The Massei/Mignini Conspiracy Theory

MkUltra program

stilicho said:
What does this have to do with the conspiracy to frame Amanda? Who were the conspirators?

Names will suffice.
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The first name on the list has to be .........Amanda Knox
- if we take the later part of her testimony at face value.

Now the Q is .......is she part of the conspiracy against herself OR how did the cops manage to brainwash her into giving such self incriminating testimony in 2009.

Perhaps they had access to the MkUltra program thru Operation Gladio :eek: ??
 
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RoseMontague said:
So just where were the ones in charge of things during Amanda's interrogation?



http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2010/10/05/amanda-knoxs-secret-world/

I wonder what they were watching in that control room of theirs? Maybe staring at the wall or something?
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What do you think the control room is for? I was always under the impression that the control room is the room where emergency calls come in (among others) and from where the movement of individual police officers is ´controlled´ within their area of responsibility. As far as I´m aware, in-house recording of interviews/interogations is not part the normal activities of the control room. Perhaps you have something that could clarify this?
 
Katody Matrass said:
In your opinion, by the time of the all night interrogation, did the police have Amanda's phone logs already or didn't they? Did they know that the last phone activity on the night of murder was an SMS exchange with Lumumba?
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I am uncertain as to what records the police did have when questioning Amanda and Raffaele on the night of November 5/6, however, they had at least one set of phone records.

I tabulati telefonici esaminati dalla polizia postale si sono rivelati fondamentali per ricostruire gli spostamenti dei ragazzi.

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Verso le 23 mi ha chiamato sull'utenza fissa di casa mio padre.

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/07_novembre_07/meredith_verbali_sarzanini.shtml
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Is the second sentence above saying that Raffaele called his father at 23:00 or that his father called him?

Raffaele's father sent an SMS to Raffaele a bit after 23:00 but I do not think it was received on Raffaele's phone until the next morning. I do not think there was a talking phone call between the two at 23:00.
 
stilicho said:
I don't know and neither do you. We do know that the police did not question Patrick before Knox told them that he killed Meredith. As we now know, Amanda also had cell phone contact before and after her murder to a cocaine pedlar. Did they interview that individual before the evening of 05 NOV 2007?

There is so far no evidence whatsoever that the Perugia police conspired to frame Amanda. If they knew everything about the phone logs and wanted to "get" someone, they'd have gone after Amanda's drug dealer and not her boss.
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Knox exchanged texts with Lumumba on the night of the murder. AFAIK, she did not have any kind of telephone contact with any other person on that crucial night. So whom do you think the police might have been focussing upon? A person with whom Knox had communicated on the night of the murder, or any of the other people with whom she'd had no reported contact on the night of the murder.

Oh. and who was "Amanda's drug dealer"? I assume you're not referring here to someone who was convicted of drug selling offences some three years after Knox was placed into custody, and whose only alleged connection to Knox at the moment is that his number is alleged to have been in her cellphone memory?

I feel sure that this can't be the person you're casually referring to as "Amanda's drug dealer", because that would be a pretty dreadful example of bias and poor deductive reasoning that would ill befit the arguments of someone calling themselves a sceptic...
 
platonov said:
The first name on the list has to be .........Amanda Knox
- if we take the later part of her testimony at face value.

Now the Q is .......is she part of the conspiracy against herself OR how did the cops manage to brainwash her into giving such self incriminating testimony in 2009.

Perhaps they had access to the MkUltra program thru Operation Gladio :eek: ??
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They beat her within an inch of her life and did the equivalent of water boarding her while depriving her of sleep and asking her questions.
 
LondonJohn said:
Knox exchanged texts with Lumumba on the night of the murder. AFAIK, she did not have any kind of telephone contact with any other person on that crucial night. So whom do you think the police might have been focussing upon? A person with whom Knox had communicated on the night of the murder, or any of the other people with whom she'd had no reported contact on the night of the murder.

Oh. and who was "Amanda's drug dealer"? I assume you're not referring here to someone who was convicted of drug selling offences some three years after Knox was placed into custody, and whose only alleged connection to Knox at the moment is that his number is alleged to have been in her cellphone memory?

