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The Marijuana Conspiracy

Horatius said:
You do realize that "Democracy" and "Constitutional Republic" are not mutually exclusive terms, right?
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http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/repvsdem.htm

"In a republic the sovereignty is in each individual person. In a democracy the sovereignty is in the group."

"The distinction between our Republic and a democracy is not an idle one. It has great legal significance.
The Constitution guarantees to every state a Republican form of government (Art. 4, Sec. 4). No state may join the United States unless it is a Republic. Our Republic is one dedicated to "liberty and justice for all." Minority individual rights are the priority. The people have natural rights instead of civil rights. The people are protected by the Bill of Rights from the majority. One vote in a jury can stop all of the majority from depriving any one of the people of his rights; this would not be so if the United States were a democracy. (see People's rights vs Citizens' rights)

In a pure democracy 51 beats 49[%]. In a democracy there is no such thing as a significant minority: there are no minority rights except civil rights (privileges) granted by a condescending majority. Only five of the U.S. Constitution's first ten amendments apply to Citizens of the United States. Simply stated, a democracy is a dictatorship of the majority. Socrates was executed by a democracy: though he harmed no one, the majority found him intolerable."

BIG DIFFERENCE!!!
 
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Sledge said:
I bet he doesn't. This is probably how FotLers get started.
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When people try to blur the distinct conflict in those two terms they become unwitting tools for the image makers. Those FOTLers are well aware of this, and they seem very dangerous to you. Wonder why? LOL

http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q2/bernays.html

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society," Bernays argued. "Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. . . . In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons . . . who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind."

AMEN EDDIE, you'd be so proud of your work if you came here to JREF. Educated semi-intelligent beings turned to a virtual pile of pro government mush by you and yours. LOL
 
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Dandyone said:
When people try to blur the distinct conflict in those two terms they become unwitting tools for the image makers. Those FOTLers are well aware of this, and they seem very dangerous to you. Wonder why? LOL

http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q2/bernays.html

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society," Bernays argued. "Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. . . . In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons . . . who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind."

AMEN EDDIE, you'd be so proud of your work if you came here to JREF. Educated semi-intelligent beings turned o mush by you and yours. LOL
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List ten things you want to be able to do you can't in america.
 
sadhatter said:
List ten things you want to be able to do you can't in america.
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I'd be a bad example as I know the system and its pitfalls pretty well and luckily have managed to steer clear of it for the most part. I pay the protection racket (IRS) enough to keep them from imprisoning me and stealing the rest of my property. Millions however have not been so fortunate and are locked up in prisons. I'm sure they could give you a nice list. Write to a prison and see if you can contact someone who's locked up for tax evasion or marijuana for years. They'll give you a list.
 
Dandyone said:
I'd be a bad example as I know the system and its pitfalls pretty well and luckily have managed to steer clear of it for the most part. I pay the protection racket (IRS) enough to keep them from imprisoning me and stealing the rest of my property. Millions however have not been so fortunate and are locked up in prisons. I'm sure they could give you a nice list. Write to a prison and see if you can contact someone who's locked up for tax evasion or marijuana for years. They'll give you a list.
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So your saying you can't think of 10 things that you want to do but cant, i would say that states your living in a pretty good part of the world. Ask the same question to someone living in a third world country and see how long it takes them.

And we are not talking about anyone but you, the tax evader and dealing in question arn't here on the forums making a stink. Don't try to derail the question because you can't come up with an answer.
 
Dandyone,

In a republic I would want my representatives to enact legislation to regulate drug use, production, and distribution. In a direct democracy (even one with consitutional protections for minorities) I would personally vote in favor of particular proposals to regulate drug use, production, and distribution.

What would you do? Would you have any regulations on this?

I ask again:

  • What age restrictions would you favor for marijuana use?
  • Would you support laws against people using that drug while they are operating an automobile or other heavy equipment?
  • Would you favor prohibitions on the smoking of marijuana inside public buildings?
  • What do you think of limits on how close to the entrance of a public building one can smoke it?
  • Should there be health and safety regulations for commercial growers? (For example, regarding pesticides and their effects on farm workers)
  • Should there be location restrictions and licensing requirements for retail stores? (For example, no "package" stores next to schools.)

And as for the state and federal governments decriminalizing marijuana, they probably would not do so unless it could be taxed and regulated. Don't forget that politics is the art of the possible.
 
GreyArea said:
Dandyone,

In a republic I would want my representatives to enact legislation to regulate drug use, production, and distribution. In a direct democracy (even one with consitutional protections for minorities) I would personally vote in favor of particular proposals to regulate drug use, production, and distribution.

