes about Amanda and Raffaele will be happy and free, international celebrities--if they want it. I wonder where Platonov will be when that happens? Will you own up to the fact you wuz fooled by some corrupt cops, a decaying and byzantine judicial institution and a few dozen kooks on the internet? Or will you descend into total madness, convinced that 'shadowy forces' forced the hand of the Italians and let an unrepentant 'murderess' go free?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Of course should Trump not prevail on this the 101st MAM will be able to apply to LJ for some advice given his links to the mysterious world of the 'dark arts'.

So it's Kooksville Forever for Platonov then?

What song ? Was it as good as 'Gunters'

ETA - Oh I see. A link to a song.

I gave you another one!

FNORD!

 

[Kaosium]

Anything to say about the convictions of Knox and Sollecito?

Tragic miscarriages of justice.

What time do you think the time of death was, for example?

9:15-9:30 PM, a time that correlates with the lack of content in the duodenum and the phone records.

Or, what do you think of "superwitness" Curatolo's credibility or reliability now?

Utterly discredited by the 'fact' he saw disco buses, the implausibility of his story seeing Raffaele and Amanda just hanging around for something like three hours that night, that he was admittedly on heroin and that was the third murder case he was a 'witness' for in about five years.

Or, do you think it's credible that Nara Capezzali heard Meredith Kercher's "harrowing scream of death" at around 11.30, when virtually nobody else (including Curatolo and the hundreds of other people in the vicinity) didn't report hearing a thing?

No, and I don't even think Nara knows what time and possibly day she heard that scream--if she actually heard it at all.

Or, what do you think about the safety of the knife and bra clasp DNA evidence now?

'Safely' slipping down the banks of the Tiber until their final resting place in the mud at the bottom.

Or even what do you think about the CPJ activities on behalf of Frank Sfarzo, and the allegations underpinning them?

Finally! I've been wondering for six months when people would notice.

Thanks in advance! (Or not, as the case may be.....)

How did I do? I give Platonov permission to copy my answers if he wants a better grade!

 

[LondonJohn]

Tragic miscarriages of justice.



9:15-9:30 PM, a time that correlates with the lack of content in the duodenum and the phone records.



Utterly discredited by the 'fact' he saw disco buses, the implausibility of his story seeing Raffaele and Amanda just hanging around for something like three hours that night, that he was admittedly on heroin and that was the third murder case he was a 'witness' for in about five years.



No, and I don't even think Nara knows what time and possibly day she heard that scream--if she actually heard it at all.



'Safely' slipping down the banks of the Tiber until their final resting place in the mud at the bottom.



Finally! I've been wondering for six months when people would notice.



How did I do? I give Platonov permission to copy my answers if he wants a better grade!

I think you've pretty much covered it I won't hold my breath for any kind of apposite response from the person to whom I addressed the post though.

I see the strange mob are now calling for a "public inquiry" into the allegations of Sfarzo and Preston against Mignini and the Perugia police. They seem to think that this is the only way forward in sorting things out, and they also seem to be confident (for some reason) that Sfarzo's/Preston's allegations will crumble when exposed to the light in this way. Or is it merely that they have convinced themselves that this is the case? Time for some people to take a step back and contemplate, I think....

 

[Antony]

Will you own up to the fact you wuz fooled by some corrupt cops, a decaying and byzantine judicial institution and a few dozen kooks on the internet? Or will you descend into total madness, convinced that 'shadowy forces' forced the hand of the Italians and let an unrepentant 'murderess' go free?

Sadly, this isn't an unusual reaction from uninformed people when wrongful convictions are overturned - which is why one of the first tasks for Amanda's lawyers will be to take action against malicious media comment as soon as it becomes technically (as well as morally) libellous.

 

[Kaosium]

I think you've pretty much covered it I won't hold my breath for any kind of apposite response from the person to whom I addressed the post though.

