The Khamis Brigade Shed Massacre

[jargon buster]

Well then I'll just clarify this thread's not for you.

Ok well I will just clarify that its not your decision if the threads for me or not.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Ok well I will just clarify that its not your decision if the threads for me or not.

Fair 'nuff. I mean only you'll get things you don't care about in this thread, to the extent it's defined by me anyway. Maybe someone else will go off topic on car racing or whatever it is that does get your interest. You never know.

Also, it'd be pretty quiet if not for your frequent one-liners, so thanks.

ETA for anyone who cares enough to question me or want to double-check anything on the witnesses: I'll be citing many things, and it's too tedious to pull all the sources/links together. Original sources are all beneath the big witness list, although it's a little sloppy ATM and might be missing some bits.
http://libyancivilwar.blogspot.com/2011/09/tripoli-massacres-53-skeletons-witness.html
ETA 2: I seem to have just now blanked out the whole thing. Laughing in my face might be appropriate. I have a backup of most of it...

 

[jargon buster]

and it's too tedious to pull all the sources/links together.

If its tedious , why do you bother?

 

[Caustic Logic]

If its tedious , why do you bother?

...

 

[jargon buster]

I think you just killed your own thread

 

[tsig]

I wasn't so sure before but the last line tips me off you're not really an extremely callous and socially comatose person. Rather, I think this is just a a tactic for me, to make me give up and shut up in hopelessness. The last thing you ever wanted to hear about Libya was "the good guys won, yay rebel flag, and all is cool!"

Am I right?

Well, it's not cool. Ignore the thread if you don't want to hear any more about that. It's on you, not me, to enforce your happy little ending.

Why assume that anyone wanted to hear anything about Libya?

I understand that the Romans committed some pretty horrendous atrocities but I don't see what can be done about them now.

 

[Caustic Logic]

jb: No, I finally went to sleep. Got two more parts coming, the last one being the best.

tsig: The world was generally pretty into it for a while there.

Can you explain the significance of the Rome comment?

 

[Caustic Logic]

I see I'll need to work the"wedon't care" angle a little more.

As I said earlier, the names of many of those staffing the Yarmouk base, some of whom may have actually escaped, are on file with agencies. They're also in the hands of armed rebel fighters. One of those confessed it all to PHR under the pseudonym "Laskhar." Othersare probably in captivity. I'm not sure if the new national forces are much less brutal and deceitful than the hordes who swept through in August.

When we started the war against Libya's old government, it was based on rumors and justified by "responsibility to protect." Better: "Responsibility to Panic." A holocaust!!!

Never again!!! What's happening now is almost certainly persecution of the innocent (Gaddafi-supporting or suspected scum) to protect fictitious victims (the martyrs of the shed, national holiday for them coming up). Pretty much what it was to begin with, but now the perceived good guys have the clear upper hand across the land. Now the perceived villains, the grenade killers of Yarmouk, are the humans with no rights to be disappeared in silence, and coincidentally it's all just so booooooring now.

Or, how many of you were already bored back in March, or when? This is really puzzling me. Thanks.

 

[jargon buster]

pssst.. no one cares.

 

[Caustic Logic]

pssst.. no one cares.

Pssst... you don't speak for everyone. Psych out fail #what, 20 now? Why do you keep trying to shut me down if you do so "don't care?"

 

[jargon buster]

Because my mate set fire to those guys in the shed.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Because my mate set fire to those guys in the shed.

lol, just as I thought!

 

[Caustic Logic]

pssst.. no one cares.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/...-government-must-investigate-gaddafi-massacre

Global Post reports the other day “New Libya needs justice and accountability”
Opinion: After Gaddafi, Libya must investigate suspected war crimes committed by all sides.
Richard SollomJanuary 12, 2012 13:03

... alleged war criminals from all sides of the recent conflict remain at large, however, and must be brought to justice. Holding these individuals accountable is the most effective way to end impunity and establish the rule of law.

But he specifies no rebel crimes and only named one such person, the commander of the Yarmouk base, framed by the rebels to give themselves impunity for another of their slaughters, with the assistance of fakers and easily-duped Human Rights groups.

One whom Libyan authorities should detain and hold accountable is Lt. Col. Mansour, who ordered his troops to kill 153 men in late August.

With a team of forensic experts from Physicians for Human Rights, I investigated this massacre by Gaddafi’s 32nd Brigade soldiers. We interviewed four eyewitness survivors as well as one of the alleged perpetrators, conducted medical evaluations of surviving detainees, and assessed the crime scene using forensic methods. … we provide the first comprehensive forensic account of the massacre and produce evidence of torture, rape, and summary executions of these detainees.

Forensics! They verified that "Mohammed" and "Ali" had injuries, not where they were sustained. That came down to misplaced trust in the men's words.

They found some 9 mm bullets, no real mention (that I noticed) of the gobs of Kalashnikov shells there should be, nor of any study of the hanger for grenade shrapnel and its signs. The bodies were surely gone before they had their look. They missed the surrounding victims, 34 or more, nearly everyone of them a black-skinned man. They don't know the clues for an early rebel victory there, suggesting almost exactly the given massacre date.

They missed the contradicting dates their two escapees gave for the massacre, but noted how both of these witnesses corroborate each other on how heroic guard "Mustafa" tried to help them escape but failed. That's neat, but no other witnesses recalled that guy. Mustafa Abdullah El Hitri alone, among the 20 others, cites a different guard, Abdul Razaq, who helped differently and succeeded. No one else recalled Abdul Rezak.