I feel sure that this can't be the person you're casually referring to as "Amanda's drug dealer", because that would be a pretty dreadful example of bias and poor deductive reasoning that would ill befit the arguments of someone calling themselves a sceptic...
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You can't believe Amanda's guilty and be a sceptic?
 
Hi, stilicho!
First of all, let me ask you again that simple yet crucial question: what was it that the cops anticipated and Amanda confirmed on the night and early morning of Nov 6?

stilicho said:
I don't know and neither do you.
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I'm quite certain :cool:, but OK, let's speculate. Doesn't it look more plausible to you? Since by 5 Nov they already had Amanda's phone wiretapped, they used Raffaele's phone logs in his interrogation, is it possible they still had no logs of Amanda's cellphone? Common sense?

stilicho said:
We do know that the police did not question Patrick before Knox told them that he killed Meredith.
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OK, it doesn't mean they had no eye on him.

stilicho said:
As we now know, Amanda also had cell phone contact before and after her murder to a cocaine pedlar. Did they interview that individual before the evening of 05 NOV 2007?
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Stilicho, stilicho, stilicho...

I'd really like to think that such argument comes from ignorance, but you're so active about this case for so long, here and on PMF that it's hard to believe you have no knowledge about Amanda's phone activity on Nov 1. You know very well that basically the whole day of Nov 1 her phone was not in use, until Patrick sent her a SMS after 8 pm and she responded. And right after that her phone went "off the grid". And right after that Meredith died. You really think it wouldn't attract cops' attention?

Where is that other, even more alarming cellphone contact, that you and the PMF's "plausible bunch" "now know" about?



stilicho said:
There is so far no evidence whatsoever that the Perugia police conspired to frame Amanda.
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Exactly, everything points to a misinterpreted phone logs and other evidence, that led cops to succumb to their confirmation bias and tunnel vision. No conspiration, just a failure.


Finally, little hope but worth trying:
what was it that the cops anticipated and Amanda confirmed on the night and early morning of Nov 6?
 
christianahannah said:
I am uncertain as to what records the police did have when questioning Amanda and Raffaele on the night of November 5/6, however, they had at least one set of phone records.



Is the second sentence above saying that Raffaele called his father at 23:00 or that his father called him?

Raffaele's father sent an SMS to Raffaele a bit after 23:00 but I do not think it was received on Raffaele's phone until the next morning. I do not think there was a talking phone call between the two at 23:00.
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Thanks, christianahannah, you're invaluable!
I think it would be "I called my father", but anything I can reconcile it with is a call from his father on the landline on Oct 31.
 
Katody Matrass said:
Thanks, christianahannah, you're invaluable!
I think it would be "I called my father", but anything I can reconcile it with is a call from his father on the landline on Oct 31.
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That is what I thought, also.

Raffaele's father called him about 22:00 or so on October 31, however, Raffaele did call his father back at 00:02 on November 1. Either call could be the call Raffaele is stating in the article. It could be he confused the date of the call(s).
 
LondonJohn said:
Knox exchanged texts with Lumumba on the night of the murder. AFAIK, she did not have any kind of telephone contact with any other person on that crucial night. So whom do you think the police might have been focussing upon? A person with whom Knox had communicated on the night of the murder, or any of the other people with whom she'd had no reported contact on the night of the murder.

Oh. and who was "Amanda's drug dealer"? I assume you're not referring here to someone who was convicted of drug selling offences some three years after Knox was placed into custody, and whose only alleged connection to Knox at the moment is that his number is alleged to have been in her cellphone memory?

I feel sure that this can't be the person you're casually referring to as "Amanda's drug dealer", because that would be a pretty dreadful example of bias and poor deductive reasoning that would ill befit the arguments of someone calling themselves a sceptic...
Click to expand...