I see the strange mob are now calling for a "public inquiry" into the allegations of Sfarzo and Preston against Mignini and the Perugia police. They seem to think that this is the only way forward in sorting things out, and they also seem to be confident (for some reason) that Sfarzo's/Preston's allegations will crumble when exposed to the light in this way.

'Calling' to who?

Or is it merely that they have convinced themselves that this is the case? Time for some people to take a step back and contemplate, I think....

Do you think any of them can? That's the part I don't 'get.' With all due respect to everyone involved, this should be a minor political issue. In the final analysis it's just about a court case in Italy, no one's self-worth should be on the line here. However I get the impression for some people it's become the sum totality of their being, and absolutely nothing will divorce them from that belief.

There's a moment in the first continuation thread, shortly after I started posting, where I just smiled at Col. Hall after he 'misinterpreted' something I'd written about that 'other body' thinking I was talking about FOA, Kestrel thought I was agreeing with him and gave me a talking to, but in reality I was utterly speechless. I'd just had the last questions I had on the case answered, what 'evidence' I could have missed when I researched it that was germane, and it came to me that some people had been posting on this for almost three years at that point and never figured it out. I couldn't think of what to say to someone who couldn't see what had become obvious to me.

Probably because of who I was posting to, it made me think of one of my favorite characters from the movies, Col. Nicholson of "The Bridge on the River Kwai." A heroic man with many fine qualities who did the wrong thing for all the 'right' reasons. Except at the end he finally realized what should have been obvious all along, his little 'morale boosting' project--while right and proper under the Laws of War he'd nearly died to instill--was in fact detrimental to the very cause he'd been fighting for.

I started to wonder if there would ever come a point where this 'Colonel' could realize what Nicholson did with his dying words: 'What have I done?' As I recall it's ambiguous whether Colonel Nicholson deliberately landed on the detonator plunger or if it was accidental, but I like to think it intentional and his last act of heroism.

I suspect the reason why I liked Colonel Nicholson so much was because he was such a unique character. I think I know what I would've posted now, if my fingers could find the right keys at the time:

"Madness! ... Madness!"



"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."

--Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[platonov]

'imperious demand for answers' - very well.

Anything to say about the convictions of Knox and Sollecito? What time do you think the time of death was, for example? Or, what do you think of "superwitness" Curatolo's credibility or reliability now? Or, do you think it's credible that Nara Capezzali heard Meredith Kercher's "harrowing scream of death" at around 11.30, when virtually nobody else (including Curatolo and the hundreds of other people in the vicinity) didn't report hearing a thing? Or, what do you think about the safety of the knife and bra clasp DNA evidence now? Or even what do you think about the CPJ activities on behalf of Frank Sfarzo, and the allegations underpinning them?

Thanks in advance! (Or not, as the case may be.....)

Your thanks in advance is misplaced as I have addressed these issues several times over in 'cartland' - the proper forum for such Q's where these issues have been done to death.

[For example I have stated my position (which really hasn't changed) on Curatolo's credibility - seek and ye shall find]

Indeed your own lack of response to my many corrections of your repeated 'misspokes' makes your imperious demand for answers appear unseemly !

But this is the CT forum and my earlier comments [which you appear to have taken issue with - I was in awe of your connections ] should clearly indicate how I think the appeal court and the SC will rule.




But on your final point a quick (and onetime*) comment ...

If CPJ wish to allow themselves to become involved in 'cases' where novelists\hacks or bloggers are using the murder of Meredith Kercher to further their 'careers' that's their call.
The list of articles above and below the Preston/Frank S 'story' is interesting and the juxtaposition quite reveaing.
In no particular order we have ...

- a five-year prison term in Vietnam
- Honduran radio director ambushed by gunmen
- Murder case of a journo in Russia
- Cameraman killed in El Salvador
- Haitian radio station destroyed in arson attack
- the death in state custody of a journo in Bahrain
etc etc etc

I have little to no interest - I have been much too cynical for far too long to be surprised. We shall see how it plays out - not to CPJ's credit I would imagine.