What would you do? Would you have any regulations on this?

I ask again:

  • What age restrictions would you favor for marijuana use?
  • Would you support laws against people using that drug while they are operating an automobile or other heavy equipment?
  • Would you favor prohibitions on the smoking of marijuana inside public buildings?
  • What do you think of limits on how close to the entrance of a public building one can smoke it?
  • Should there be health and safety regulations for commercial growers? (For example, regarding pesticides and their effects on farm workers)
  • Should there be location restrictions and licensing requirements for retail stores? (For example, no "package" stores next to schools.)

And as for the state and federal governments decriminalizing marijuana, they probably would not do so unless it could be taxed and regulated. Don't forget that politics is the art of the possible.
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I like your questions and i would like to try my hand with them.

1. 19, same as alcohol where i live.

2. Yes, but as of now there is no roadside test for pot use. Which is one of the major hurdles to be overcame before legalization.

3. Yes and no. Anywhere but a bar, yes, a bar no. But then again i think the smoking bans are silly in bars. But only in bars.

4. A lot farther than smoking. Because despite what some people would say a contact high does happen. Now how likely is that in a relatively open area, not very but i don't want to force my state of mind on others. And if said public building isn't a bar, well i think the people should be able to say " not on my property.

5. Yes, quality standards and safety for consumers should be taken into account as well.

6. Yes, and not just the kind for smoking, more like the kind of laws that govern alcohol.

And obviously as per my other posts, taxes and whatnot need to be instituted so the government dosn't have to take one for the team when it comes to revenue that is lost.

Now i can't wait to compare my answers to the rest of the class.
 
I wonder just that kind of Government that Dandyone would find acceptable.
It probably does not exist.
I suspect we are dealing with a "I am not a Anarchist but" here.Someone who denies he is a Anarchist but who rejects every form of Government anyone suggests.
 
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I'd be a bad example as I know the system and its pitfalls pretty well and luckily have managed to steer clear of it for the most part. I pay the protection racket (IRS) enough to keep them from imprisoning me and stealing the rest of my property. Millions however have not been so fortunate and are locked up in prisons. I'm sure they could give you a nice list. Write to a prison and see if you can contact someone who's locked up for tax evasion or marijuana for years. They'll give you a list.
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But they aren't here complaining. You are. So what are 10 things you'd like to do in America that you can't do right now?
 
dudalb said:
I wonder just that kind of Government that Dandyone would find acceptable.
It probably does not exist.
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He seems like the type of person that wants to be able to do anything he wants whenever he wants, not pay taxes, and still receive the benefits that a tax collecting society gives.

So in other words the only time he would be happy is as a dictator.

To gain benefits from society you need to give society things. But some people simply don't realize this.
 
Elizabeth I said:
But they aren't here complaining. You are. So what are 10 things you'd like to do in America that you can't do right now?
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Tell james this counts as my pleminary test.

He is right now attempting to come up with 10 vague things like. Have freedom, not be oppressed, have a functioning government, etc.

Or he is just going to avoid the question.

I'll be waiting for my check.
 
jaydeehess said:
Tell me, what gov't expenditures would you agree on?
military?
Social Security?
roads, water works, and other public infrastructure?
law enforcement and the judiciary ( enforcing for instance the laws banning theft and murder)
regulation of all aspects of air travel including airport security, ATC, aircraft safety?
regulation of anti-pollution laws?
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sadhatter said:
List ten things you want to be able to do you can't in america.
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,,,,,,,and what do we hear in response?
"let's change the subject"

Come on D.O. you complained about taxes and the IRS but you will not commit to even one gov't agency or program that you think just might be a good idea (such as having and enforcing laws concerning theft and murder and a judicial system for dealing with them).
In addition you cannot come up with examples of what you would want to be able to do but are prevented from doing in the USA, let alone compare such a list with any other country on the planet.
 
jaydeehess said:
,,,,,,,and what do we hear in response?
"let's change the subject"

Come on D.O. you complained about taxes and the IRS but you will not commit to even one gov't agency or program that you think just might be a good idea (such as having and enforcing laws concerning theft and murder and a judicial system for dealing with them).
In addition you cannot come up with examples of what you would want to be able to do but are prevented from doing in the USA, let alone compare such a list with any other country on the planet.
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I always wished there was a button that would make it so a poster could only post in one thread until a question was answered. Make the number of people required be very high so it isn't abused, but i always thought that would be a nice feature.

Damn near impossible to implement properly, but a good idea none the less.
 