Anyway, they're doctors, and so perceived as both credible and good. And because "no one cares," they're trying to raise the alarm that some loyalist guy needs to be hunted down. Global Post was un-enthused enough about it all to give them some space.

 

[funk de fino]

Isn't there enough on Syria to get you going again? Or can you not make up any CT on that yet?

 

[Caustic Logic]

3) The Witnesses, Dr. Salem and Atiri

Skip middle installment of further needless displays of eyewitness accounts falling apart consistently,to the really CT part.

Left: a real-life witness to the loyalist massacre, local man Dr. Salim Rajub, with kind words for Tripoli Medical Center. Right, Dr.Salem al-Farjani of Tripoli Medical Center, private investigator of loyalist massacres. Shortly after testifying under a half-false name, he was appointed to help the whole government head its national missing persons commission and solve crimes including this one. Speciality: knowing people, saying things, acting? His co-chair was a DNA expert named Othman.
AP article on Farjani's crusade
http://libyancivilwar.blogspot.com/2011/12/tripoli-massacres-dr-salem-al-farjani.html

Sky News, 1st take, escaped witness not ready
Sky News, take two, escapee el Hirtri/Atiri is ushered in by "Dr. Salim."

This same witness had just been taken in, after escaping, by a local construction worker of the same age name Ahmed al-Farjani (no image available), who saved the kid from brainwashed loyalists. The Doctor's full name flanks this guy in two witnesses, one at least fake.
http://libyancivilwar.blogspot.com/2012/01/khamis-brigade-shed-massacre-dr-salm-mr.html
el Hitri photo to verify
el Hitri is called Atiri in this version, description matches video and photo("a big man in a sweaty orange polo shirt with enormous, haunted eyes"), account and name, mostly, matches el Hitri.

Coached by "Dr. Salim." His arm, I think, is seen in a photo, taken just before Stuart Ramsay (Sky News) arrived, of someone gesturing to explain something to el Hitri.

El Hitri/Atiri saw Khamis Gaddafi there personally ordering the whole thing. [source] Sky News reported on his mentor:

Anchor: And they were begging to get this investigated interationally.
Ramsay: Absolutely. The ICC was the first thing that the gentleman ["Salim"] who was talking to me in with fantastic English said: please please get this investigated. The ICC is going to have a huge amount of work to do here...

But without a lick of work, they were eager within a couple of days to issue an arrest warrant for Khamis over what these two entwined people had said to the media.

wearing his shirt:

Photo, Nov. 30, a bit leaner and beardier - a weak disguise? He points his chin down more these days as well, and avoids the alligator shirt.

The main expert PHR got their info from? "HR expresses its sincere gratitude to Dr. Mohamed Othman and Dr. Salem Al-Fergani for their inestimable support in carrying out this investigation."
The earlier photo of Ban Ki Moon I linked to, and the video of Moreno-Ocampo visiting the site - this faker was their tour guide both times, after the beard.
UN Press Release

After being briefed on the incident in the warehouse by Salem al Ferjani, the acting Chairperson of the National Missing Persons Commission, the Secretary-General told the group he was profoundly shocked by what he had seen and heard. He said "no one cares."

Video - al Farjani speaking in Dr.Rajub's English

 

[Caustic Logic]

Isn't there enough on Syria to get you going again? Or can you not make up any CT on that yet?

I'm sure there's plenty and I'm sure I could. Why do you ask?

Anyone think the NTC's new co-director of matching identities of "the missing" with anonymized massacre victims is NOT a faker? Please offer an alternate explanation for Dr. Rajub and/or Mr. al Farjani if so.

 

[Caustic Logic]

No? Or just not yet?

Here's a question for the forum or the mods perhaps if they happen to see it.

No one has argued this case of mine is wrong, that there was no conspiracy to fake a huge massacre to cover-up a war crime. It's only of matter of whether it matters or interests anyone. So, if I take this to Social Issues as a valid case for concern requiring investigation is possible, and someone says it's a silly CT, take it to CT, I want to be able to say "just came from there. It's peer reviewed. It's a current event. It's news."

So the question is, is there any standard around here of what lets a theory out of the CT ghetto? Just my word? Acknowledgment from any number of members won't be happening, it seems. The sound of crickets feels like vindication to me. People usually love to tear up things that are wrong, or that they even think are wrong. But here, it's all been about how to not engage the issue at all (other than Jack by the Hedge, of course). Big Brother would be very proud of the rest of you.

Another day or two without challenge and I'm calling it won, and taking it to higher levels.

 

[jargon buster]

Another day or two without challenge and I'm calling it won, and taking it to higher levels.

Take it now, why wait?
Its already been said that you are pushing at a open door.
No one here seems to be arguing you are wrong, its just that no one here seems to think anything you can do will make any difference.
If it floats your boat go for it.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Take it now, why wait?

1) There might still be something to come of the pre-shift discussion here
2) Other things to do in the meantime anyway

Its already been said that you are pushing at a open door.
No one here seems to be arguing you are wrong, its just that no one here seems to think anything you can do will make any difference.
If it floats your boat go for it.

Different tone from before. Nothing I can do is way different from doesn't matter. Even when people try to knock holes in it, the boat stays afloat. No problem there. Cheers.

 

[jargon buster]

Nothing I can do is way different from doesn't matter. Even when people try to knock holes in it, the boat stays afloat. No problem there. Cheers.

Even if there is something you can do it still doesn't matter to me as i have already said I couldn't care less.
I was actually trying to make you feel better about wasting an unbelievable amount of time on something I think even you know you cannot have any influence on.

Has it not occurred to you yet no one has tried to knock holes in it?