What was reported was that not only was his number in her phone, but that their numbers were in contact both before and after the murder. That's a bit different from the way you put it. It doesn't prove that she bought any (or sold any), but it's not very skeptical of you to misrepresent this, is it?
 
bucketoftea said:
What was reported was that not only was his number in her phone, but that their numbers were in contact both before and after the murder. That's a bit different from the way you put it. It doesn't prove that she bought any (or sold any), but it's not very skeptical of you to misrepresent this, is it?
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Where was it reported that Knox called this person before and after the murder?
 
LondonJohn said:
Where was it reported that Knox called this person before and after the murder?
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Charlie has indicated that both the prosecution and the defense team have Amanda's phone records and no such calls were made. It is a false claim, and not even one made by the prosecution, the name of the person making this claim has still not been published that I have seen.
 
Amazer said:
What do you think the control room is for? I was always under the impression that the control room is the room where emergency calls come in (among others) and from where the movement of individual police officers is ´controlled´ within their area of responsibility. As far as I´m aware, in-house recording of interviews/interogations is not part the normal activities of the control room. Perhaps you have something that could clarify this?
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I don't think Giobbi came down from Rome to sit in on some routine calls about some homeless vagrant sleeping on a park bench. He surely would want to see the interrogation. That is just common sense. There were a dozen cops there so I am sure there were plenty around to handle the large number of calls they were getting at 1:45AM. Frank's recent post on this would be a good place to start. Taping is routine.
 
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How can you know no such calls were made? You know the number? Was the defense interested? was the prosecution interested?
 
Amazer said:
What do you think the control room is for? I was always under the impression that the control room is the room where emergency calls come in (among others) and from where the movement of individual police officers is ´controlled´ within their area of responsibility. As far as I´m aware, in-house recording of interviews/interogations is not part the normal activities of the control room. Perhaps you have something that could clarify this?

RoseMontague said:
I don't think Giobbi came down from Rome to sit in on some routine calls about some homeless vagrant sleeping on a park bench. He surely would want to see the interrogation. That is just common sense. There were a dozen cops there so I am sure there were plenty around to handle the large number of calls they were getting at 1:45AM. Frank's recent post on this would be a good place to start. Taping is routine.
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Not what I asked for.... but alright.

No, i don't think that Giobbi came down from Rome to monitor routine calls either, especially if you keep in mind that its a 2 hour drive from Rome to Perugia. But i think that he just wanted to oversee the interview from close by. I don't think it's necessary that he really wanted to 'see' the interview itself.

I don't read Franks blog. His writing style annoys me to no end.

As for taping being routine. It's become clear that suspect interrogations are routinely taped. You haven't quite made that case for witness interviews though.
 
Amazer said:
Not what I asked for.... but alright.

No, i don't think that Giobbi came down from Rome to monitor routine calls either, especially if you keep in mind that its a 2 hour drive from Rome to Perugia. But i think that he just wanted to oversee the interview from close by. I don't think it's necessary that he really wanted to 'see' the interview itself.

I don't read Franks blog. His writing style annoys me to no end.

As for taping being routine. It's become clear that suspect interrogations are routinely taped. You haven't quite made that case for witness interviews though.
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Mignini stated that Laura's and Filomena's interviews were taped. According to him that's because those interviews were in his office and he made sure they were recorded. In the case of Amanda, he only addressed the 5:45AM statement claiming they forgot in all the confusion but did not address why the 1:45AM was not taped. He actually was careful not to address that one at all, in my opinion.
 
bucketoftea said:
How can you know no such calls were made? You know the number? Was the defense interested? was the prosecution interested?
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Again, where was it reported that such calls were made. By whom was it reported, and with what attribution? Thanks in advance.
 
RoseMontague said:
Mignini stated that Laura's and Filomena's interviews were taped. According to him that's because those interviews were in his office and he made sure they were recorded. In the case of Amanda, he only addressed the 5:45AM statement claiming they forgot in all the confusion but did not address why the 1:45AM was not taped. He actually was careful not to address that one at all, in my opinion.
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That's fairly easy to answer.... the interview that ended at 1:45 wasn't taped because it did not take place in Mignini's office.
 
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