Dandyone said:
http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/repvsdem.htm

"In a republic the sovereignty is in each individual person. In a democracy the sovereignty is in the group."

"The distinction between our Republic and a democracy is not an idle one. It has great legal significance.
The Constitution guarantees to every state a Republican form of government (Art. 4, Sec. 4). No state may join the United States unless it is a Republic. Our Republic is one dedicated to "liberty and justice for all." Minority individual rights are the priority. The people have natural rights instead of civil rights. The people are protected by the Bill of Rights from the majority. One vote in a jury can stop all of the majority from depriving any one of the people of his rights; this would not be so if the United States were a democracy. (see People's rights vs Citizens' rights)

In a pure democracy 51 beats 49[%]. In a democracy there is no such thing as a significant minority: there are no minority rights except civil rights (privileges) granted by a condescending majority. Only five of the U.S. Constitution's first ten amendments apply to Citizens of the United States. Simply stated, a democracy is a dictatorship of the majority. Socrates was executed by a democracy: though he harmed no one, the majority found him intolerable."

BIG DIFFERENCE!!!
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Hmmm, so I believe that marijuana should remain illegal. Perhaps the punishment should be less but that's a different story.

You believe that MJ should be allowed.

How does the fact that we have diametriccaly opposing views fit with your interpretation of 'natural rights'? After all if I have my way you claim tyranny of the majority while if you get your way I can claim tyranny of the minority.

I believe that gov't should administer universal health care and I am willing to pay taxes to fund it. I daresay that in my country, Canada, that view is the overwhelming majority but if we take your 'tyranny of the majority' to heart then we are disabusing a minority of their natural rights.

I have personnaly had occassion to be quite thankful that I have gov't health care.
 
Well heck I'll reply as a Dandone clone

1. I want complete freedom from all taxes
2. I want the freedom to have my SSN check doubled or if I have a government or private pension I don't want the government to prevent me from having them doubling it, LOL
3. I want to have the freedom to remove all sin laws - no age limits for drinking,driving or sexual activity
4. I want the freedom to have no military at all but just a militia
5. I want the freedom to make the government admit they know about aliens
6. I want the freedom to make the government admit they know about cities on Mars
7. I want the freedom to shoot my ex-wife
8. I want the freedom to shut down the Federal Reserve
9. I want the freedom to live in a country that is capitalistic but has no corporations
10. I want the freedom to say whatever I want while preventing those I don't agree with to say anything
11. I want the freedom to have our children taught to think like me
12. I also want the freedom to count 12 as 10
 
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sadhatter said:
He seems like the type of person that wants to be able to do anything he wants whenever he wants, not pay taxes, and still receive the benefits that a tax collecting society gives.

So in other words the only time he would be happy is as a dictator.

To gain benefits from society you need to give society things. But some people simply don't realize this.
Click to expand...

And to make it loonier, he seems to be a big fan of Vladamir Putin and the current Russian Government, which is not exactly a model of freedom,consdiering how so many people opposed to Putin and his Puppets end up. Read his comments here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167497&page=7

Never ceases to amaze how many of these FOTL/Miltia type seem to be drawn to Authoritarian leaders.
 
Hans said:
Well heck I'll reply as a Dandone clone

1. I want complete freedom from all taxes
2. I want the freedom to have my SSN check doubled or if I have a government or private pension I don't want the government to prevent me from having them doubling it, LOL
3. I want to have the freedom to remove all sin laws - no age limits for drinking,driving or sexual activity
4. I want the freedom to have no military at all but just a militia
5. I want the freedom to make the government admit they know about aliens
6. I want the freedom to make the government admit they know about cities on Mars
7. I want the freedom to shoot my ex-wife
8. I want the freedom to shut down the Federal Reserve
9. I want the freedom to live in a country that is capitalistic but has no corporations
10. I want the freedom to say whatever I want while preventing those I don't agree with to say anything
11. I want the freedom to have our children taught to think like me
12. I also want the freedom to count 12 as 10
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#12 is awesome, it got me laughing.
 
dudalb said:
And to make it loonier, he seems to be a big fan of Vladamir Putin and the current Russian Government, which is not exactly a model of freedom,consdiering how so many people opposed to Putin and his Puppets end up. Read his comments here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167497&page=7

Never ceases to amaze how many of these FOTL/Miltia type seem to be drawn to Authoritarian leaders.
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Well if they had their way the world would turn into anarchy pretty quick so i guess it makes sense. I mean when the lights are off and there are roving bands of freemen wandering america scavenging from vending machines, i would rather have a leader that could kick butt than think clearly.
 
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