Meanwhile in the real world journalists continue to be silenced, intimidated and murdered on a regular basis.

I also see from their website Taras Protsyuk & Tareq Ayyoub, for example, are listed as killed in crossfire not murdered. No doubt CPJ are still investigating as their website claims, but its heartening to see they also have time to lend their name to this nonsense.
Indeed closer to home (yours in this case - lest we get moved to AAH again) their coverage of the murder of Martin O'Hagan seems very circumspect also.


* I still remember too well the protracted issue of 'waterboarding' being 'touchless coercion' to engage at length with mendacious arguments. Some of us actually have an interest in real MoJ's and state repression which are not in short supply and thus find these arguments both risible and offensive.

We now return you to your scheduled service.

 

[platonov]

Scheduled service resumed

Originally Posted by Kaosium
Will you own up to the fact you wuz fooled by some corrupt cops, a decaying and byzantine judicial institution and a few dozen kooks on the internet ? Or will you descend into total madness, convinced that 'shadowy forces' forced the hand of the Italians and let an unrepentant 'murderess' go free?

Sadly, this isn't an unusual reaction from uninformed people when wrongful convictions are overturned - which is why one of the first tasks for Amanda's lawyers will be to take action against malicious media comment as soon as it becomes technically (as well as morally) libellous.

Didn't we already have this and I responded here

ETA Kaosium, You are entitled to your opinion obviously but I take London John at his word regarding his connections

 

[Kaosium]

Didn't we already have this and I responded here

Leave Amanda Antony alone!

ETA Kaosium, You are entitled to your opinion obviously but I take London John at his word regarding his connections

So do I, except I mean it. How many times have I told you that you've everything backwards?

 

[Justinian2]

'Calling' to who?



Do you think any of them can? That's the part I don't 'get.' With all due respect to everyone involved, this should be a minor political issue. In the final analysis it's just about a court case in Italy, no one's self-worth should be on the line here. However I get the impression for some people it's become the sum totality of their being, and absolutely nothing will divorce them from that belief.

There's a moment in the first continuation thread, shortly after I started posting, where I just smiled at Col. Hall after he 'misinterpreted' something I'd written about that 'other body' thinking I was talking about FOA, Kestrel thought I was agreeing with him and gave me a talking to, but in reality I was utterly speechless. I'd just had the last questions I had on the case answered, what 'evidence' I could have missed when I researched it that was germane, and it came to me that some people had been posting on this for almost three years at that point and never figured it out. I couldn't think of what to say to someone who couldn't see what had become obvious to me.

Probably because of who I was posting to, it made me think of one of my favorite characters from the movies, Col. Nicholson of "The Bridge on the River Kwai." A heroic man with many fine qualities who did the wrong thing for all the 'right' reasons. Except at the end he finally realized what should have been obvious all along, his little 'morale boosting' project--while right and proper under the Laws of War he'd nearly died to instill--was in fact detrimental to the very cause he'd been fighting for.

I started to wonder if there would ever come a point where this 'Colonel' could realize what Nicholson did with his dying words: 'What have I done?' As I recall it's ambiguous whether Colonel Nicholson deliberately landed on the detonator plunger or if it was accidental, but I like to think it intentional and his last act of heroism.

I suspect the reason why I liked Colonel Nicholson so much was because he was such a unique character. I think I know what I would've posted now, if my fingers could find the right keys at the time:

"Madness! ... Madness!"



"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule." --Friedrich Nietzsche

Ain't that the truth!

Old Friedrich wasn't that bad. I think he was greatly misunderstood in his comments about supermen.

 

[Kaosium]

Ain't that the truth!

Old Friedrich wasn't that bad. I think he was greatly misunderstood in his comments about supermen.

If you're referring to the 'interpretation' of that by who I think you are, then let us remember the rationality level of those who were doing that 'interpreting.'

I think our good buddy Giuliano Mignini would know a different source for another quote "Nothing is true, everything is permitted."

