The Jan. 6 Investigation

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acbytesla said:
My question to Warp and Thermal and Prestige is do you think it is right that Trump should get away with this? That he is and should be above any accountability?
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I don't think Trump, or anyone else, should "get away" with breaking the law.

But that is up to the courts to decide. If he is charged and subsequently convicted, I can accept that. If he isn't convicted of a crime, it is a non-issue to me.
 
digger said:
If you parse everything out finely enough you can find an excuse to ignore the obvious. By why are you bothering?

Trump incited a seditious riot on Jan 6. He also derelicted his sworn duty to protect and defend the constitution of the United States by not responding to that riot with his official powers or his bully pulpit. This was done to further his own seditious plot to prevent the peaceful transfer of power, in which he committed several other crimes including conspiring with foreign powers and coercing election officials.

All of this is obvious, level 1, fact. It's just what happened. The only interesting question in all of this, is why so many people are pettifogging the issue, and why he hasn't been held accountable for any of it.
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I relinquish to no one a greater hatred, disgust, and horror for the Orange Menace and how he basically broke American democracy (given that the Rpubs had been trying to twist the lid off for - well, for ever - and they loosened it pretty well). I can't wait for the day of his perp-march. The dancing in the streets will resemble the day the election was called for Biden.

The question I was responding to was a very narrow legal question, and I'm not a lawyer, but I did my best to try to figure out what would be a violation of a specific law that was referenced. Just one law. Not all the other laws Trump has broken.

You can not take that and turn me into being some kind of apologist for *anything* Trump has done. Except maybe for that one time he didn't step on that one flower at the White House, but even then he was probably just distracted by something and meant to anyway.
 
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acbytesla said:
I get what Trump apologists do.

I just have to wonder if they have truly thought about it? Is Trump himself worthwhile to abandon some very important principles that make the country a better place? Do they really think the country is better off with the toilet tweeter? That the rule of law shouldn't apply to our leaders? That POTUS should be allowed to attempt a coup de etat and suffer no consequences?

Do they think Trump should be made King? That elections don't matter anymore?
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I suspect they're more going for the legacy. Most of them probably despise Trump but figure a bad king is worth the price if they and theirs get to be the next kings after. Today's messes can be cleaned up later. Just the way they treat the climate crisis.
 
acbytesla said:
I get what Trump apologists do.

I just have to wonder if they have truly thought about it? Is Trump himself worthwhile to abandon some very important principles that make the country a better place? Do they really think the country is better off with the toilet tweeter? That the rule of law shouldn't apply to our leaders? That POTUS should be allowed to attempt a coup de etat and suffer no consequences?

Do they think Trump should be made King? That elections don't matter anymore?
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Republican POTUSes only, but otherwise yes, they do. To all of that. A thousand times yes. There's a term for Republicans who place their principles or their country over their party: "former Republicans."
 
Warp12 said:
I don't think Trump, or anyone else, should "get away" with breaking the law.

But that is up to the courts to decide. If he is charged and subsequently convicted, I can accept that. If he isn't convicted of a crime, it is a non-issue to me.
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Courts are us. People are tried by juries. And just because some people are not convicted that doesn't mean they didn't get away with it. Some people get convicted and they didn't do it.

My question to you is do you think that Trump incited an insurrection? Is there reasonable doubt? Do you think one sentence of him saying "peacefully" negates the planning and the scheming as well as an hour and a half of urging his supporters to fight and commit combat. Followed by three hours of silence and inaction.

And I'm not just talking about the riots. That he and his advisors attempt to overturn the Presidential election and remain in power? Is that acceptable to you?

If you're a juror, do you find there is REASONABLE doubt? Or do you find him guilty?
 
acbytesla said:
Courts are us. People are tried by juries. And just because some people are not convicted that doesn't mean they didn't get away with it. Some people get convicted and they didn't do it.

My question to you is do you think that Trump incited an insurrection? Is there reasonable doubt? Do you think one sentence of him saying "peacefully" negates the planning and the scheming as well as an hour and a half of urging his supporters to fight and commit combat. Followed by three hours of silence and inaction.

And I'm not just talking about the riots. That he and his advisors attempt to overturn the Presidential election and remain in power? Is that acceptable to you?

If you're a juror, do you find there is REASONABLE doubt? Or do you find him guilty?
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reasonable doubt? yes
 
bruto said:
I suspect they're more going for the legacy. Most of them probably despise Trump but figure a bad king is worth the price if they and theirs get to be the next kings after. Today's messes can be cleaned up later. Just the way they treat the climate crisis.
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Not all messes can be cleaned up later. You can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. Eliminate democracy in America and I guarantee the vast majority of people will get a hell of a lot poorer.
 
Warp12 said:
I would say, based on no charges being brought forth as of yet, I am not the only one who has a reasonable doubt.
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I don't believe that's the reason for a second.

It's the fear that people like you will deny the obvious. That the facts won't matter. That people will make excuses. Excuses they wouldn't make for others. Trump himself said it. He could shoot someone in broad daylight and they wouldn't convict him.

We saw it with the Republicans during two impeachment trials. The prosecutors are afraid of that.

The evidence in this case is overwhelming and you are saying there is reasonable doubt. That you would say that is a joke.

Yes, he threatened to kill the victim, yes hundreds of people saw the gun in his hand fire ten bullets into the victim. But I'm sure that nice Mr Trump didn't intend to kill him. Not Guilty.
 
acbytesla said:
I don't believe that's the reason for a second.

It's the fear that people like you will deny the obvious. That the facts won't matter. That people will make excuses. Excuses they wouldn't make for others. Trump himself said it. He could shoot someone in broad daylight and they wouldn't convict him.

We saw it with the Republicans during two impeachment trials. The prosecutors are afraid of that.

The evidence in this case is overwhelming and you are saying there is reasonable doubt. That you would say that is a joke.

Yes, he threatened to kill the victim, yes hundreds of people saw the gun in his hand fire ten bullets into the victim. But I'm sure that nice Mr Trump didn't intend to kill him. Not Guilty.
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How many people does your conspiracy theory involve?
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Start ******* believing it.
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But I don't believe them. It's not like they're looking at the evidence blindly like Lady Justice is portrayed. This is about Trump being their guy and finding any excuse to let him off the hook. Trump is the rich white OJ.
 
Warp12 said:
How many people does your conspiracy theory involve?
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I don't think it's a theory.

But my guess is hundreds of individuals were involved. 57 Republicans have been identified in the fake elector scheme. There were more than a hundred Congressional representatives that are suspect. But the one person all these individuals have in common is Trump.
 
acbytesla said:
I don't think it's a theory.

But my guess is hundreds of individuals were involved. 57 Republicans have been identified in the fake elector scheme. There were more than a hundred Congressional representatives that are suspect. But the one person all these individuals have in common is Trump.
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No, I mean the conspiracy to not charge Trump.
 
acbytesla said:
I don't believe that's the reason for a second.

It's the fear that people like you will deny the obvious. That the facts won't matter...
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I agree with you. The facts won't matter and they'll deny, be blind, to the obvious. How do they justify this, justify it in their own minds? What's the thought process? I don't believe there is any thought process. It's all pure reaction. When you try and reason with them, they treat it like it's all a big joke. It's sad, but they just aren't the brightest bulbs in the chandelier. :thumbsup:
 
Warp12 said:
No, I mean the conspiracy to not charge Trump.
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I don't think that's a conspiracy. I think that unless it is so obvious and so egregious that the prosecutors think even individuals like you are likely to convict, they are hesitant to charge.
 
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