Incidentally, Justinian, I've been thinking of this, who involved in this case is most in need of justice being served upon them?

Mignini is a popular candidate, Giobbi another, and of course the 'beautiful biologist' Stefanoni draws the ire of many, but I actually wonder if the one whose most due an all-expense paid 'vacation' at exotic Capenne is Monica Napoleoni? I think she might have started this mess, and while Mignini came up with the kooky theories, it might well have been her who was the impetus behind the scenes making sure things 'happened' that Mignini might never have done. Candace Dempsey says she took an immediately disliking to Amanda, and could well have poisoned Mignini's mind against her.

 

[Draca]

If you're referring to the 'interpretation' of that by who I think you are, then let us remember the rationality level of those who were doing that 'interpreting.'

I think our good buddy Giuliano Mignini would know a different source for another quote "Nothing is true, everything is permitted."

Incidentally, Justinian, I've been thinking of this, who involved in this case is most in need of justice being served upon them?

Mignini is a popular candidate, Giobbi another, and of course the 'beautiful biologist' Stefanoni draws the ire of many, but I actually wonder if the one whose most due an all-expense paid 'vacation' at exotic Capenne is Monica Napoleoni? I think she might have started this mess, and while Mignini came up with the kooky theories, it might well have been her who was the impetus behind the scenes making sure things 'happened' that Mignini might never have done. Candace Dempsey says she took an immediately disliking to Amanda, and could well have poisoned Mignini's mind against her.

Don't forget Profazio and De Felice. Their contenders baby, contenders !
Nice choice with Napoleoni !

We should make a list of Frank's pack.

 

[michellesings]

I am very interested in hearing your take as to how things "went down".

 

[platonov]

CT inflation getting out of hand

<snip>

Incidentally, Justinian, I've been thinking of this, who involved in this case is most in need of justice being served upon them?

Mignini is a popular candidate, Giobbi another, and of course the 'beautiful biologist' Stefanoni draws the ire of many, but I actually wonder if the one whose most due an all-expense paid 'vacation' at exotic Capenne is Monica Napoleoni? I think she might have started this mess, and while Mignini came up with the kooky theories, it might well have been her who was the impetus behind the scenes making sure things 'happened' that Mignini might never have done. Candace Dempsey says she took an immediately disliking to Amanda, and could well have poisoned Mignini's mind against her.

Don't forget Profazio and De Felice. Their contenders baby, contenders !
Nice choice with Napoleoni !

We should make a list of Frank's pack.

I know I posted earlier in Cartland that the beauty of any good CT is that it can expand to include new data or conspirators as the need arises but this CT inflation is getting out of hand.

You will have to change the thread title [again !] to a much longer one at this rate - or replace Mignini with Napoleoni at least

Why is she included - is this 'jealous cop' idea the reverse of Mary H's 'horny cops' argument or a natural [if misogynistic] progression.

Italian women hated AK for the same reason Italian men lusted after her - her beauty !
It's well known there are no good looking women in Italy and that might explain it - is that it ?

 

[PhantomWolf]

I know I posted earlier in Cartland that the beauty of any good CT is that it can expand to include new data or conspirators as the need arises but this CT inflation is getting out of hand.

You will have to change the thread title [again !] to a much longer one at this rate - or replace Mignini with Napoleoni at least

Perhaps you need to re-read the OP, the CT in the heading is a reference to a CT created by Massei and Mignini about how three people conspired to rape and murder Meredith Kercher. I do agree with you about how any good CT is that it can expand to include new data or conspirators as the need arises though, sort of like being able to swap in and out black guys without changing an ounce of the created story.

Why is she included - is this 'jealous cop' idea the reverse of Mary H's 'horny cops' argument or a natural [if misogynistic] progression.

I also have to agree that Napoleoni wasn't the one at fault here, the one I have the most issue with is Giobbi who was able to determine that AK was guilty based entirely on the fact that she was out eating pizza instead of being curled up in bed crying her eyes out like he believed she should be, then set out to prove it.